Vick or Kolb

[Black Jesus]

You don't think the Eagles would bite for a 2nd round pick?

I think they would have to for half a season of a QB that is going to leave for FA.

 

[chickenhead]

As a FAN, there's too much downside to Vick for me. If we don't go to the playoffs with him, or if he ultimately resembles his career average, I will hate having to cheer for him. But the Eagles are not going to trade him right now, and even if they do this year, I don't see the Cards wanting him as a partial season rental if he's determined to test the FA market at season's end.

 

[Russ Smith]

Dog fighting wouldnt be an issue if there were not dog lovers.

Yah, it is sad, but so are animals in a zoo, rats fed to pet snakes, deer/elk hunted for game, etc..

I have much more of a problem with Ben Roethlisberger, Eric Green (disturbing), Chmura, Ray Lewis, Marvin Harrison, and other human crimes than I do Mike Vick.

Well sure but you didn't start a thread saying the Cards should get any of those other guys, you mentioned Vick or Kolb. That's why those of us who despise what Vick did, are bringing it up.

I agree Big Ben's off field stuff is awful, wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole.

I would add though virtually everyone saying Vick did his time avoids the obvious, he only did it because he got caught. Vick lied repeatedly until he couldn't lie anymore, then suddenly he was sorry for his actions?

 

[Southpaw]

They is only one player in the NFL I cheer for when they get hurt that would be the scum known as Vick

My list would contain Ben Ratlisberger. Only one of the reasons to dislike the Steelers as a whole.

 

[BigRedRage]

Well sure but you didn't start a thread saying the Cards should get any of those other guys, you mentioned Vick or Kolb. That's why those of us who despise what Vick did, are bringing it up.

I agree Big Ben's off field stuff is awful, wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole.

I would add though virtually everyone saying Vick did his time avoids the obvious, he only did it because he got caught. Vick lied repeatedly until he couldn't lie anymore, then suddenly he was sorry for his actions?

you can make the argument that anyone who has a conviction wouldnt have stopped if they were never convicted.

 

[Russ Smith]

you can make the argument that anyone who has a conviction wouldnt have stopped if they were never convicted.

I agree, that's why I don't necessarily buy that someone who served their time is "reformed". Hell evidence says many aren't, very high rate of re-arrest.

The point is Vick only reformed when he was forced to, when originally caught he lied, repeatedly. I just don't see that as being a sign of anything changed beyond he got caught. Same with Ben btw, wouldn't want him either.

I realize it's football not choirboy practice but I would have a hard time cheering for Vick in a Cards uniform.

 

[cardsloco]

I don't understand why people like dogs so much. They're really an annoyance and an inconvenience. They bark, they slobber, they lick, they shed hair all over the place, they don't clean themselves and thus stink, they don't use a litter box, they are high maintenance--always having to be walked and let outside at all hours of the night. You can't go on long day trips or overnight trips without having to ask someone to burden themselves taking care of your dogs while you're gone. And dog food is expensive.

I've always been a cat person. They're quiet, they take care of themselves, they sleep most of the day, they're independent and go to the bathroom by themselves and even cover their own mess. You can go away for a couple of days and let them have free roam of the house and not have to worry. They're lovable and cuddly without being intrusive. They don't need to be walked or let out in the middle of the night and if they sleep with you, they don't take up half the bed, and they don't snore.

That said, dogfighting is stupid and wrong; and the whole point of this thread is moot because the Eagles are not going to consider trading Vick or Kolb. Vick's contract is up at the end of the season and then I'm sure we will have a few dozen "We should sign Michael Vick" threads. I'll pass. He doesn't fit Whiz' style IMO.

Cats are awesome! They let people rob your house as they watch. They lick their own fur including their azz, and then promptly throw up a hairballs on your floor. They use your furniture for a scratching post and ignore you when you call them. Nothing is better then a the smell of cat urine when you walk into someones house. It is easy to knock someones choice of pet.

 

[BigRedRage]

I agree, that's why I don't necessarily buy that someone who served their time is "reformed". Hell evidence says many aren't, very high rate of re-arrest.

The point is Vick only reformed when he was forced to, when originally caught he lied, repeatedly. I just don't see that as being a sign of anything changed beyond he got caught. Same with Ben btw, wouldn't want him either.

I realize it's football not choirboy practice but I would have a hard time cheering for Vick in a Cards uniform.

I can agree to disagree, best I would ever give to that. Ben was raping women, Vick was fighting dogs. I believe raping women is much worse. Fighting dogs I understand why people are against it however I do not see that as a violent crime.

We are bloodthirsty individuals, we watch stunts and crazy things all while deep down hoping they fail and get hurt so we can see it, whether we notice the feeling or not it is why we watch. Boxing, MMA, all that stuff, we want to see you knocked out. Training animals to do the boxing for you seems like a novel idea but a lot of side affects to it have deemed it being frowned upon by society.

On the other side of the globe people eat dogs as food, we dont hate them for it.

 

[Sandan]

Is the point about eating and storing, or is it about inhuman treatment of animals? Is the outcome or reasons really the issue? I don't think so.

You can't point fingers and have selective outrage if our habits allow inhuman treatment to happen to other animals. That's the real issue.

I am an animal lover and have several pets ( 1 dog, 2 cats and various birds) but I don't mistake the value of a pet to a human life. That's the bottom line for me.

That's your prerogative but for me yes I can single out dogs as being special [not that I condone inhumane treatment to any living thing], that's my prerogative

 

[crisper57]

Even if we could go get one of these guys, I think the trade deadline is tomorrow. I doubt we have time to pull the trigger, especially since one Andy Reid can't make up his mind about which one he wants to keep. We'll ride or die with Max this year.

 

[john h]

We need one of them. Get it done.

This hometown Max Hall thing is cute and all, but the Seahawks are for real now with Marshawn.

I think Vick would be interesting as a playmaker, his #7 is readily available.

Do it before we watch the division slip away.

The coach says Vick is the starter. Period. Well, if Kolb has another game like he had this week come next week the coach might give that a second thought. This sort of shows why it is really nice to have a backup QB that can play. I doubt either Kolb or Vick is available unless you make an offer they cannot refuse. I would love to have either one of them. Vick is a game changer with his running ability but his running can also get him hurt. Our QB can run a bit and he learned that it hurts to try and run over two big line backers at the goal line. We still do not know what we have in Hall. He may be all world next week or may throw 3 interceptions? At least if he goes down we have a guy who has played in the NFL and was actually an All Star. Yes Anderson is better than our third stringer no matter how much you trash him.

It appears to me that this year there is a shortage of good QBs and even the good QBs are playing at a lower level. Brett Favre is absolutely amazing. He is older than dirt and has started in something like 265 consecutive games. How any-one's body can survive that long and still play at his level is beyond understanding. He has already putt Randy Moss to good use. He really looked like he was playing in some real pain this week after a couple of big hits. He managed to get to his feet a couple of times and complete passes. What on earth has happened to the Cowboys? Jerry Jones must be out of his mind by now. They were picked as one of the favorites for the Super Bowl. The 49ers were also picked as the star of our division so they lose 4 in a row. The NFL East is a crazy conference and almost anyone can win. Ever who stays healthy is the winner. The Saints really miss their star RB. I suggest that is what is wrong with them. Trying to cover him out in the flat takes a couple of guys and then he is still likely to break one.

I still cannot believe we are 3-2 and just beat the Saints and remain in first place. Will the real Cardinals come out from behind the curtain? Like in the Wizard of Oz we do not know who is behind the curtain and pulling the levers?

 

[Russ Smith]

I can agree to disagree, best I would ever give to that. Ben was raping women, Vick was fighting dogs. I believe raping women is much worse. Fighting dogs I understand why people are against it however I do not see that as a violent crime.

We are bloodthirsty individuals, we watch stunts and crazy things all while deep down hoping they fail and get hurt so we can see it, whether we notice the feeling or not it is why we watch. Boxing, MMA, all that stuff, we want to see you knocked out. Training animals to do the boxing for you seems like a novel idea but a lot of side affects to it have deemed it being frowned upon by society.

On the other side of the globe people eat dogs as food, we dont hate them for it.

Agreed you won't find me defending Ben, remember when they shortened his suspension I started a thread disagreeing with it.

however you're kind of glossing over what Vick actually did. He wasn't just involved in dog fighting, which is illegal, he was involved in illegal gambling on dog fights(which he financed). He broke state and federal law, he lost a huge portion of his contract because the gambling connection violated terms of his NFL contract, not the dog fighting part the gambling part.

Back in January because of the freedom of information act they released more details on Vick's involvement in the case. He didn't just pay the money and bet on the fights. People involved with him said he personally drowned dogs, shot dogs and killed them with a shovel. Vick had testified that dogs injured in fights were killed to be humane, he didn't mention they were drowned or killed with a shovel or hung.And people involved in the fighting ring claimed that dogs who weren't seriously injured were sometimes killed too, because they lost a fight.

Then we have the DEA agent who testified that in 2006 he heard Vick at a party talking about his fondness for HGH, nothing to do with dogfighting but again it's against NFL rules and again Vick denied it, personally I'm inclined to believe the DEA agent over Vick.

People act like he just dabbled in this, he was so into it he actually bought a property specifically to create a "kennel" to do dog fights. They were doing this from 2002 to 2007, when they got caught, this wasn't some fad, he loved doing it.

 

[desertdawg]

Agreed you won't find me defending Ben, remember when they shortened his suspension I started a thread disagreeing with it.

however you're kind of glossing over what Vick actually did. He wasn't just involved in dog fighting, which is illegal, he was involved in illegal gambling on dog fights(which he financed). He broke state and federal law, he lost a huge portion of his contract because the gambling connection violated terms of his NFL contract, not the dog fighting part the gambling part.

Back in January because of the freedom of information act they released more details on Vick's involvement in the case. He didn't just pay the money and bet on the fights. People involved with him said he personally drowned dogs, shot dogs and killed them with a shovel. Vick had testified that dogs injured in fights were killed to be humane, he didn't mention they were drowned or killed with a shovel or hung.And people involved in the fighting ring claimed that dogs who weren't seriously injured were sometimes killed too, because they lost a fight.

Then we have the DEA agent who testified that in 2006 he heard Vick at a party talking about his fondness for HGH, nothing to do with dogfighting but again it's against NFL rules and again Vick denied it, personally I'm inclined to believe the DEA agent over Vick.

People act like he just dabbled in this, he was so into it he actually bought a property specifically to create a "kennel" to do dog fights. They were doing this from 2002 to 2007, when they got caught, this wasn't some fad, he loved doing it.

This.

 

[Sandan]

On the other side of the globe people eat dogs as food, we dont hate them for it.

Care to take a bet on how I feel about that ?

 

[Black Jesus]

I don't care what anyone thinks about it the dog thing.

He was wrong, he paid his debt, he was killed by the media and fans..
Get over it.

The dog vs. cat argument on here is just lame, go to a PetsMart forum and duke that one out.

We need a starting QB. End of story. Max Hall is an absolute joke and we should be embarrassed for entertaining him as a serious option.

Vick is done dog fighting... TRADE FOR HIM

 

[Mulli]

I think it is a bigger joke to think the Cards have any interest whatsoever, so what is the point?

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't care what anyone thinks about it the dog thing.

He was wrong, he paid his debt, he was killed by the media and fans..
Get over it.

The dog vs. cat argument on here is just lame, go to a PetsMart forum and duke that one out.

We need a starting QB. End of story. Max Hall is an absolute joke and we should be embarrassed for entertaining him as a serious option.

Vick is done dog fighting... TRADE FOR HIM

Even if we completely ignore for the moment what a despicable human being Vick was before he got caught, do you really believe he's beyond reproach now?

That's the key question for any team that trades for him because you have to realize that Vick is on speed dial with the commish now and ANY perceived screwup can result in a suspension, any serious screwup will result in an expulsion. So you're not just trying to determine if Vick is a good enough QB to pay whatever it would cost to trade for him, you have to determine if he's a good enough PERSON to take the risk of trading for him.

That's why all the things in his past are still relevant. The marijuana thing, the DEA agent who said Vick was telling people at a party he loved HGH, all the other things Vick apparently has done at some point, any one of which would get him suspended or expelled from the NFL if he's caught doing it again.

Aside from just personally not liking the guy I think there's a pretty inherent risk of trading for him, right now if I were a betting man, like Vick, I'd put my money on him screwing up again.

 

[Sandan]

I don't care what anyone thinks about it the dog thing.

He was wrong, he paid his debt, he was killed by the media and fans..
Get over it.

This is your opinion, not all share it. He wasn't killed by anybody [unlike his dogs] he just lost some money in the short term

 

[Black Jesus]

Even if we completely ignore for the moment what a despicable human being Vick was before he got caught, do you really believe he's beyond reproach now?

That's the key question for any team that trades for him because you have to realize that Vick is on speed dial with the commish now and ANY perceived screwup can result in a suspension, any serious screwup will result in an expulsion. So you're not just trying to determine if Vick is a good enough QB to pay whatever it would cost to trade for him, you have to determine if he's a good enough PERSON to take the risk of trading for him.

That's why all the things in his past are still relevant. The marijuana thing, the DEA agent who said Vick was telling people at a party he loved HGH, all the other things Vick apparently has done at some point, any one of which would get him suspended or expelled from the NFL if he's caught doing it again.

Aside from just personally not liking the guy I think there's a pretty inherent risk of trading for him, right now if I were a betting man, like Vick, I'd put my money on him screwing up again.

If he were to mess up, we are right back where we started. I, for one, think he will be fine.

 

[Black Jesus]

This is your opinion, not all share it. He wasn't killed by anybody [unlike his dogs] he just lost some money in the short term

Nidan, we get it. You like dogs. Take some of your 6 +posts a day here where people care.
http://www.pets.com/community

 

[Joe L]

This is your opinion, not all share it. He wasn't killed by anybody [unlike his dogs] he just lost some money in the short term

It's not an opinion, the court dealt the punishment and he paid in full. The media made more of this crime than any other player who killed or harmed a HUMAN BEING. That isn't opinion, that is a fact. He lost all of his future earnings as well as go through bankruptcy. Out of all the players convicted, he paid the biggest price. Mind you, part of that had nothing to do with the actual killing of the dogs, it was a federal charge (interstate dog fighting) that carried a lot more weight than the actual killing of the dogs.

You'd be surprised at how little time an person or owner will do for killing a dog or dogs.

Like I said, I am a dog lover, animal lover but you shouldn't get the electric chair for something like this. The court dealt the punishment and as soon as he walked out a free man, he paid his debt to society. No ifs and buts about it.

 

[Black Jesus]

It's not an opinion, the court dealt the punishment and he paid in full. The media made more of this crime than any other player who killed or harmed a HUMAN BEING. That isn't opinion, that is a fact. He lost all of his future earnings as well as go through bankruptcy. Out of all the players convicted, he paid the biggest price. Mind you, part of that had nothing to do with the actual killing of the dogs, it was a federal charge (interstate dog fighting) that carried a lot more weight than the actual killing of the dogs.

You'd be surprised at how little time an person or owner will do for killing a dog or dogs.

Like I said, I am a dog lover, animal lover but you shouldn't get the electric chair for something like this. The court dealt the punishment and as soon as he walked out a free man, he paid his debt to society. No ifs and buts about it.

I wish I could hit a "Black Jesus Likes this"

You must be registered for see images

 

[desertdawg]

He will never be a Cardinal or a good person, so type away Vick supporters.

 

[Joe L]

He will never be a Cardinal or a good person, so type away Vick supporters.

Very true, now we are left with a UFA who hasn't come close to getting us a TD. I think that is really the sad part in this. But hey, he has moxie, right?

 

[crisper57]

Vick "dabbled" in dog fighting the same way Al Capone "dabbled" in bootlegging.

However, he has paid the debt dictated by society and should not be punished further for his crimes. He's as entitled to try and rebuild his life as anyone else.

That being said, no one has to give him a helping hand. His crimes were heinous and lots of people will consider him scum for life. There is no way he can rehabilitate his image in their eyes. He will always be a guy with "character issues".

The Bidwills have shown over the years that they don't have alot of interest bringing these types of players into the organization. So even if Andy Reid was ready to have Kolb take over and trade Vick, it wouldn't happen. Even if the trade deadline wasn't tomorrow and we had time to work out a deal, it would never happen.