Vince Carter trade thread

[ninous26]

idiots (FO)..

Always looking to sign FA's and trade, never draft... When in fact in the last decade our best pieces came from the draft. (Marion, Stat) Nash is the exception and we picked up JJ when he was young and a nobody for what? Tony Delk and Rodney Rodgers?

I would kill for a new animal like Marion, I'd even take a new PF thats bad rebounding and defensively like amare but a powerhouse offensively and pair him up with a mediocre Center in Gortat.

sorry for off topic rant.

 

[SweetD]

You guys act like this team in the Kings or something.

 

[slinslin]

You guys act like this team in the Kings or something.

I'd trade our roster for the Kings roster in a heartbeat.

 

[BC867]

I'd trade our roster for the Kings roster in a heartbeat.

And KJ is playing the best defense of his life trying to keep them from moving to L.A.

 

[Mainstreet]

And KJ is playing the best defense of his life trying to keep them from moving to L.A.

Actually I think KJ going on the offense is what is giving Sacramento a chance to keep the Kings. KJ has been wowing everyone.

 

[Covert Rain]

I doubt it. It's been years since he helped anyone win, and I think the league has figured that out by now.

I agree. Will anybody even want this guy? I don't even want him for the min.

 

[Mainstreet]

I agree. Will anybody even want this guy? I don't even want him for the min.

I think Carter is easily worth the minimum and some team will pick him up. As long as a coach knows when and how to use him as a role player he will do fine. It's easy to knock him when the Suns brought him in to be the starting SG. A link to his stats is below.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/vince_carter/

 

[Mainstreet]

I wasn't 100% sure Carter could be traded because of the buyout. However, in an article written by Paul Coro dated 4-15-11, he indicates this can be done. Although this option is not a new thought, I was glad to hear it corroborated by another source. If Sarver is willing to trade Carter in a draft day deal, this could be a huge bargaining chip.

Vince Carter: Carter will not return next season, whether the Suns incorporate him into a draft-day deal or waive him by June 30 and give him $4 million to avoid paying his $18 million salary for 2011-12.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...hoenix-suns-looking-ahead-2011-12-season.html

 

[dodie53]

will duds start at the 2 when vc get traded or bought out?

 

[BC867]

will duds start at the 2 when vc get traded or bought out?

J.D.'s lifetime 3-point shooting % as a Sun (.432) ranks second to Nash's .438.

J.D.'s lifetime overall shooting % as a Sun (.567) ranks sixth in Suns history. Nash's .571 is the only Guard ahead of him.

Steve has been recognized as the best pure shooter in the league. Dudley is just .006 behind him in 3-point shooting and .004 behind him in overall shooting.

Why would we want to get rid of the Junkyard Dog? Especially considering his hustle and the way he positions himself so well for rebounds in the land of the giants.

 

[SweetD]

I'd trade our roster for the Kings roster in a heartbeat.

Your right they have done some much better than the Suns and that team really has it together and should win the title or maybe even make the playoffs this year... or maybe next.... or maybe the year after that... or maybe 10 years later.

Well lets at least hope they can get out of the lottory one of these years.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Your right they have done some much better than the Suns

he never said this. he said they're positioned better for the future. try sticking to people's arguments rather than putting words in their mouths.

and that team really has it together and should win the title

again, no one's saying this. you're arguing made up POVs. by the same token I can absolutely say it's a joke to think the suns really have it together and have any shot whatsoever to win a title and it's incredibly suspect if they even make the playoffs next year considering they haven't two of the last three years and are just getting older and less talented.

or maybe even make the playoffs this year... or maybe next.... or maybe the year after that... or maybe 10 years later.

Well lets at least hope they can get out of the lottory one of these years.

you mean like we've been the last two seasons sans Amare for either half the year (2009) or the entire year (this year)?

no one's arguing the Kings have been better than us over the last five years, but you have to be a ridiculous homer not to see that team is set up better for the future than this team. at least they have budding young possibly SUPERSTAR talent, as opposed to this team which has old aging former all-stars and role players.

 

[SweetD]

I am sure there would be much rejoicing every year for a team with under 30 wins. Please some on this board are pissed with a team that missed the playoffs by 7 games let alone 20.

"If" your a fan why not look at the history of "your" team and tell me why you would want to trade it for a lesser product and organization?

I am a fan, call me a homer if want. I take what this team has done over the years not over a few months. Now if the team sucks for 3 years then I may change my tone on the ownership (ala Cardinals.. Kings), but until then I would rather go with my team that has proven they can win vs maybe's and what if's.

We may have not won a title, but I am still a Suns Fan!

 

[Cheesebeef]

I am sure there would be much rejoicing every year for a team with under 30 wins.

again... NO ONE SAID THIS. Good god. Why can't you talk basketball without projecting ridiculous arguments on to other people?

Please some on this board are pissed with a team that missed the playoffs by 7 games let alone 20.

we're pissed because there's no upside to being a team who falls 7 games out of the playoffs, whereas if you fall 20 games out, at least maybe you can get a difference maker in the draft.

how this line of thinking is STILL misunderstood is beyond me.

"If" your a fan

so, we've gone from putting words in people's mouths to QUESTIONING THEIR FANDOM? Are you serious? jesus, this is getting insulting.

why not look at the history of "your" team and tell me why you would want to trade it for a lesser product and organization?

and now we're getting back to the projecting ridiculous arguments into people's mouths again. Slin's point and mine has NOTHING TO DO WITH HISTORY. It has to do with THE FUTURE. Obviously our past 6 years are heads and shoulders above the Kings, but our future looks incredibly bleak with no discernable young talent moving forward, whereas they have two great young pieces... and another high lotto pick to add to the team.

I am a fan, call me a homer if want. I take what this team has done over the years not over a few months. Now if the team sucks for 3 years then I may change my tone on the ownership (ala Cardinals.. Kings), but until then I would rather go with my team that has proven they can win vs maybe's and what if's.

We may have not won a title, but I am still a Suns Fan!

so are we. we just don't want to live in the past and as of now, we ain't got no future.

 

[mojorizen7]

I am sure there would be much rejoicing every year for a team with under 30 wins. Please some on this board are pissed with a team that missed the playoffs by 7 games let alone 20.

"If" your a fan why not look at the history of "your" team and tell me why you would want to trade it for a lesser product and organization?

I am a fan, call me a homer if want. I take what this team has done over the years not over a few months. Now if the team sucks for 3 years then I may change my tone on the ownership (ala Cardinals.. Kings), but until then I would rather go with my team that has proven they can win vs maybe's and what if's.

We may have not won a title, but I am still a Suns Fan!

No disrespect meant to personally you Sweet,but this post is a perfect example of the basketball culture/mentality thats been in place here....and Sarver continues to benefit from.

I would hope that the fanbase would expect(and demand)true excellence from the hometeam instead of just a plethora of playoff appearances and a constant "win now at all cost's mentality" with little regard for the future.

If you were a homerun hitter and you were 0-42 at the plate.....maybe it's time to change your stance?

 

[BC867]

If you were a homerun hitter and you were 0-42 at the plate.....maybe it's time to change your stance?

Ah, you know Mark Reynolds.

 

[Griffin]

If you were a homerun hitter and you were 0-42 at the plate.....maybe it's time to change your stance?

The current 30 NBA franchises, including Lakers and Celtics, have won an average of 2 titles per 42 years in the league. 0-42 looks bad until you realize it's not much off of the league's average per franchise. In fact, if you exclude the Lakers and Celtics, the remaining 28 teams have won an average of 1.25 titles in 41 years. Is it so surprising then that a team could go 0-42? Is it much worse than New York's 2-65? Seattle/OKC's 1-44? Rockets' 2-44? Blazers' 1-41? Wizards' 1-50? Jazz' 0-37? I could go on and on.

Don't get me wrong. I would love to see the Suns win a title, I've been waiting a long time for that, we all have. But for the vast majority of franchises in the league, titles are few and far between. This is just the nature of NBA. This doesn't mean that the Suns have completely failed as a franchise in 43 years in the league. They have one of the highest winning percentages, which directly translates into putting themselves into position to win a title. Ultimately, you still have to win games to make playoffs and you have to make playoffs to win titles.

 

[mojorizen7]

The current 30 NBA franchises, including Lakers and Celtics, have won an average of 2 titles per 42 years in the league. 0-42 looks bad until you realize it's not much off of the league's average per franchise. In fact, if you exclude the Lakers and Celtics, the remaining 28 teams have won an average of 1.25 titles in 41 years. Is it so surprising then that a team could go 0-42? Is it much worse than New York's 2-65? Seattle/OKC's 1-44? Rockets' 2-44? Blazers' 1-41? Wizards' 1-50? Jazz' 0-37? I could go on and on.

Don't get me wrong. I would love to see the Suns win a title, I've been waiting a long time for that, we all have. But for the vast majority of franchises in the league, titles are few and far between. This is just the nature of NBA. This doesn't mean that the Suns have completely failed as a franchise in 43 years in the league. They have one of the highest winning percentages, which directly translates into putting themselves into position to win a title. Ultimately, you still have to win games to make playoffs and you have to make playoffs to win titles.

I never said they've completely failed as a franchise. I've maintained that simply making the playoffs every year isn't good enough(but it seems that it's good enough for the basketball culture thats been put in place here)....i've also maintained that they're doing it wrong.

Actually its been the same 4 or 5 teams....constantly sniffing titles(meaning they're at least getting to the Finals). What they're doing works>>>>>>> " if it ain't broke don't fix it."

The Suns have sniffed a title twice in 42 years Griff....and they've never really strayed from their formula. Futile insanity IMO.

 

[Cheesewater]

The Suns have sniffed a title twice in 42 years Griff....and they've never really strayed from their formula. Futile insanity IMO.

I would count Conference Finals as sniffing....but that's just me...Mr. Vegas.

 

[mojorizen7]

I would count Conference Finals as sniffing....but that's just me...Mr. Vegas.

I'd call that "whiffing " a title. haha



GO RAMS! tee hee

 

[Mainstreet]

No disrespect meant to personally you Sweet,but this post is a perfect example of the basketball culture/mentality thats been in place here....and Sarver continues to benefit from.

I would hope that the fanbase would expect(and demand)true excellence from the hometeam instead of just a plethora of playoff appearances and a constant "win now at all cost's mentality" with little regard for the future.

If you were a homerun hitter and you were 0-42 at the plate.....maybe it's time to change your stance?

As I count it there are 7 NBA teams that have never won a Championship and 7 teams that have won only 1. Also the Celtics and Lakers have won a combined 23 Championships, 17 for the Celtics and 16 for the Lakers. The Bulls have won 6. How is that for parity?

Also the Suns did not start play until 1968.

http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/playoffs/Finals/tidbits.html

 

[devilalum]

Also the Celtics and Lakers have won a combined 23 Championships, 17 for the Celtics and 16 for the Lakers. The Bulls have won 6. How is that for parity?

Just the way Stern the Puppetmaster likes it.

 

[mojorizen7]

From the same link you provided:

Most Finals games won
Lakers 89
Celtics 77
76ers 24
Bulls 24
Pistons 22
Knicks 20
Spurs 16

The Sixers are the only team on this list that has basically fallen off the map in recent NBA history. The Knicks will soon wake up and abandon D'Antoni ball(it's already started there with the talk of hiring a defensive asst)....too much at stake in The Big Apple.
Why aren't the Suns on this list? I mean...we've been so successful...whats the problem?

The 7 teams you mentioned who haven't won a championship are:
Phoenix (2 Finals appearances) 18 years since last Finals
Orlando (2) 2 years
NJ Nets (2) 8 years
Utah (2) 13 years
Dallas (1) 5 years
Indiana (1) 11 years
Cleveland (1) 4 years

Teams that have never been to the Finals
Bobcats
Nuggets
Clippers
Grizzlies
Timberwolves
Hornets
Raptors

Not much history there outside of the Clippers who should just quit...and Denver who has long since abandoned the offensive-minded culture.

The Suns have a 42 year history,i don't think Phx could be considered a young franchise anymore....
The Suns haven't gotten it done.

If i was a Utah Jazz fan i'd be scratching my head a little too....and they were built upon a solid defensive foundation unlike Phx.

We'll all make of these numbers what we want to i suppose...i want changes from top to bottom. Owner,GM,HC,players and most importantly the philosophy.

 

[Griffin]

I never said they've completely failed as a franchise. I've maintained that simply making the playoffs every year isn't good enough(but it seems that it's good enough for the basketball culture thats been put in place here)....i've also maintained that they're doing it wrong.

Actually its been the same 4 or 5 teams....constantly sniffing titles(meaning they're at least getting to the Finals). What they're doing works>>>>>>> " if it ain't broke don't fix it."

The Suns have sniffed a title twice in 42 years Griff....and they've never really strayed from their formula. Futile insanity IMO.

My point is, if the Suns' title futility is a result of a persistant erroneous philosophy or culture, how do you explain the futility of the other 24-26 current franchises (depending on where you draw the futility line)? If an NBA team other than Lakers or Celitcs wins on average a single title every 41 years, wouldn't it be fair to say that the problem lies elsewhere? Or is every team not named Lakers or Celtics doing something terribly wrong?

The 7 teams you mentioned who haven't won a championship are:

So what is a difference between, say, winning a single title or even two in 43 years versus none? Would your opinion of the Suns change now had they won a title in the distant past, such as the '76 Finals vs. Celtics? Would their philosophy seem any more valid now?

 

[Mainstreet]

From the same link you provided:

The Sixers are the only team on this list that has basically fallen off the map in recent NBA history. The Knicks will soon wake up and abandon D'Antoni ball(it's already started there with the talk of hiring a defensive asst)....too much at stake in The Big Apple.
Why aren't the Suns on this list? I mean...we've been so successful...whats the problem?

The 7 teams you mentioned who haven't won a championship are:
Phoenix (2 Finals appearances) 18 years since last Finals
Orlando (2) 2 years
NJ Nets (2) 8 years
Utah (2) 13 years
Dallas (1) 5 years
Indiana (1) 11 years
Cleveland (1) 4 years


Not much history there outside of the Clippers who should just quit...and Denver who has long since abandoned the offensive-minded culture.

The Suns have a 42 year history,i don't think Phx could be considered a young franchise anymore....
The Suns haven't gotten it done.

If i was a Utah Jazz fan i'd be scratching my head a little too....and they were built upon a solid defensive foundation unlike Phx.

We'll all make of these numbers what we want to i suppose...i want changes from top to bottom. Owner,GM,HC,players and most importantly the philosophy.

I'm glad you like my link. I was hoping you would read it.

What it all proves there is no parity in the NBA. Good teams like the Suns get very few chances to get a franchise player because of drafting positioning and the wealthy teams generally get what they want. It's hard for a team like the Suns which doesn't tank to get in position to draft a Tim Duncan.