Warner over 400 yards

[Russ Smith]

Its an assumption to think KW is just going to go out and play like he did against the Jets again. Let see what happens if he plays that poorly in the next 2 by all means bench him and bring on leinart. My guess would be he as well as the team will be fired up with the way that game went and come out firing at home. The thing about KW is he is a QB he has that ability to forget about mistakes and just move on, which say what you want you have to have as a QB, can't let the mistakes linger with you all game. I feel like KW feels extremely bad with how that game played out and will be taking it out on the Bills secondary, and man if Boldin plays this team will be inspired and I for one will not be shocked to see them hand Buffalo their first loss.

If he plays that badly again he might not get 2 quarters let alone 2 games. The next game is at home so there's no weather related issues, I think we all hope that Sunday was because it was wet and an anomaly.

the scary thing is if you look at his recent career numbers his bad games in terms of picks and fumbles they bunch together, there's not one here one there it's weeks in a row until he gets benched.

I'm hoping this was because of the rain he doesn't seem to have been hit enough yet where he could be showing the effects of being hit a lot.
Let's hope the 2nd half was an indicator of what's to come not the first half.

 

[earthsci]

Mokler, you mention the poor blocking - but I counted three times in which Kurt simply made the wrong choice with the ball. Those were BIG turnovers. They weren't on the line.

I wasn't thrilled with the line play on Sunday. But I think it's a bit of reach to blame the line for some of Kurt's poor choices.

The pick 6 was clearly the lines fault. They didn't have those TWO rushers far enough out of the way so Kurt could have a better view.



Oh, yeah.

 

[nashman]

We shall see Russ, I for one am anxious to see how it turns out. I would also be curious if the Leinart backers would go away if Warner came out and lit up the Bills then the Boys and we were 4-2 at the bye? Dallas and Buffalo are both beatable teams if we play well and someone decides to make some plays on Defense.

 

[earthsci]

I would also be curious if the Leinart backers would go away if Warner came out and lit up the Bills then the Boys and we were 4-2 at the bye?

First of all, as a "Leinart backer", no we won't go away because we are Cards fans. Not Leinart fans. That can't be said for all of the "Warner backers". Second of all, if you are talking about the complaining, look at the threads after the first two games. Everyone was happy.

 

[Cheesebeef]

We shall see Russ, I for one am anxious to see how it turns out. I would also be curious if the Leinart backers would go away if Warner came out and lit up the Bills then the Boys and we were 4-2 at the bye?

99% of the board just wants the team to win and they don't care how it gets done. You wonder if the Leinart backers would "go away" if we won the next two games? I'll answer you pretty simply:

No, they'd be happy as a pie in the sky, giving Warner his props just like they did the first two games of the season when he played well and we won.

Why you wonder about this is beyond me. People just want to see us win. Period.

and let me ask another question. Why do people have to be in one group or the other? I'm not a Leinart backer as much a I am a Cardinal backer and if the old guy with very little future ain't getting the job done, it's not that I want Matt in because I like him (at this point I'm incredibly dissappointed in him), I want Matt in to find out if we need to move on from him as well. Why waste both this year AND next year? That's the way I (and I'm assuming the majority of the "leinart backers") look at it.

 

[nashman]

I like Leinart and hope he is successful I just don't think he is ready yet. When you play and you do nothing but dink and dunk with the recievers we have it just makes one wonder does he not grasp the offense or he just doesn't have the arm to make the throws. I hope I am wrong I really do, I would much have a QB for years to come rather than Warner. But right now for the Cardinals and the team I want to win, Warner is the guy that should be QB.

 

[Russ Smith]

We shall see Russ, I for one am anxious to see how it turns out. I would also be curious if the Leinart backers would go away if Warner came out and lit up the Bills then the Boys and we were 4-2 at the bye? Dallas and Buffalo are both beatable teams if we play well and someone decides to make some plays on Defense.

I think Leinart backers is a bad way of saying Cards fans.

If Kurt plays well we have a chance to win both games, if he plays like he did Sunday we'll get blown out both games. It's quite simple if you turn the ball over you lose more often than not.

If Kurt is going to revert to king turnover, he shouldn't be playing. If he isn't, he should be playing. None of us know yet which Kurt is going to show against Buffalo.

That's the problem with Kurt, there's no obvious tell that he's about to put the ball on the ground over and over you keep assuming that was a fluke, until he does the same thing again.

 

[nashman]

Which one is the anomaly this year Russ? The first few games he took care of the ball I think its safe to assume that he can do that as well as people assuming he is going to start coughing it up at the rate he did in the Jets game. I mean has he ever had a game as bad as that one?, and if so has he ever had more that one of those terrible games a season? Just curious. And to be clear the Leinart backers I was speaking of are the ones that think he should be starting right now because Warner had a bad half!

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Which one is the anomaly this year Russ? The first few games he took care of the ball I think its safe to assume that he can do that as well as people assuming he is going to start coughing it up at the rate he did in the Jets game. I mean has he ever had a game as bad as that one?, and if so has he ever had more that one of those terrible games a season? Just curious. And to be clear the Leinart backers I was speaking of are the ones that think he should be starting right now because Warner had a bad half!

How about you take a look at Warner's career and tell us.

How fitting is it that Warner is starting because Leinart had a bad half..... in a preseason game that doesn't matter.

Oh, and comparing those halves of football, Warner nearly had TWICE the amount of turnovers as Leinart. If it wasn't for James hustling and stealing the ball away, it would have been 6 turnovers.

 

[Spielman]

Cheesebeef's right. Warner's pretty much the opposite of what cheesebeef wants in a QB, and I'm convinced that he discounts Warner's positives too much, both past and present, but he's still right.

I'm a huge Warner fan, but jeez, how much more obvious can it be what he is at this point? He's a damned useful backup because he's got the guts and talent to come into any game and win it. There are few guys I'd have as much confidence in to come in and win one key game for an injured starter. He just can't hold it together long-term, and he'll get you killed if he stays out there week in and week out. I think it's getting knocked around. He gets hit, he loses a bit of concentration and starts making bad throws and failing to secure the ball.

Frankly, it'd be awesome to see somebody use him like John Madden did George Blanda, as a reliever, much as Whisenhunt was doing last year. Too bad that's an ego killer and probably won't work long term. The best thing for the Cardinals would be to put Leinart back in and let him actually prove that he can't do it.

Of course, while we're caught up with QB navel-gazing, it'd be nice to see some better line play, and a defense that occasionally stops somebody.

 

[Russ Smith]

Which one is the anomaly this year Russ? The first few games he took care of the ball I think its safe to assume that he can do that as well as people assuming he is going to start coughing it up at the rate he did in the Jets game. I mean has he ever had a game as bad as that one?, and if so has he ever had more that one of those terrible games a season? Just curious. And to be clear the Leinart backers I was speaking of are the ones that think he should be starting right now because Warner had a bad half!

Yes he has, his last game as the Rams starter was that bad, worse, but he had a concussion in that game to explain it away.

He had 5 picks against Seattle last year, 4 and a lost fumble against SF last year. That's 2 in the same year.

I don't expect 6 turnovers in another game this year but largely because I don't believe Whiz will allow him that leeway again. If he starts another game like he started Sunday I think Whiz will assume something is physically wrong and go to Matt.

 

[Russ Smith]

Cheesebeef's right. Warner's pretty much the opposite of what cheesebeef wants in a QB, and I'm convinced that he discounts Warner's positives too much, both past and present, but he's still right.

I'm a huge Warner fan, but jeez, how much more obvious can it be what he is at this point? He's a damned useful backup because he's got the guts and talent to come into any game and win it. There are few guys I'd have as much confidence in to come in and win one key game for an injured starter. He just can't hold it together long-term, and he'll get you killed if he stays out there week in and week out. I think it's getting knocked around. He gets hit, he loses a bit of concentration and starts making bad throws and failing to secure the ball.

Frankly, it'd be awesome to see somebody use him like John Madden did George Blanda, as a reliever, much as Whisenhunt was doing last year. Too bad that's an ego killer and probably won't work long term. The best thing for the Cardinals would be to put Leinart back in and let him actually prove that he can't do it.

Of course, while we're caught up with QB navel-gazing, it'd be nice to see some better line play, and a defense that occasionally stops somebody.

Agreed, the fumbles we've kind of come to expect from Kurt but the play Sunday that was scary was the 2 man rush picksix to Revis because there's no logical explanation for that throw.

Ben had one like that last night but on replay you can see he tried to stop the throw but the ball squirted out right to Ngata. IN Kurt's case he looked over the whole field and decided the best decision was to throw the ball half speed to Boldin in the flat where he was clearly covered.

For a veteran QB to make that bad of a decision is a clear sign the guy is flustered, confused and that's a bit disconcerting because at that point in the game Kurt hadn't been hit very much.

 

[MadCardDisease]

If he starts another game like he started Sunday I think Whiz will assume something is physically wrong and go to Matt.

He started the game by twice driving the Cards down to the Jets 9 yard line. Yes he failed to protect the ball on that first fumble but that is correctable. I don't think there is anything physically wrong with him. In fact I thought he looked pretty good in the first quarter I was feeling good about the Cards chances going into the second quarter. Then everything that could go wrong went wrong in the second.

 

[Russ Smith]

He started the game by twice driving the Cards down to the Jets 9 yard line. Yes he failed to protect the ball on that first fumble but that is correctable. I don't think there is anything physically wrong with him. In fact I thought he looked pretty good in the first quarter I was feeling good about the Cards chances going into the second quarter. Then everything that could go wrong went wrong.

I mean first half not literally start of the game. I agree started well until the end of the first 2 drives, then went to hell in a handbasket.

I don't think there was anything wrong physically either I'm just saying if it happens again this week that will be the logical assumption because it's unlikely weather is going to play any role this week.

Hopefully Kurt comes out, lights it up, we keep Lynch, Edwards and Evans off the field.

I have to admit the way our DB's looked I'm a bit scared about facing a guy like Lee Evans. The Jets WR's for the most part aren't burners and ran right past us. I sure hope with Evans speed, Rolle is not anywhere near the LOS.

 

[Spielman]

For a veteran QB to make that bad of a decision is a clear sign the guy is flustered, confused and that's a bit disconcerting because at that point in the game Kurt hadn't been hit very much.

All it takes is one hit, if it's the right/wrong hit. I dunno if that hit occured, but the mental difference between being able to stand back there and make good decisions while large men attempt to kill you and getting flummoxed and doing something weird is probably a lot smaller than non-QBs appreciate.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Agreed, the fumbles we've kind of come to expect from Kurt but the play Sunday that was scary was the 2 man rush picksix to Revis because there's no logical explanation for that throw.

Ben had one like that last night but on replay you can see he tried to stop the throw but the ball squirted out right to Ngata. IN Kurt's case he looked over the whole field and decided the best decision was to throw the ball half speed to Boldin in the flat where he was clearly covered.

For a veteran QB to make that bad of a decision is a clear sign the guy is flustered, confused and that's a bit disconcerting because at that point in the game Kurt hadn't been hit very much.

Not only that but did you see the play with 4 seconds left in the half? I mean have you EVER seen a QB so non chalant back there holding the ball like a loaf of bread so deep into our own territory? That was embarassing and no excuse for a vet. I have seen nothing like that before......

I ask anyone who TIVO'ed the game to go back and look at that play. What a joke......

 

[Russ Smith]

Not only that but did you see the play with 4 seconds left in the half? I mean have you EVER seen a QB so non chalant back there holding the ball like a loaf of bread so deep into our own territory? That was embarassing and no excuse for a vet. I have seen nothing like that before......

I ask anyone who TIVO'ed the game to go back and look at that play. What a joke......

To be fair I blame whiz for the last fumble, he should have had Kurt take a knee and go to halftime.

 

[moklerman]

I wasn't thrilled with the line play on Sunday. But I think it's a bit of reach to blame the line for some of Kurt's poor choices.

You're right and I don't blame the line for any of his poor decisions. He was clearly rattled in the second quarter and his problems were all compounded by the team's other problems. Speaking of just the passing game, I wonder why the receivers have consistently had a problem getting off the line and getting their heads around? It happened a few times in the Jets game but it's been there at other times too.

ESPN focused on a "2 man route" by Baltimore last night and spotlighted a good throw by Flacco into a window of four Steeler defenders. It made me think of the "2 man route" by Arizona vs. the Jets. I can't review it because I deleted the Tivo in disgust but it seems to me that on that occasion, and a couple of others, the commentator pointed out that Warner had nowhere to go with the ball because the coverage was too good. Warner obviously tried to force the issue(s) but why are the Card's receivers now having trouble getting open? Is it because there's no respect for the running game? The timing between the QB and receivers? Warner being too slow in his decisions? This of course applies primarily to the 2nd quarter but has reared it's head in the red zone a little bit too(sidenote to the red zone "ineffectiveness" that I got from the podcast: 2 of the attempts were end-of-game kneel downs that are skewing the % in the wrong direction. Just a nugget to keep in mind for those that are tired of everything being completely negative.)

To be fair I blame whiz for the last fumble, he should have had Kurt take a knee and go to halftime.

I also agree with this. It was Warner's fault during the play but Whis has been making some real head-scratching decisions the last couple of weeks. The 4th & 4 was debatable but the last sequence of the 2nd quarter and the last of the 4th quarter were really poor ideas. It's almost ironic that he's dealing with trying to get Warner to learn when to cut and run and he goes out and makes the coaching equivelant of the same error twice in the same game. Warner's stuff doesn't surprise me because it's always been his problem. I hope that he can somehow overcome it but it's not like it's a surprise when he has one of his "other shoe has dropped" games. Whis' decision making being a problem would be a real problem.

Somehow, I think the team needs to get back to the fundamentals of games 1 & 2 and just try to keep things close until they can accurately identify how a team is going to play them. My instinct is to start the game in no-huddle but that might be too risky. Run, run, third & long won't work either so I'm glad I'm not left to make the decision. Warner just has to remember that it's okay to punt.

 

[Russ Smith]

Not only that but did you see the play with 4 seconds left in the half? I mean have you EVER seen a QB so non chalant back there holding the ball like a loaf of bread so deep into our own territory? That was embarassing and no excuse for a vet. I have seen nothing like that before......

I ask anyone who TIVO'ed the game to go back and look at that play. What a joke......

I would add on the point somewhere here about when they rushed 2 and he threw the pick because he can't run. that's a real issue, 9 guys in coverage make it REALLY hard to get open, especially on timing routes.

The reason teams don't do that regularly is they're so defenseless against the run and in particular the QB run. As Walt has said before when teams play man to man against you their big fear is the Qb running because there is
no CB to come up and often no safety.

When teams drop 9 it's similar there's 2 guys rushing the QB and if he breaks their contain its' anybody's guess where the next line of defense will come from. now Matt's no sprinter he's not going to get 30 yards on a play like that but we have seen him run in that situation(remember his first preseason game against New England as a rookie for example). We have seen him recognize they are just dropping everyone it's wide open to run. I think he had like a 15 yard run in that game on a play like that IIRC?

That's where Kurt not being able to run at all hurts us and I'm somewhat surprised we don't see that defense more often. I assume they're just afraid Kurt will read it, audible to a run play and get big yardage.