Warner/Bartelstein: NEW OFFER TO CARDS!! (reasonable)

[Reddog]

Do you want to have 6M tied to next year's cap even if Kurt can't play next year?

If you pay him a $12M bonus over 2 years you cant avoid the $6M hit in the second year. He is never going to sign a one year deal.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Same argument that was made last season is applicable this upcoming season: you need two adequate QBs in case #1 goes down. Warner, luckily, was healthy enough to play all last season. Law of averages with Kurt's career and age states that he won't sustain that sort of healthiness next season. Matt needs to stay

Why do we thik Matt is "adequate"? Am I the only one who watched his last several starts? I am not much for conspiracy theories etc, but I am beginning to agree with the poster who said they feel Whiz doesnt care for Matt and that St Pierre might be the #2 next year....

 

[joeshmo]

Absolutely. Warner told us before the season ended that it was Cards or retirement. Do you think Warner is a liar now?

Wouldnt him giving the 49ers the time of day then also make him a lair if he never had any intentions of actually giving them a shot. Also Warner never flat out said Cards or Retirement. He just stated his preference, it was never a black or white statement.

His agent is not going to say the 49ers made a bigger offer unless they actually did. Its a small group and he doesnt want to be known as a liar and he doesnt want to screw over the 49ers by making them out to be a patsy. Plus the 49ers knew what we were offering from day one and the second offer considering Warner was still there when we made the second offer, they wouldnt have rolled out the red carpet for Warner and his wife if they didnt feel they could raise the stakes.

 

[WildBB]

Let just do a 1 year contract at 13 mil and go with Matty after that.

That's not an option for either side apparently.

 

[joeshmo]

If you pay him a $12M bonus over 2 years you cant avoid the $6M hit in the second year. He is never going to sign a one year deal.

You could if you made the 12 mill a roster bonus for this season instead of a signing bonus.

 

[Saxon079]

If you pay him a $12M bonus over 2 years you cant avoid the $6M hit in the second year. He is never going to sign a one year deal.

Yes IMO. That's better than a one year 12 million hit.

 

[az1965]

2 years, 23 mil $12 mil guaranteed

Warner's heart is still in Phoenix according to Bartelstein

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/2009/03/03/20090303warner.html

Didn't Cards up the offer to something similar?

 

[Bert]

This proposal by kurt and his agent seems pretty reasonable to me. Lets just get this done, take Kurt up on his offer and resign Q and get to the rest of the buisness of free agency. I'm sooooooooo tired of this mess. I thought getting these guys back was going to be a no brainer.

I've been trying to give the Cardinals the benefit of the doubt so far in free agency, but if we dont start getting something done soon I will begin to lose patience.

 

[Crash]

That's not an option for either side apparently.

Yeah I know, they Cards would have to pay up like 15 mil at least for one year. I just don't want to see us stuck without a QB in two years. Or maybe even one.

 

[WildBB]

If you pay him a $12M bonus over 2 years you cant avoid the $6M hit in the second year. He is never going to sign a one year deal.

Yeah...That was never an option.

 

[joeshmo]

Didn't Cards up the offer to something similar?

Money yes, structure no.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

He said he was leaning that way. Plus he said he would consider other options.

True.

I shouldn't have been so concrete in my statement, but I don't believe for one second that Kurt ever even considered signing with someone else.

I'm surprised that anyone out there doesn't believe that Kurt isn't just going through the motions.

 

[bg7brd]

By the way you can tell by the sticking point to this negotiation the Cardinals have little faith that Warner will be playing in 2010.

What are the cap ramifications of Matt AND Kurt in 2010 Joe? I am assuming Matt would have to restructure - which if he doesn't get playing time he will not do.

You hit the nail on the head. I think Leinart is due a 15 mil bonus next year so ideally Warner only plays one more year and then the Cards restructure Leinart going forward. I think that's why the FO wants the club option for 2010. With the current deal on the table Kurt is going to play for 2 more years so I'm sure Leinart will ask for a trade. Why would he restructure his contract when he could very well be the back up again 2010. He most likely would say pay me the bonus or release me.

 

[perivolaki]

I actually like what Graves is doing by trying to put all of the guarenteed money on this coming season.

I may be wrong, but the way I understood it, Kurt's proposal would signify the end of the Leinart's career in Arizona unless the team really falls in love with him this year. Kurt will be counted for 6mill against the cap in 2010 next year no matter what happens and with Leinart's already high price for that season I am anxious to see what the Cards will do.

This is what's so interesting about these negotiations and completely backward from most other contract talks that are done.

Most players want as much money up front as they can get. If they can get all the bonus in year one so much the better. The Cards in the past wanted to spread the bonus out over several years so the pain of spending that bonus money wouldn't hurt so much.

Now the Cards and Warner are on opposite sides of the fence from where they normally would set.

The Cards are in a better financial situation than in the past and would rather have more put into year one so if Warner goes bad they can cut the cord and hand the reigns to Leinart.

Warner wants it spread out so he has more of a guarantee that they keep him around for year two and not go to Leinart.

Oh the tangled web we weave.

 

[D-Dogg]

Wouldnt him giving the 49ers the time of day then also make him a lair if he never had any intentions of actually giving them a shot. Also Warner never flat out said Cards or Retirement. He just stated his preference, it was never a black or white statement.

His agent is not going to say the 49ers made a bigger offer unless they actually did. Its a small group and he doesnt want to be known as a liar and he doesnt want to screw over the 49ers by making them out to be a patsy. Plus the 49ers knew what we were offering from day one and the second offer considering Warner was still there when we made the second offer, they wouldnt have rolled out the red carpet for Warner and his wife if they didnt feel they could raise the stakes.

You mean the last several starts where he was struggling with a third HC and OC in three years, in a system where Kurt also didn't look good? You mean when Warner came in to run a spread it out, hurry up offense that played to his strengths? The style of offense that Kurt continued to run this year?

Or do you mean the rookie starts where he looked promising, leading us to wins that were taken away by the foot of Rackers? Games where both times the defense/STs allowed teams (bears and KC) to take late game leads only to see Matt march the team up into FG range and see his kicker fail him?

I'm getting a little bit fed up with this revisionist history on Leinart. He hasn't proven that he's going to be great, but he also hasn't proven to be worth half the slop tossed on him either.

 

[Reddog]

You could if you made the 12 mill a roster bonus for this season instead of a signing bonus.

But a roster bonus gives the option to the team to cut him before that time.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I think Warner is worth that type of money to the team right now.

BUT who knows which Warner will show up next year ?

To pick a side: I would take the big money gamble and sign Warner. I think he will be able to produce close to what he did last year, and our QB situation will be phenominal once again.

Warner
Lienart
BSP

That is some serious QB depth.

 

[TJ]

Why do we thik Matt is "adequate"? Am I the only one who watched his last several starts? I am not much for conspiracy theories etc, but I am beginning to agree with the poster who said they feel Whiz doesnt care for Matt and that St Pierre might be the #2 next year....

Matt has the tools to be a very successful QB in this league. Its easy to bag on him because of the two-time MVP we have playing ahead of him right now. Leinart, in 16 starts in less-than-stable circumstances (if you were a cards fan during the Denny era, you can't argue with that), is 7-9. He has had time to learn the system and work on his mechanics. If and when he is given the torch back, he will be a better QB than previously displayed.

I noticed that in the short time he was in the games last season, his passes were much crisper and left his hand with more velocity rather than looking like wounded ducks.

 

[dogpoo32]

I hope this falls through. Just sign with SF Kurt.

 

[perivolaki]

Matt has the tools to be a very successful QB in this league. Its easy to bag on him because of the two-time MVP we have playing ahead of him right now. Leinart, in 16 starts in less-than-stable circumstances (if you were a cards fan during the Denny era, you can't argue with that), is 7-9. He has had time to learn the system and work on his mechanics. If and when he is given the torch back, he will be a better QB than previously displayed.

I noticed that in the short time he was in the games last season, his passes were much crisper and left his hand with more velocity rather than looking like wounded ducks.

Couldn't agree more. The offensive line wasn't nearly as settled two years ago as it is now either. Warner had some time to throw this year. Matty didn't have any time when he was quarterbacking.

 

[abomb]

Another thing I am not betting on is if Warner can stay healthy for the majority of the season after a season in which he started 20 games.

 

[CHAPTER 7]

Dumb question here. What if we work on Q's deal now. Then tell Kurt that we need more $ and we can only offer him $10M per. that's like extr $4M to Q. Kurt has his wish that Q is going to get more $ to stay. Really, why not put these two's contract side by side to work things out?

 

[dogpoo32]

Another thing I am not betting on is if Warner can stay healthy for the majority of the season after a season in which he started 20 games.

If we overpay him, he has a 100% chance of getting hurt.

 

[WildBB]

True.

I shouldn't have been so concrete in my statement, but I don't believe for one second that Kurt ever even considered signing with someone else.

I'm surprised that anyone out there doesn't believe that Kurt isn't just going through the motions.

You know he wishes he didn't or should't have had to if the Cardinals made a better offer. 10M with no guarantee's for another year wasn't competitive/ realistic offer, IMO. It was an OK starting point. And apparently the Cardinals conquered, because they uped the offer too. w/o any guarantee on the 2nd yr. however.

 

[WildBB]

Another thing I am not betting on is if Warner can stay healthy for the majority of the season after a season in which he started 20 games.

At 38, he's more durable than Leinart is.