Warner's Take on Leinart

[conraddobler]

Matt got his shot. So far he has lost it. Its really not that hard.

He's not gotten his shot for over two years.

Ancient history does not count.

 

[Shane]

man shane i can't wait until we cut matt and start anderson and you can watch the season blow up,

i haven't read all your posts but some here have said you have stated your support or a preference for matt but then take every opportunity to slam him

if thats true and you get what you really want a derrick anderson led team you are going to regret it
mark it and make me eat crow if i'm wrong

I ABSOLUTELY want Matt starting. He is my preference.

That being said I support whatever decision the coach makes 100% If the coach says Matt isn't out best option I will go with it.

Can you tell me where I "keep slamming" Matt?

All I have ever done since this fiasco started is try and tell or give reasons why this has happened. Because IMO Whiz has been very clear about it if anyone just chooses to listen. Yet you have a majority of people on here consistently asking "why?" The answer is plain as day and staring at you right in the face IMO.

 

[Shane]

He's not gotten his shot for over two years.

Ancient history does not count.

he got his shot this year. he was annointed the starter. You know things aren't static in the NFL and they can change right? If he wasn't doing what he is supposed to do regular season or not he lost it. The timing is irrelevant.

 

[MrYeahBut]

As a fan that's all I wanted, I do not want to go with Matt no matter what, I simply would like to see him play.

This

 

[conraddobler]

I ABSOLUTELY want Matt starting. He is my preference.

That being said I support whatever decision the coach makes 100% If the coach says Matt isn't out best option I will go with it.

Can you tell me where I "keep slamming" Matt?

All I have ever done since this fiasco started is try and tell or give reasons why this has happened. Because IMO Whiz has been very clear about it if anyone just chooses to listen. Yet you have a majority of people on here consistently asking "why?" The answer is plain as day and staring at you right in the face IMO.

I'm a fan of the team not the coach or a player.

The coach IMO is wrong here, and if he is not wrong now, then he was wrong to let it get to this point.

Either way, like the captain of a ship, he's the guilty party here, either he was too dumb to know Matt would never be what he wanted or he's doing this for non-football related reasons.

In either case he's the one at fault IMO on this issue.

 

[Shane]

I'm a fan of the team not the coach or a player.

The coach IMO is wrong here, and if he is not wrong now, then he was wrong to let it get to this point.

Either way, like the captain of a ship, he's the guilty party here, either he was too dumb to know Matt would never be what he wanted or he's doing this for non-football related reasons.

In either case he's the idiot IMO here on this issue alone.

Or he was told by management he we have 40 million invested in this bozo. We want you to give the guy the chance to turn it around. If he doesnt fin but we have to much invested to not at least try.

You do realize that this is the cardinals right?

 

[Pariah]

Technically you are right.

I'm hanging on to this for as long as I can!

 

[Capital Card]

He's managed the offense quite well this offseason in very limited opportunities. He's spread the ball around, avoided sacks, got rid of the ball quickly while being hit and completing the pass, had sustained drives, scored points, NOT turned the ball over. He's had a grand total of what, 6 drives in 3 games?

When's the last time this offense was hitting on all cylinders in the preseason anyway? Look what Warner did last preseason. 52%, 0TD, 3INT. Did he not know the offense? Just imagine if Leinart put up those numbers.

As Whiz said, the evaluation is not about the STAT's.


I'm disappointed Matt appears to have been demoted, but I'll defer to the coaching staff to make the best choice. They've lifted this organaziation far higher than I ever thought possible.

One thing that I've noticed (and admittedly I haven't tracked every possession) When Kurt used to return to the sideline during a failed drive, his first stop was usually right to Coach Whiz.

With Matt, he appears to duck the coach and head straight for the water table, then to the bench by himself. I'm not claiming this happens every time, but I definately noticed it in the Titan game. Perhaps he'd already been told he wasn't going back in... I don't know. I no longer have the game on DVR, so I can't go back and check.

Go Cards!!!

 

[AzStevenCal]

He's managed the offense quite well this offseason in very limited opportunities. He's spread the ball around, avoided sacks, got rid of the ball quickly while being hit and completing the pass, had sustained drives, scored points, NOT turned the ball over. He's had a grand total of what, 6 drives in 3 games?

I don't know who you're talking about but I say let's find this guy and sign him up. He sounds a heck of a lot better than EITHER of the 2 veteran QB's I've watched this preseason. How many points did this superstar lead his team to? I'll bet the guy you're talking about really would have looked good against that Bears team we just played since they were missing most of their best defensive players.

Steve

 

[D-Dogg]

I have. DA isn't what we are debating. Plus his TD/Int ratio is better than Matt's the last I checked.

Toast vs. DA is exactly what we are debating. It's the only choice. Toast v. Toast isn't the debate.

And Toast has thrown 1 more career INT than DA in his "pro bowl" year. Last year DA threw half of Toast's career INTs in 7 games.

Toast has 17 starts and his TD/INT ratio is that of a guy with that amount of starts. DA has had 34 and is 1:1 with a 67 passer rating career.

Of the two guys, I trust Toast to protect the ball more than DA, by a mile. DA's last two years have shown 12 TDs and 18 INT. Toast's entire career is 14 TD and 20 INT - most of those in mop-up duty.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I think it's coming down to the fact that Leinart and Whis' definition of "hard work" is completely different.

This is simply a hunch but Leinart may think hard work is showing up for practice, team meetings, and watching film. Basically, the bare minimum that's asked of him. Whis is probably looking for Leinart to go above and beyond the basics considering Toast is the leader of this team.

What's above and beyond Leinarts definition of "hard work"??? He should have learned that from Warner who, outside of his basic duties as the Cardinals QB, routinely worked w/ Whis and Haley to design new plays, text them constantly w/ ideas, sat with the coaches on plane flights to discuss the offense, etc.

Oh, I guess I should have started w/ "talk to your head coach."

Nail on the head.

Leinart's toughness is also an issue, the guy won't take a hit to make a big play.

 

[Russ Smith]

Manning would not have let WR's line up in the wrong spots. He would not have run plays that way etc.. etc... That just wouldn't have happened. That's what managing a game is all about.

If you notice in all 3 of my "who impressed you and why" threads form the pre-season games, Matt Leinart is at or near the top of my list. But that's purely the physical aspect. There is so much more to it than that.

Well now I'm going to have to say this as don't quote me because I just googled it and couldn't find it. But I would swear that I read an article a few months ago that said the INT in the Superbowl was a play where Manning said he actually shouldn't have run the play he did but he decided not to audible and threw the pick that basically won the game for NO.

I have no idea where I read it but I am almost positive I read it because it really surprised me given his reputation for calling his own game at the LOS.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I think it's coming down to the fact that Leinart and Whis' definition of "hard work" is completely different.

This is simply a hunch but Leinart may think hard work is showing up for practice, team meetings, and watching film. Basically, the bare minimum that's asked of him. Whis is probably looking for Leinart to go above and beyond the basics considering Toast is the leader of this team.

What's above and beyond Leinarts definition of "hard work"??? He should have learned that from Warner who, outside of his basic duties as the Cardinals QB, routinely worked w/ Whis and Haley to design new plays, text them constantly w/ ideas, sat with the coaches on plane flights to discuss the offense, etc.

Oh, I guess I should have started w/ "talk to your head coach."

That's a lot of assumptions you've got there.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Of the two guys, I trust Toast to protect the ball more than DA, by a mile. DA's last two years have shown 12 TDs and 18 INT. Toast's entire career is 14 TD and 20 INT - most of those in mop-up duty.

I don't think "taking care of the ball" is what Whiz is looking for. He's looking to score points. Leinart can't consistently move an offense because he checks down and won't let plays develop. Anderson makes things happen vertically, the check downs will always be there.

Whisenhunt does not think DA will all of a sudden stop making turnovers. He just knows he'll score some points along with them like Kurt did. People seem to forget that Warner had 20+ turnovers every year under Whiz.

 

[Evil Ash]

Not according to Whiz. We're all trying to read into what he's saying, and we might be right. But so far he said the depth chart hasn't changed.

Correct. The starter for the next preseason game hasn't even been announced yet.

Like with everything else in this situation, we're all just speculating

 

[desertrat218]

Have you ever watched DA play football? Honestly? If this is TO battle, DA doesn't win.

Career stats, Leinart 14 TDs, 20 interceptions, Anderson 46 TDs, 45 interceptions.

 

[john h]

Manning would not have let WR's line up in the wrong spots. He would not have run plays that way etc.. etc... That just wouldn't have happened. That's what managing a game is all about.

If you notice in all 3 of my "who impressed you and why" threads form the pre-season games, Matt Leinart is at or near the top of my list. But that's purely the physical aspect. There is so much more to it than that.

We have all got to used to watching Kurt Warner run a game. Half the time he would change the play at the line of scrimmage after looking over the defense. He got rid of the ball so fast he was seldom sacked even with a marginal line. With all his experience he was a coach on the field and could see things that Matt will likely never see. Matt is never going to be a Kurt Warner. He apparently does not have the leadership skills of Kurt. In fact he will never be a Kurt Warner. I recall last year posting we are really going to go into a funk when Kurt leaves as we had come to accept his play as normal. It was not normal. He is a future hall of fame QB and the best QB in Cardinal history. You saw the best we may ever have at QB last year. Now we are like the Cards of old and have not yet played a real NFL game with whoever our new QB will be. This team is built to be a throwing team as we have perhaps the best group of receivers in the NFL. We will sink or drown based on our ability to throw the ball down field as well as the 5 yd dinks. I do not know if Matt or DA is our best choice. I think Whiz knows better than anyone and will go with who ever he selects. The QB's have made their own beds and now must sleep in them. I remain a Cards fan and am not beholden to either Matt or DA. I was beholden to Kurt Warner as he took us to the super-bowl among other things and did it with class. I miss him already. I would think the players do also.

 

[Russ Smith]

That's a lot of assumptions you've got there.

Yep and it makes no sense because whiz is on record that Matt has worked very hard the last 2 years. If that weren't true, Whiz wouldn't say it was, that's not his style IMHO. If he thinks someone is lazy the last thing he'll do is reward that laziness by declaring the guy a hard worker.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Yep and it makes no sense because whiz is on record that Matt has worked very hard the last 2 years. If that weren't true, Whiz wouldn't say it was, that's not his style IMHO. If he thinks someone is lazy the last thing he'll do is reward that laziness by declaring the guy a hard worker.

Exactly. He has publicly called out Branch for example for his work ethic. He wouldn't have any problem doing the same with Leinart.

 

[moklerman]

He sounds a heck of a lot better than EITHER of the 2 veteran QB's I've watched this preseason.

Then I have to question your perception of what a QB is supposed to be doing.

How many points did this superstar lead his team to?

How many opportunities did he have? 23 pass attempts in 3 games to show his stuff. Man, I thought the standards set for Warner to be above reproach were high but this has to be a Cardinals thing. The widespread criticism of one's own potential franchise QB--while choosing Derek Anderson as the better alternative is just medical grade crazy talk to me.

Leinart's toughness is also an issue, the guy won't take a hit to make a big play.

Bubkus. I can think of two plays right off the top of my head where he took big hits to complete a pass just this preseason.

But I would swear that I read an article a few months ago that said the INT in the Superbowl was a play where Manning said he actually shouldn't have run the play he did but he decided not to audible and threw the pick that basically won the game for NO.

You don't even have to go that far. Warner did the same thing against the Steelers when he ran the play with Boldin out of place that resulted in a pick-6.

Everyone keeps saying that this switch is a cumulative gathering of information but I really don't see how that's possible. Has Leinart been glaringly different this preseason than he has in recent years? In practice, the film room, etc.? If not, this is about the first two preseason games shocking Whis into making a change.

And if that's the case, then I can't agree with him and his decision.

 

[Russ Smith]

Well now I'm going to have to say this as don't quote me because I just googled it and couldn't find it. But I would swear that I read an article a few months ago that said the INT in the Superbowl was a play where Manning said he actually shouldn't have run the play he did but he decided not to audible and threw the pick that basically won the game for NO.

I have no idea where I read it but I am almost positive I read it because it really surprised me given his reputation for calling his own game at the LOS.

And I'm officially senile. It just dawned on me what I was actually referring to and not only was it not Manning, it was a Cardinal QB.

Remember the infamous Harrison pick and return for a TD in the Superbowl? Remember how we were all told that Boldin(?) lined up incorrectly on the play he was either too wide or too tight(forget which) and that's why Harrison read the play and fell into coverage?

So what was a huge play in that game happened because Warner ran a play with a WR lined up incorrectly.

And I'm not blasting Kurt, I'm pointing out it happens, and even in Super Bowl games with star WR's, not just opening preseason games with rookie Wr's.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

And I'm officially senile. It just dawned on me what I was actually referring to and not only was it not Manning, it was a Cardinal QB.

Remember the infamous Harrison pick and return for a TD in the Superbowl? Remember how we were all told that Boldin(?) lined up incorrectly on the play he was either too wide or too tight(forget which) and that's why Harrison read the play and fell into coverage?

So what was a huge play in that game happened because Warner ran a play with a WR lined up incorrectly.

And I'm not blasting Kurt, I'm pointing out it happens, and even in Super Bowl games with star WR's, not just opening preseason games with rookie Wr's.

Paging Shane......

 

[kerouac9]

Toast vs. DA is exactly what we are debating. It's the only choice. Toast v. Toast isn't the debate.

And Toast has thrown 1 more career INT than DA in his "pro bowl" year. Last year DA threw half of Toast's career INTs in 7 games.

Toast has 17 starts and his TD/INT ratio is that of a guy with that amount of starts. DA has had 34 and is 1:1 with a 67 passer rating career.

Of the two guys, I trust Toast to protect the ball more than DA, by a mile. DA's last two years have shown 12 TDs and 18 INT. Toast's entire career is 14 TD and 20 INT - most of those in mop-up duty.

Co-sign.

Nail on the head.

Leinart's toughness is also an issue, the guy won't take a hit to make a big play.

You must not have been watching the preseason very closely, because Matt's been getting hammered in the pocket with the first team offense. The WRs have to get into their routes for Leinart to make the play downfield, and the time hasn't been there.

I don't think "taking care of the ball" is what Whiz is looking for. He's looking to score points. Leinart can't consistently move an offense because he checks down and won't let plays develop. Anderson makes things happen vertically, the check downs will always be there.

Whisenhunt does not think DA will all of a sudden stop making turnovers. He just knows he'll score some points along with them like Kurt did. People seem to forget that Warner had 20+ turnovers every year under Whiz.

Anderson hasn't shown that he's very good at scoring points the last two years, or he wouldn't have been benched multiple times for Brady Quinn. It's not like Derek Anderson has been lighting up the scoreboard for us this preseason, either.

Anderson hasn't "made things happen vertically" for this team in the preseason, and he hasn't "made things happen vertically" for the Browns for two-plus years.

That may be what Whis thinks, but it's not in line with reality.

 

[red desert]

We have all got to used to watching Kurt Warner run a game. Half the time he would change the play at the line of scrimmage after looking over the defense. He got rid of the ball so fast he was seldom sacked even with a marginal line. With all his experience he was a coach on the field and could see things that Matt will likely never see. Matt is never going to be a Kurt Warner. He apparently does not have the leadership skills of Kurt. In fact he will never be a Kurt Warner. I recall last year posting we are really going to go into a funk when Kurt leaves as we had come to accept his play as normal. It was not normal. He is a future hall of fame QB and the best QB in Cardinal history. You saw the best we may ever have at QB last year. Now we are like the Cards of old and have not yet played a real NFL game with whoever our new QB will be. This team is built to be a throwing team as we have perhaps the best group of receivers in the NFL. We will sink or drown based on our ability to throw the ball down field as well as the 5 yd dinks. I do not know if Matt or DA is our best choice. I think Whiz knows better than anyone and will go with who ever he selects. The QB's have made their own beds and now must sleep in them. I remain a Cards fan and am not beholden to either Matt or DA. I was beholden to Kurt Warner as he took us to the super-bowl among other things and did it with class. I miss him already. I would think the players do also.

Well said.

 

[LarryStalling]

Manning would not have let WR's line up in the wrong spots. He would not have run plays that way etc.. etc... That just wouldn't have happened. That's what managing a game is all about.

If you notice in all 3 of my "who impressed you and why" threads form the pre-season games, Matt Leinart is at or near the top of my list. But that's purely the physical aspect. There is so much more to it than that.

how quickly people forget. I don't know how many times we were penalized last season for Breaston being lined up wrong, as being too far from the line of scrimage. So u can see that Warner was not perfect either.