Vikings 21 Cardinals 14 Post Game Thoughts

Mitch

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The offensive coaches are now very intent on forcing a running game, and thanks to some solid blocking and some nifty, slippery, gutsy running by Hyphen, they showed real progress...as they did with Powell last week.

Yet both weeks resulted in losses. How come?

For one, a lot of missed opportunities and costly mistakes.

For two, because right now the odds of a ball control offense working and leading to wins with this particular offensive personnel are extremely low...and I mean extremely low. The reason is that ball control offense leads you into a lot of 3rd a 5's or 3's...which then puts a great deal of pressure on the QB to execute in clutch fashion under duress. It also forces the offense to try to complete 5 to 7 yard passes while the DL is pinning its ears back and going full-tilt after the QB.

If the QB is a savvy veteran, then this might work...but neither KK or JS are savvy veterans---

For three, when you try to mount long ball control drives, you are one costly sack, turnover or penalty away from a stalled drive.

For this personnel...it is inevitable that a costly sack, turnover or penalty will occur.

For four, and perhaps most importantly, when you do not threaten the defense deep, you get what we saw today, a playmaker like CB Antoine Winfield feeling at ease to play up in the box all game long...so close to the box in fact that he was in the backfield on run blitzes numerous times...and he was the one to sniff out the absurd 4th and 2 flat pass call to Reagan Ma'uia, turned QB scramble/ramble for naught. It goes to show you that even in such a key situation the Viking defensive coaches felt they didn't even have to put Winfield on Fitzgerald.

With the defense being as good as they are---the philosophy of the Cardinals' offense should be the reverse---stretch the field and go for the big plays.

Now sure you will say, but there's no time.

Actually there is time---and there was time on a number of occasions today.

The only time Skelton threw deep in the game was on a free play.

But, actually deep shots have to be thrown early enough so that you don't under-throw them.

What deep shots do is they loosen the intermediate zones for TEs like Housler, who played well again today, and who also is a deep threat himself.

What the Cardinals are doing by running on early downs and playing dink and dunk on 3rd downs is allowing the defense to play them tight---there's no looseness at all.

That Viking secondary is not that good at all---but the Cardinals' offensive coaches helped make them look good by allowing them to play up and not on their heels.

On defense---we have some special coaching going on. After a lackluster effort in the first half to stop an intensely fired-up AP, Horton started run blitzing and tightening the running lanes in the second half. He dared Ponder to throw the ball---and played sticky coverage.

Horton learned some things today---and he in all likelihood will have the defense better prepared to stop Frank Gore---too bad it took two TDs in the first half in this game because, tis was a game where 17 points could have won the ballgame.

The other thing Horton has to start insisting from his CBs is that instead of arm barring the WRs like they do every time their man goes deep, instead that's the time to look back for the ball.

Been saying this for a few weeks now but if the CBs on this team start looking for the ball, watch out. Had Wm. Gay been looking for the ball last week, he an easy pick six right in his hands which could have changed the whole outcome of that game.

PP21 needs to be told, look man, just stay stride for stride and then if you look back the ball becomes yours.

STs today did not deliver---all those punts to PP21 and not one close block or one good return.

Feely---not only does he miss the 47 yard gift the Vikings gave the team which could have had the team all the more fired up at half-time, he once again tries the on-side up the middle dribble that never has gone 10 yards.

Plus---you are kicking in a dome---is it too much to ask that you kick the ball deep into the end zone so Harvin doesn't get his hands on the ball?

And then---Rashad Johnson ruining the field position with that stupid unnecessary roughness call. At least Hyphen got it back on the next play---but man those kinds of penalties in the 4th quarter are horrible.

As for the coaching, aside from Horton, I thought it absolutely stunk. As much as I lauded CKW for his maybe best game/time management last week, this week was a return to the egregious game and clock management that has marred his tenure as a head coach.

I was happy he went for the 4th down and 2 in the third quarter, I, just like the FOX crew and most of you, couldn't imagine what he and Miller were thinking on the call. That was about as bad a call on 4th down as there is.

Then, still down 14 with about 10 minutes left in the game, the offense is actually driving and on the same down and distance (4th and 2), and inside Minny territory he PUNTS?

That decision at that time of the game when you've previously shown your team you are going to be aggressive to try to score, was just plain chickensheet...and did nothing to try to boost the confidence of the offense.

The defense did hold---but that's when the Johnson penalty resulted in starting the next drive at their own 24 yard line---which led to yet another failed drive.

But---even with the clock ticking down---NO URGENCY---almost as if they were intent on keeping the score close, but not caring that much about winning the game.

These are reasons why I have not been able to feel trust in CKW---he permits this sheet.

The players who deserve kudos---

RB Hyphen
WR Roberts
The o-line (they were pretty good today all things considered)---and I thought Ahrnsberger played well subbing in for Snyder---Snyder's been playing hurt for weeks anyway.
TE Housler
DE Campbell
DE Eason
DE Holliday
LB Washington
LB Lenon
LB Acho
S Sanders---this guy should be starting---he steps up and makes tackles.
S Wilson---missed AP on a blitz but didn't quit on the play and wound up chasing him down. Wilson broke up a big 3rd down pass and he actually wrapped up on a couple of tackles.
P Zastudil
Leach

Personnel concerns:

RT Massie---can no longer be the starter---he is just not there and is not making much progress. can't believe they wouldn't at least throw McQuistan in there for a series to see if he could muscle Roberson away from Skelton.
As for Batiste---he did a creditable job on Jared Allen. Not great---but not bad either. Still hope Chris Williams will sign because he's had something Batiste and Massie haven't had---lots of practice time blocking a stud DE in Julius Peppers.

WR Fitzgerald---not with him, but with the coaches---he could have had a big day, but you ignored him most of the day.

DE Dockett---major disappointment and if it's because he's hurt, he's hurting the team by being out there---they way he vacated his running lane on APs first quarter TD was awful.

CB Fleming---not ready to play in the first quarter, several weak efforts right in a row.

CB Gay---bad penalty, bad time.

S Johnson---boneheaded penalty.

Final thought: until the Cardinals' offense becomes a big play threat instead of a big mistake threat the Cardinals will have trouble beating anyone unless the defense pitches a shutout or scores points the way Minny did today.

The coaches are responsible for preparing the QB and building the QB's confidence---the two go hand in hand. To strictly blame the coaches is wrong and to strictly blame the QB is also wrong.

Execution often is about how well it has been coached in practice.

The coaches constantly using the "poor execution" card as an indictment of the players is a shrugging of the coaches' own responsibility.
 
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Shane

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Is it just a sheer coincidence Mitch that as we lose your posts all of a sudden start popping up faster and faster??? Hmmmmm
 

Crazy Canuck

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@mikejurecki: Breakdown of the Cardinals 13 possessions today (6 punts, 1 fumble, 1 Interception, 2 Downs, 1 Missed FG & 2 TDs)

@mikejurecki: Minnesota 1-10 on 3rd down. RT @kentsomers: Vikings gained 58 yards of offense in 2nd half, 2 first downs
 

ASUCHRIS

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Is it just a sheer coincidence Mitch that as we lose your posts all of a sudden start popping up faster and faster??? Hmmmmm

Nice trolling Shane. You're better than this.
 

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Good write up, besides Skeleton not being very good, I would like some changes made to the offensive coaching in the future - the anemic offense is becoming a Whiz trademark.
 

Russ Smith

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I agree on the 4th down call and the decision to punt, didn't like the punt and didn't like the playcall.

But I totally disagree about the throw the ball long, they beat both tackles consistently all day, when Skelton got it out quickly we were ok, when he held it we weren't. Deeper plays and deeper drops are not the answer IMO.

I agree shorter plays mean more plays to risk a turnover but then that's on Skelton not the coach, he's simply got to be more careful. He had 2 today and could ahve easily had 2-3 more the way he throws into coverage so often.

skelton likes to throw to Fitz and clearly there's enough tape on him now that teams know that and key on Fitz. Housler made some plays so the Vikings doubled him and suddenly Skelton is confused because the first 2 guys he looked at were always covered. Took him forever to figure out that means Robers and Doucet are singled. When he did again Doucet had the big drop.

One thing with this team is we make mistakes that just kill me. Right before the 2 minute warning Roberts cuts in and gets tackled instead of running out of bounds to get one more play.

On the picksix, as dumb a throw as that was I can't be the only one who notices Hyphen has a chance to tackle Smith at the 20 yard line and sort of backed off like he thought someone else will get him? He had a great game so I feel bad picking on him but he made no effort at all and it's not like Smith is a 310 pounder.
 

ASUCHRIS

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What a waste of a good defense.

This offense is somewhere beyond pathetic, and there is very little reason for hope.

Top to bottom, our offense is a complete joke. Over the last 3 years, we've shown no improvement. We still need a new QB, RB, and at least a couple new OL.

Excellent analysis on our offensive "gameplan". There are teams that can dink and dunk and play the ball control offense. Sadly, these teams don't make mistakes, can run the ball, and have QB's who don't make major mistakes. We effectively have none of these elements.

Even when we're miraculously able to string together a long drive, we're always one OL mistake/QB mistake/dropped pass away from a stalled drive.

With a league average offense, we'd be no worse than 5-2. Now, I'm not sure if we're in a position to beat anyone left on the schedule.

I'm a Whiz supporter, but for an offensive coach, much of the blame has to be on him for having such a putrid offense.

The problem is, where do you start? Time to find someone who can identify QB's, commit to them, and start over. Other than Jacksonville, I can't imagine a more hopeless offensive situation.
 

ASUCHRIS

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It's a legit honest question. You don't find it odd? I do.

It's a trolling question. Who cares when or why? Focus on the content and talk football. That is all.
 

Cheesebeef

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Is it just a sheer coincidence Mitch that as we lose your posts all of a sudden start popping up faster and faster??? Hmmmmm

Gotta admit, that was my first thought when I saw this was up here so quick
 
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Mitch

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I agree on the 4th down call and the decision to punt, didn't like the punt and didn't like the playcall.

But I totally disagree about the throw the ball long, they beat both tackles consistently all day, when Skelton got it out quickly we were ok, when he held it we weren't. Deeper plays and deeper drops are not the answer IMO.

I agree shorter plays mean more plays to risk a turnover but then that's on Skelton not the coach, he's simply got to be more careful. He had 2 today and could ahve easily had 2-3 more the way he throws into coverage so often.

skelton likes to throw to Fitz and clearly there's enough tape on him now that teams know that and key on Fitz. Housler made some plays so the Vikings doubled him and suddenly Skelton is confused because the first 2 guys he looked at were always covered. Took him forever to figure out that means Robers and Doucet are singled. When he did again Doucet had the big drop.

One thing with this team is we make mistakes that just kill me. Right before the 2 minute warning Roberts cuts in and gets tackled instead of running out of bounds to get one more play.

On the picksix, as dumb a throw as that was I can't be the only one who notices Hyphen has a chance to tackle Smith at the 20 yard line and sort of backed off like he thought someone else will get him? He had a great game so I feel bad picking on him but he made no effort at all and it's not like Smith is a 310 pounder.

For the record---when the games are 1PM EST, I have time to write a post---when the games get over at 8 PM EST I do not---hope that is OK with everyone besides the thread trashers on this board.

Secondly, sometimes Russ you have to throw the ball deep as a statement---you CANNOT allow teams to play you tight in a 20 yard box. And like I said---throwing the ball deep doesn't mean holding onto the ball longer---if anything it's throwing it early....like the back shoulder pass or the fade or the flat-out go route. The way Fitz can go up and get to the ball before anyone else, I would throw it up for him once a quarter.
 
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Shane

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It's a trolling question. Who cares when or why? Focus on the content and talk football. That is all.

I care and so do others. It's kind of ironic when you have nothing to say for four weeks and disappear while winning because your posts are viewed as sour grapes. But now when your losing your here to pile on and try to prove your point. IMO that's trolling.
 

ASUCHRIS

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The lackadaisical offense and complete lack of urgency in the 4th quarter on offense was not only maddening but also insulting. You have 7 points on the board and are acting like you're up by 2 TD's.

Pathetic.

And Feely is a complete joke. His kickoffs are some of the weakest in the NFL, and he continues to miss easy kicks. Can't wait until he's gone.
 

Russ Smith

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For the record---when the games are 1PM EST, I have time to write a post---when the games get over at 8 PM EST I do not---hope that is OK with everyone besides the thread trashers on this board.

Secondly, sometimes Russ you have to throw the ball deep as a statement---you CANNOT allow teams to play you tight in a 20 yard box. And like I said---throwing the ball deep doesn't mean holding onto the ball longer---if anything it throwing it early.

Yes but Skelton WAS holding the ball too long, so if you call a deeper play there's no guarantee he will get it out. We don't have a speed WR to get the ball downfield to. Honestly the one WR who's gotten open deep this year at all is Floyd and it's because he's always singled.

I agree there were bad play calls.
 

ASUCHRIS

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I care and so do others.

There has to be more interesting things to focus on.

It's kind of ironic when you have nothing to say for four weeks and disappear while winning because your posts are viewed as sour grapes. But now when your losing your here to pile on and try to prove your point. IMO that's trolling.

That's not irony. And in almost every case, his posts are good reads. I'm not going to waste brain matter trying to understand the motivations for posting/vs not posting.

If misery loves company, he's hitched his wagon to the right team.
 

BigRedArk

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Good write-up Mitch.

I too like that the Coaching staff seems intent on forcing a Running game.

If we can keep doing this maybe it opens up the Play-Action passing game more so? It also gives our OL a break from having to set up so much to Pass Block. I would imagine that they too may appreciate that as well.
 

BigRedArk

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I care and so do others. It's kind of ironic when you have nothing to say for four weeks and disappear while winning because your posts are viewed as sour grapes. But now when your losing your here to pile on and try to prove your point. IMO that's trolling.

Isn't this much ado about nothing Shane?
 
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Mitch

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What a waste of a good defense.

This offense is somewhere beyond pathetic, and there is very little reason for hope.

Top to bottom, our offense is a complete joke. Over the last 3 years, we've shown no improvement. We still need a new QB, RB, and at least a couple new OL.

Excellent analysis on our offensive "gameplan". There are teams that can dink and dunk and play the ball control offense. Sadly, these teams don't make mistakes, can run the ball, and have QB's who don't make major mistakes. We effectively have none of these elements.

Even when we're miraculously able to string together a long drive, we're always one OL mistake/QB mistake/dropped pass away from a stalled drive.

With a league average offense, we'd be no worse than 5-2. Now, I'm not sure if we're in a position to beat anyone left on the schedule.

I'm a Whiz supporter, but for an offensive coach, much of the blame has to be on him for having such a putrid offense.

The problem is, where do you start? Time to find someone who can identify QB's, commit to them, and start over. Other than Jacksonville, I can't imagine a more hopeless offensive situation.

Well said, Chris.

Where four years ago we were a threat on offense and no threat on defense---now it's the reverse, and with a HC who is supposed to be an offensive guru, that makes you wonder.

Putting a rookie QB into this system next year is not the answer, imo.

The answer is a change in offensive philosophy and a FA veteran QB, while Skelton and Lindley develop.

Unless Kolb will redo his contract---simply because of his injury issues, the Cardinals cannot retain him at his salary.
 
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Mitch

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Good write-up Mitch.

I too like that the Coaching staff seems intent on forcing a Running game.

If we can keep doing this maybe it opens up the Play-Action passing game more so? It also gives our OL a break from having to set up so much to Pass Block. I would imagine that they too may appreciate that as well.

I agree BigRedArk, except in reverse---pass to set up the run---as they did when they whipped Philly.
 
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Mitch

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Yes but Skelton WAS holding the ball too long, so if you call a deeper play there's no guarantee he will get it out. We don't have a speed WR to get the ball downfield to. Honestly the one WR who's gotten open deep this year at all is Floyd and it's because he's always singled.

I agree there were bad play calls.

Yeah, Russ...when Skelton has held onto it too long, it's too late to throw deep, so now all he has is short to intermediate options.
 

vinnymac

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O-line needs to protect better in the passing game.
Get Fitz involed
Feely make your Feild Goals
Great job by the defense and Hyphen.
 

82CardsGrad

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Skleton is not even close to NFL starter quality. He's putrid. Has zero pocket presence and has to be the most inaccurate QB in the league...
Our o-line is of course, all-workd bad... We now lead the entire NFL in sacks allowed, hits allowed and pressures... AND, we lead the NFL in 3 and outs to boot!

Somehow, we can't find a way to get the ball to a hall of fame WR who's in his prime - Fitz. That's on the coaches, as well as the QB and o-line.
We have ZERO vertical game and ZERO downfield threat. None...
We don't have any viable threat at running back...

So, unless we score a ton of points on defense, or, PP remembers how he returned punts from last year, this team and this season is screwed...

Time to start analyzing the 2013 draft... :bang:
 

Paso Fino

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I care and so do others. It's kind of ironic when you have nothing to say for four weeks and disappear while winning because your posts are viewed as sour grapes. But now when your losing your here to pile on and try to prove your point. IMO that's trolling.

You are being silly. Are you jealous or something?
 

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