Warner/Bartelstein: NEW OFFER TO CARDS!! (reasonable)

[dreamcastrocks]

I am sure his agent is being honest that he could get more on the open market. My BEST GUESS is that the 49ers offered around 2 million more. Kurt isn't stupid and figures an ideal situation is worth 2 million less.

Whisenhunt has had a tremendous amount of control this off season (which he earned with taking us to the SB). Now we will see if Whisenhunt values Warner at this level.

Agreed.

If the report that the Cards upped their offer to around those numbers last night, and this is what the agent is offering, this should be a no brainer and should be done over lunch.

Just get this damn thing over with so we can focus on other free agents

If that was the case, then why would the agent need to publically state this new offer? If the Cards had essentially the same deal on the table, they would have tried to work on the contract behind the scenes. No need to go public here if the rumored bump up was offered IMO.

Here is what I found most interesting about the comments.

The offer his agent made is the same amount of money as the last offer we made when we bumped up the 20 mill to 23 mill. The difference is that we added 3 mill worth of incentives where as Warner is asking for the extra 3 mill straight up.

So the biggest hurdle has been jumped with the money between team and player being exactly the same. Now the haggle over structure of that money remains. Thats usually when things start to happen.

I hope the Cards stick with the team option for year 2.

 

[Shane]

Say no and let him go!

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

This is a no-brainer and the ball is back in the Cards court. Warner obviously wants to be a Cardinal and I am not ready for the Leinart era to begin (if ever).

The thing that bothers me about everyone ragging on Warner is that not one team really slowed down this offense last year. And with most of the pieces back there is no reason to believe this team cant be just as good if not better. Lets get it done!

 

[jefftheshark]

Negotiating in the media is usually a sure sign of desperation. I'd bet that the niner's didn't make an offer at all.

I would also bet that the ultimate "Contract Number" will be close to the $23 Million dollar total, but that when Joe breaks down the contract, we'll find it is for considerably less.

While it appears the Cards have won the battle, the FO now needs to find a way to save Warner's "face" and get him signed soon, rather than later, because otherwise Warner's pride might get in the way & make him do something rash.

JMHO

JTS

 

[Big Deal]

Of course he did, he already had his deal. Both would modify their contracts (new or existing) to give money to Q. Doesn't seem all that unprecedented to me.

My point was that Fitz stated that he would restructure his deal, not give Q his money. While it is a nice gesture, it's nothing more than saying, I'll move money around so that you can fit him in the cap. Not to mention with the uncapped year coming up, I don't think Fitz restructuring would be able to help.

If I am reading this article correctly it is saying that Warner has instructed his agent to tell the club he will take less money (2 million) if they re-sign Q.

 

[cardsfanmd]

This is a no-brainer and the ball is back in the Cards court. Warner obviously wants to be a Cardinal and I am not ready for the Leinart era to begin (if ever).

The thing that bothers me about everyone ragging on Warner is that not one team really slowed down this offense last year. And with most of the pieces back there is no reason to believe this team cant be just as good if not better. Lets get it done!

Hate to play devil's advocate here, but I think New England did a pretty decent job.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Isn't that what we supposedly upped our offer to last night?

Regardless..it's a bit too much, but fair enough. Get it done or cut bait. I honestly don't care which way we go...just that we get going.

This is my thoughts as well. While I lean towards the "Resign Kurt" camp, his status is the domino for our whole off season. A decision needs to be made ASAP so we can decide the direction of this team. I don't believe it is a coincidence we have done nothing with Edge.

We stand on the precipe of two philosophies. With Warner, we absolutely need to resign Anquan, spread the field, and play the hybrid run and shoot that we have the last year. This is when Edge will be released

Without Warner, you can bet we will want to cut down our pass attempts and thus Anquan becomes an unnecessary luxury. I see a sharp turn towards a more traditional run based team. This is situation where Edge stays and is kept happy by getting his touches.

 

[abomb]

I hope the Cards stick with the team option for year 2.

Mike Florio at PFT basically said that a two-year contract, absent of guaranteed money in the second year, is in effect a one-year deal.

I dont think the Cardinals want to pay $12M in 2009 for KW. Either they dont want to or feel they financially cant given current conditions.

 

[AntSports Steve]

This is a reasonable offer by Warner.

I have heard players say they'll take less or restructure, but this is the first time ever that I have heard of a player actually putting into a contract to get less money if an incentive is reached. (ie resign Q and subtract 1M per year from my contract). Wow!

Now that's putting money where your mouth is.


Abomb, the problem with the 2nd year of Warners deal is : When Kurt is signed for a real 2 year deal, not the 1 year deal they offered Warner, what happens to ML and how will the QB of the Future be worked out. Right now, the Cards have to figure out how not to waste ML by letting him sit on the bench for 2 more years and then leave via Free Agency, and how do the Cards keep quality QB play after Warner is gone. I doubt he plays a 3rd year.

 

[abomb]

Here is the blurb

Look, unless the team fully guarantees the year two compensation, any two-year contract is, in essence, a one-year deal with a one-year option.

The second year of a contract is never guaranteed, absent the presence of guaranteed money.

For example, if they do a two-year, $28 million contract with equal income in both years and none guaranteed in the second, it’s still a one-year deal with a one-year option.

As a practical matter, however, the second season of most multi-year contracts is guaranteed in a cap environment, since cutting the player that soon would create an unwanted acceleration of prorated bonus money.

In Warner’s case, why would anyone guarantee an eight-figure salary in the second year of a deal when the player is going to be 38 in the first year of it?

Anyway, we know Charles and like his work, but intentionally or not his well-written opinion piece reads like talking points from Warner’s agent, Mark Bartelstein.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

I vote YES!

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Hate to play devil's advocate here, but I think New England did a pretty decent job.

I dont. I think it was the combo of the snow and the lack of caring by the team. I think you play that game again and the Cards put up big numbers.

 

[D-Dogg]

Hmm, I don't like the splitting of the bonus.

I like the one year and team option on second year, with all the money in the bonus up front. That's the whole point, Kurt. If you fall off like other QBs (cunningham, Gannon) then we don't want to be on the hook for you at age 39.

The Leinart extension/bonus earned issue creeps up next year as well. The Cards are trying to avoid a doomsday scenario where Kurt falls off, Leinart doesn't want to play here and in 2010 we owe $6 mill to a QB who isn't playing and the young QB on the bench is on another team, potentially doing well. That's when the media dorks will point fingers and say how dumb we were to sign Warner the way we did even though they are pointing fingers now and saying "just do it."

That second year is the HUGE sticking point for the FO, and rightfully so. And Warner and Co. want it for security...perform as you did this year Kurt, and you don't get cut. Simple as that. What's being said is "I'm betting $6 million that I will not play well enough to avoid being cut in a year." While smart businesswise, it isn't going to go over well with the FO.

 

[Stout]

Sweet, I was about to ask to have my thread merged (2 pages into this one all in the time it took me to type mine--curses!). It's already done. Kewl.

 

[Saxon079]

2 years, 23 mil $12 mil guaranteed

Warner's heart is still in Phoenix according to Bartelstein

What more can Bidwill ask for get it done. Yes Bidwill until he proves he's not going to piss away last year.

Ugh. 10M was reasonable.

They used SF for leverage.

Sorry Matt looks like you get the next two years off.

The most interesting concession is giving up $1 million in each of the years if the Cardinals re-sign Anquan Boldin. That may be unprecedented IMO and really indicates what Kurt thinks of Anquan.

He is taking less money than he can get on the open market and giveing two million to Q he has my respect back.

So unprecendented that Fitz offered the same thing last month?

Last I heard is he would redo his deal he did not put a number on it. If he has please post a link.

 

[abomb]

Hmm, I don't like the splitting of the bonus.

I like the one year and team option on second year, with all the money in the bonus up front. That's the whole point, Kurt. If you fall off like other QBs (cunningham, Gannon) then we don't want to be on the hook for you at age 39.

The Leinart extension/bonus earned issue creeps up next year as well. The Cards are trying to avoid a doomsday scenario where Kurt falls off, Leinart doesn't want to play here and in 2010 we owe $6 mill to a QB who isn't playing and the young QB on the bench is on another team, potentially doing well. That's when the media dorks will point fingers and say how dumb we were to sign Warner the way we did even though they are pointing fingers now and saying "just do it."

That second year is the HUGE sticking point for the FO, and rightfully so. And Warner and Co. want it for security...perform as you did this year Kurt, and you don't get cut. Simple as that. What's being said is "I'm betting $6 million that I will not play well enough to avoid being cut in a year." While smart businesswise, it isn't going to go over well with the FO.

Winner!

 

[daves]

Fitz said he would restructure his deal. This is a player who in print is stating that he will take 2M less if it goes to Q.

Not disputing what you wrote, but that's not at all how i remembered it. I thought that while being interviewed prior to the Super Bowl, Fitzgerald was somewhat put on the spot and asked whether he would play for less money if it would help to keep Boldin on the team, and his reply was something like, "Uh, yeah, sure."

I am not aware of him ever repeating that "offer" or making a more specific offer with a $2M figure, but if he did, i'd like to read about it. Does anyone have a link?

In any case, making a supportive statement and actually putting the terms in a contract are very, very different. I've never heard of a player actually proposing a contract where he'd get less if another player were given a more satisfactory contract.

...dave

EDIT: Now that i've read the posts merged in from the other thread, i see that we're pretty much in agreement....

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I see the split signing bonus as the end of the "What does the front office think of Leinart" arguement. If they agree to this contract, then they feel that Warner was the key to the Super Bowl and the difference in talent between him and Leinart warrants the risk of the guaranteed money in the second year.

 

[Feeble Mcjackson]

I think this is a fair deal so lets get it done and over with.

 

[zuchini]

i have to admit it's a good play by the agent. However, Kurt is a quarterback and shouldn't be trying to tell the Cards what to with Boldin. Is he going to give up money for Dockett,AW, and Dansby as well? Worry about your own contract and let the FO,as scary as that sounds, worry about the rest.

Warner isn't telling the FO what to do.

He's simply trying to get them to keep one of their better players by giving up money so that they might find it more appealing to sign anquan.

 

[cgolden]

Sign him up.......I've bashed everyone for jumping on Graves and the rest of the front office but if this isn't a done deal by tonight, I might have to throw a couple of stones myself.

 

[abomb]

This whole "I'll give up $X so the team can re-sign another player" is a pipe dream. No player (or more importantly agent of NFLPA) is not going to allow that to happen when pen meets paper. It opens a Pandora's Box.

Nothing like that has every occurred before in the NFL. The closest thing was Peyton Manning restructuring a couple of times (by spreading a huge bonus over future years) to save the Colts some cap room.

The sooner this concept can die, the better off we will be.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Not disputing what you wrote, but that's not at all how i remembered it. I thought that while being interviewed prior to the Super Bowl, Fitzgerald was somewhat put on the spot and asked whether he would play for less money if it would help to keep Boldin on the team, and his reply was something like, "Uh, yeah, sure."

I am not aware of him ever repeating that "offer" or making a more specific offer with a $2M figure, but if he did, i'd like to read about it. Does anyone have a link?

In any case, making a supportive statement and actually putting the terms in a contract are very, very different. I've never heard of a player actually proposing a contract where he'd get less if another player were given a more satisfactory contract.

...dave

I guarantee you that this clause won't be written in Kurts contract, as well-intentioned as it may be. (just like Fitz)

What happens when Q won't resign with the team no matter what? Who gets the money, the Cards or Kurt? Scenerios like this will keep that language out of Kurt's contract.

 

[joeshmo]

While cool, Warners offer to let go of 1 mill per year if Boldin is re-signed is an empty one. First, you can’t put an incentive into a contract that makes it so his contract deducts 1 mill per year if Boldin is extended, you can only make performance or practice base incentives or decentives. Second, Warner knows darn well that he would sign a contract right away, meaning Cards have only hours to negotiate with Boldin, because Warner isn’t going to wait to sign his deal waiting maybe weeks for a Boldin deal to get done.

Again nice gesture but it isn’t a practical or feasible one in this case, unless he just takes the Cards word on it in a hand shake deal.

 

[zuchini]

As for the split bonus thing...

wonder what Mr. Leinart is thinking about all of this? Will it create a desire to be traded ala Cutler?