Warner's Take on Leinart

[dogpoo32]

This thread is about what Warner said.

His views are pretty close to mine, it's not about all this other stuff, it's about a guy getting his shot to start as the starter and seeing how he does.

As a fan that's all I wanted, I do not want to go with Matt no matter what, I simply would like to see him play.

To those who think DA is good enough to forgo that option I disagree entirely, he's not IMO that good to even contemplate that.

I'd prefer to go with one of the rookies rather than do that.

On the money.

 

[conraddobler]

At this point I think they should just cut Matt, in a dog fight between who I more want on the team, Whiz or Matt it's not even close and it's pretty clear Whiz/Matt is a marriage made in hell.

I've said this for years that Whiz just dosen't like Matt, what I meant was he's not a fan of how he approaches the game, and that's been apparent for a long time.

So why we're still dealing with this has to be the FO conflicting with Whiz, I would bet huge money on it, but Whiz is going to win this one and he should, it still stinks to have to endure this as a fan.

Matt needs to go somewhere else, this is a dysfunctional relationship at best and always has been since Whiz got here.

We shouldn't go with DA though, although maybe Whiz is smarter than I think and he's going to cut Matt then let DA hang himself then go to the rookie.

Frankly at this point I just want this soap opera over with.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

You must not have been watching the preseason very closely, because Matt's been getting hammered in the pocket with the first team offense. The WRs have to get into their routes for Leinart to make the play downfield, and the time hasn't been there.

The time has been there for DA? Leinart is the one not making defenses pay for bringing heat. Leianrt the one who checks down every time because he still can't take a hit.

Anderson hasn't shown that he's very good at scoring points the last two years, or he wouldn't have been benched multiple times for Brady Quinn. It's not like Derek Anderson has been lighting up the scoreboard for us this preseason, either.

Anderson hasn't "made things happen vertically" for this team in the preseason, and he hasn't "made things happen vertically" for the Browns for two-plus years.

That may be what Whis thinks, but it's not in line with reality.

Well, at least he's willing to throw the ball more than 15 yards in the air which Leinart hasn't done except when either injuring our best player or throwing a mile wide of our emerging rookie WR. And let's not forget his last pass of 2009 when he put Anquan out for the playoffs. The guy's terrible.

Another thing to note is revisiting Anderson's poor track record recently without acknowledging that Leinart has been just as bad the last few years is extremely hypocritical. At least Anderson has shown something in his career (albeit only one season), Leinart's done nothing in every opportunity that he has been given.

Look, I'm not expecting much from DA. He had one fluke year and regressed massively thereafter. But Leinart is horse you know what on the field and a whiny self-entitled brat off of it. Dude needs to go, he's been given the starting job three times under Whiz and has failed miserably in each attempt. See ya f'ing later Matt. I'll take a bad QB who's a team guy and keeps his mouth shut over a locker room crybaby who sucks just as much on the field.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

The time has been there for DA? Leinart is the one not making defenses pay for bringing heat. Leianrt the one who checks down every time because he still can't take a hit.


Well, at least he's willing to throw the ball more than 15 yards in the air which Leinart hasn't done except when either injured our best player or threw a mile wide of our emerging rookie WR.

Another thing to note is revisiting Anderson's poor track record recently without acknowledging that Leinart has been just as bad the last few years is extremely hypocritical. At least Anderson has shown something in his career (albeit only one season), Leinart's done nothing in every opportunity that he has been given.

Look, I'm not expecting much from DA. He had one fluke year and regressed massively thereafter. But Leinart is horse you know what on the field and a whiny self-entitled brat off of it. Dude needs to go, he's been given the starting job three times under Whiz and has failed miserably in each attempt. See ya f'ing later Matt. I'll take a bad QB who's a team guy and keeps his mouth shut over a locker room crybaby who sucks just as much on the field.

If any this had more the passing relationship to the truth, if it could stand up to close analysis, I'd be with you. It doesn't, so I'm not.

 

[kerouac9]

The time has been there for DA? Leinart is the one not making defenses pay for bringing heat. Leianrt the one who checks down every time because he still can't take a hit.

With our #1 line against opposing #2s? Frequently yes. But even then DA hasn't been rocketing the ball down the field like apparently everyone thinks. You may think that's what he's going to do, but he hasn't done it yet.

Well, at least he's willing to throw the ball more than 15 yards in the air which Leinart hasn't done except when either injured our best player or threw a mile wide of our emerging rookie WR.

Another thing to note is revisiting Anderson's poor track record recently without acknowledging that Leinart has been just as bad the last few years is extremely hypocritical. At least Anderson has shown something in his career (albeit only one season), Leinart's done nothing in every opportunity that he has been given.

Look, I'm not expecting much from DA. He had one fluke year and regressed massively thereafter. But Leinart is horse you know what on the field and a whiny self-entitled brat off of it. Dude needs to go, he's been given the starting job three times under Whiz and has failed miserably in each attempt. See ya f'ing later Matt. I'll take a bad QB who's a team guy and keeps his mouth shut over a locker room crybaby who sucks just as much on the field.

When is Derek Anderson doing this? Because he hasn't done it as a Cardinal yet. He didn't do it as a Brown last season when more than 60% of his attempts were short.

I'm not sure where you're saying that Matt Leinart has been given chances the last two years? What chances? Mop up duty when he's not even given the NFL-average backup reps in practices? Derek Anderson has had 18 appearances and 16 starts the past two seasons and shown that he's terrible. The last two years Anderson's thrown 12 TDs and 18 INTs and averaged 5.38 YPA--that's in over 400 attempts.

The last two years Matt Leinart has attempted 136 passes. He's averaged 6.59 YPA. How are these situations even comperable? It certainly seems easy for y'all to draw some stark conclusions about a guy with no evidence to support it.

 

[Shane]

Paging Shane......

The play in the SB? IIRC the play was set up100% correctly. All the WR's were in the correct spot. There was speculation as to would the play work Had Fitz or Boldin I cant remember who lined up a 3 feet further out.

You guys are making it sound as though one of them should have been lined up to the left but was on the wrong side of the field.

Also Whiz is the one that has the problem with it. Thats really all that matters. I want Matt starting.

 

[Shane]

how quickly people forget. I don't know how many times we were penalized last season for Breaston being lined up wrong, as being too far from the line of scrimage. So u can see that Warner was not perfect either.

Umm that's not being in the wrong spot. Thats being to close to the line of scrimmage. Big difference.

 

[nashman]

Matt didn't get Fitz injured can we stop with the pure stupidity please! Whats Matt supposed to do throw the ball then go block anyone who might want to hit or take a cheap shot at one of our recievers. My god the absurd crap that people spew to try and make a case for DA is insane, dude has done NOTHING since he has been here you act like he is hooking up for long bombs every game and hes not! He is also careless with the ball and is a freaking TO machine I can't wait to hear people bitch when he is throwing INT's left and right and our offense sucks!

 

[Shane]

Matt didn't get Fitz injured

agree.

 

[LarryStalling]

Umm that's not being in the wrong spot. Thats being to close to the line of scrimmage. Big difference.

Actually, you are right. Breaston cost us 5 yards per penalty. How anyone can not count is beyond me. (Breaston)
The fact remains that it was not corrected.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

With our #1 line against opposing #2s? Frequently yes. But even then DA hasn't been rocketing the ball down the field like apparently everyone thinks. You may think that's what he's going to do, but he hasn't done it yet.

And Leinart has? Leinart has thrown two long passes in this preseason. One nearly killed Fitz and the other looked liked Josh McCown threw it. That's the ONLY two deep passes.

When is Derek Anderson doing this? Because he hasn't done it as a Cardinal yet. He didn't do it as a Brown last season when more than 60% of his attempts were short.

Anderson had a larger ratio of 10+ yard passes in 2009 than did KW.

I'm not sure where you're saying that Matt Leinart has been given chances the last two years? What chances? Mop up duty when he's not even given the NFL-average backup reps in practices? Derek Anderson has had 18 appearances and 16 starts the past two seasons and shown that he's terrible. The last two years Anderson's thrown 12 TDs and 18 INTs and averaged 5.38 YPA--that's in over 400 attempts.

Leinart was given the starting job at the beginning of 2007 and botched it before getting hurt. Whiz then came out before 2008 and said "nobody loses a job because of injury" and gave Leinart the nod during the offseason leading up the 2008. It took only a couple preseason games to realize he was awful and he lst it then. Same goes for 2010 offseason. Saying Leinart has not had plenty of chances is ridiculous. That's like saying Ali Highsmith hasn't had any chances.

The last two years Matt Leinart has attempted 136 passes. He's averaged 6.59 YPA. How are these situations even comperable? It certainly seems easy for y'all to draw some stark conclusions about a guy with no evidence to support it.

I'm guessing if Leinart had played well enough to beat out anybody to become a starter at any point in his Cardinal career he'd have sucked as bad as DA. Unfortunately we'll never know what would've happened had Leinart received more playing time. Most people however will look at the times when he has gotten burn and seen a QB that isn't very good and made judgments from that. It's not like there's no film on Leinart, plenty of it actually.

 

[kerouac9]

And Leinart has? Leinart has thrown two long passes in this preseason. One nearly killed Fitz and the other looked liked Josh McCown threw it. That's the ONLY two deep passes.

Anderson had a larger ratio of 10+ yard passes in 2009 than did KW.

Leinart was given the starting job at the beginning of 2007 and botched it before getting hurt. Whiz then came out before 2008 and said "nobody loses a job because of injury" and gave Leinart the nod during the offseason leading up the 2008. It took only a couple preseason games to realize he was awful and he lst it then. Same goes for 2010 offseason. Saying Leinart has not had plenty of chances is ridiculous. That's like saying Ali Highsmith hasn't had any chances.

I'm guessing if Leinart had played well enough to beat out anybody to become a starter at any point in his Cardinal career he'd have sucked as bad as DA. Unfortunately we'll never know what would've happened had Leinart received more playing time. Most people however will look at the times when he has gotten burn and seen a QB that isn't very good and made judgments from that. It's not like there's no film on Leinart, plenty of it actually.

You're going to hang your hat on the fact that Anderson threw deeper more often than a one-armed QB? All right then, Mao. There's no point in discussing this with you, then. Love your posts most of the time, but obviously you can't attend to reality on this.

 

[Pariah]

The play in the SB? IIRC the play was set up100% correctly. All the WR's were in the correct spot. There was speculation as to would the play work Had Fitz or Boldin I cant remember who lined up a 3 feet further out.

That's actually not true. Warner said in an interview (standing right next to Harrison) at the probowl that Boldin was lined-up too tight. It struck me because it was finger-pointing for sure. No way around it.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

You're going to hang your hat on the fact that Anderson threw deeper more often than a one-armed QB? All right then, Mao. There's no point in discussing this with you, then. Love your posts most of the time, but obviously you can't attend to reality on this.

The reality that both DA and Leinart suck? I actually grasp it all too well.

 

[Duckjake]

Leinart was given the starting job at the beginning of 2007 and botched it before getting hurt.

From the game after the Cowboys debacle of 2006 through the Rams game in 2007 the Cardinals were 7-4 in games with Leinart as the starter. 3-2 in 2007. Leinart may not have been great but I wouldn't say he "botched it".

This is botching it: 3-11 as a starter with 13 TD passes and 21 Interceptions.
Jake Plummer 2000.

Or this:

3-10 as a starter with 13 TDs and 15 INTs, you are out of the lineup at the end of the season and your team finishes dead last in points scored. AND you are such a bum that you get the nickname "Leon".

Jeff Blake in 2003.

 

[kerouac9]

The reality that both DA and Leinart suck? I actually grasp it all too well.

So why Anderson over Leinart. Since Whis took over, Matt has had 392 pass attempts, regular season and preseason.

Mark Sanchez has 449 attempts through regular season and preseason.

Matt Leinart has underperformed expectations, but can you really conclude, based on what we've seen, that Matt Leinart sucks? Really? Based on fewer attempts under this system than Mark Sanchez has had in one season?

Derek Anderson has had 465 regular season pass attempts the last two years to prove that he sucks. We know that he sucks. Like sucks bad. Matt Leinart, IMO, hasn't shown that he sucks. He's shown that he could be mediocre, won't lose games for you, and can be good (based on his play when Denny was here). He's shown me that he's improved in the time that he's been here. Whisenhunt has said as much so far.

In that 2008 preseason when Leinart apparently proved that he has no skill to be a starting quarterback, he had one bad game against Oakland. Through the four games of the preseason he completed 62.2% of his attempts and averaged 7.9 YPA.

I don't understand the argument that we should go with the guy whom we know sucks rather than the guy who's shown that he could be good.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Derek Anderson has had 465 regular season pass attempts the last two years to prove that he sucks. We know that he sucks. Like sucks bad. Matt Leinart, IMO, hasn't shown that he sucks. He's shown that he could be mediocre, won't lose games for you, and can be good (based on his play when Denny was here).

In that 2008 preseason when Leinart apparently proved that he has no skill to be a starting quarterback, he had one bad game against Oakland. Through the four games of the preseason he completed 62.2% of his attempts and averaged 7.9 YPA.

I don't understand the argument that we should go with the guy whom we know sucks rather than the guy who's shown that he could be good.

the idea that Matt has shown more ability to be good than DA is a freaking joke. You're giving Matt a pass here because a) he's shown the ability to be mediocre... what the Titans game? Sorry, but playing Captain Checkdown and leading the team to a whopping 10 points isn't mediocre. b) he's shown he's not a guy who will lose games for you? The guy was put in mop up duty in BLOWOUTS and almost lost games for us (Jax, Bears game where Kurt had to be put back in, Rams game where we were up 21-3 at the half and then Matt came in and we got one first down in the second half against the worst team in football and had to hold on for dear life with two goal line stands int he final 5 minutes)... all of those games he did anything BUT prove he won't lose games for us, coming into blowouts, with no pressure and having every game get tight on him before either we had to bring our starter back in or had to have the defense hold on for dear life. And then he looked positively ATROCIOUS against the Packers the final game of the season. All we've seen from Matt is mediocre AT BEST for one game or pathetic in the last couple years.

And yet you're proof that he "can be good" is two games as a rookie, when no one had game tape on him, FOUR YEARS ago? TWO GAMES? And yet Anderson's 10-5 record for an entire season can be completely thrown out the window?

You accusing someone else of not living in reality earlier in this thread is laughable K9.

Bottom line, both QBs suck, to try and argue anything else is folly.

 

[Buckybird]

man shane i haven't read all your posts but some here have said you have stated your support or a preference for matt but then take every opportunity to slam him

ding ding ding

 

[Shane]

the idea that Matt has shown more ability to be good than DA is a freaking joke. You're giving Matt a pass here because a) he's shown the ability to be mediocre... what the Titans game? Sorry, but playing Captain Checkdown and leading the team to a whopping 10 points isn't mediocre. b) he's shown he's not a guy who will lose games for you? The guy was put in mop up duty in BLOWOUTS and almost lost games for us (Jax, Bears game where Kurt had to be put back in, Rams game where we were up 21-3 at the half and then Matt came in and we got one first down in the second half against the worst team in football and had to hold on for dear life with two goal line stands int he final 5 minutes)... all of those games he did anything BUT prove he won't lose games for us, coming into blowouts, with no pressure and having every game get tight on him before either we had to bring our starter back in or had to have the defense hold on for dear life. And then he looked positively ATROCIOUS against the Packers the final game of the season. All we've seen from Matt is mediocre AT BEST for one game or pathetic in the last couple years.

And yet you're proof that he "can be good" is two games as a rookie, when no one had game tape on him, FOUR YEARS ago? TWO GAMES? And yet Anderson's 10-5 record for an entire season can be completely thrown out the window?

You accusing someone else of not living in reality earlier in this thread is laughable K9.

Bottom line, both QBs suck, to try and argue anything else is folly.

 

[Shane]

ding ding ding

Nice and informative. Again where am I slamming Matt. All I am doing is pushing what Whiz says down your throats because nobody here save a few seems to get it.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I think the consensus of the board, sans a couple outliers, is that both options are pretty mediocre. To say with any certainty that Matt is clearly a better option than DA is ridiculous. It seems the tiebreaker is:

A - Fitz, Whis and others have more confidence in DA as a leader
B - The run game would suffer with Matt's dinking and dunking, as defenses wouldn't even have to scheme against the long ball and could put 8 in the box on every play.

Either way, it's hard to get too enthusiastic about our options. On the bright side, a guy like Fitz can make Anderson look much better than he is, and hopefully the deep threat can allow some running room for Beanie and TH. I'll trust in the judgement of Whis, who has seen far more of both of the qb's than any of us, and is making the final decision.

 

[Shane]

I think the consensus of the board, sans a couple outliers, is that both options are pretty mediocre. To say with any certainty that Matt is clearly a better option than DA is ridiculous. It seems the tiebreaker is:

A - Fitz, Whis and others have more confidence in DA as a leader
B - The run game would suffer with Matt's dinking and dunking, as defenses wouldn't even have to scheme against the long ball and could put 8 in the box on every play.

Either way, it's hard to get too enthusiastic about our options. On the bright side, a guy like Fitz can make Anderson look much better than he is, and hopefully the deep threat can allow some running room for Beanie and TH. I'll trust in the judgement of Whis, who has seen far more of both of the qb's than any of us, and is making the final decision.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Amen.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

So why Anderson over Leinart. Since Whis took over, Matt has had 392 pass attempts, regular season and preseason.

Mark Sanchez has 449 attempts through regular season and preseason.

He has fewer pass attempts for two reasons:

1. Leianrt never put in the work to make himself physically strong enough to stay healthy which allowed Kurt Warner to resurrect his career.

2. Despite being awarded the starting job after Warner's resurrection he was still outplayed by Kurt and replaced.

Leinart's low passing attempts are self-inflicted, should we think Brady Quinn still has something to prove or maybe just realize that he's likely a bust based on the time he has received? Using ML's stats only with Whiz is a cop-out too. Of course nobody mentioned the five years of practice and coaching that Leinart should've been progressing much more rapidly under.

Matt Leinart has underperformed expectations, but can you really conclude, based on what we've seen, that Matt Leinart sucks? Really? Based on fewer attempts under this system than Mark Sanchez has had in one season?

Yes, I can. Weak arm, no confidence, terrible body language, history of poor performances and injuries when he has gotten time. Passing attempts are largely meaningless if you've been in the league for 5+ years. The light should've turned on by now.

Derek Anderson has had 465 regular season pass attempts the last two years to prove that he sucks. We know that he sucks. Like sucks bad. Matt Leinart, IMO, hasn't shown that he sucks. He's shown that he could be mediocre, won't lose games for you, and can be good (based on his play when Denny was here). He's shown me that he's improved in the time that he's been here. Whisenhunt has said as much so far.

And Whisenhunt is the reason I'll buy into DA. He's proven 100x more as an NFL coach than Matt has as an NFL QB. If he says DA over the improved Matt, I'll back up DA over Matt. The dude's got a free pass with me right now after 31-23 and two playoff berths with the freaking Cardinals.

In that 2008 preseason when Leinart apparently proved that he has no skill to be a starting quarterback, he had one bad game against Oakland. Through the four games of the preseason he completed 62.2% of his attempts and averaged 7.9 YPA.

He was given and lost the starting job. By the way, that Oakland game was one of the worst quarterbacked games I have ever seen.

I don't understand the argument that we should go with the guy whom we know sucks rather than the guy who's shown that he could be good.

Anderson has shown just as much that he can be good with his 2007 season if you want to make that argument. Each's 2008 and 2009
campaigns were equally terrible.

 

[Spielman]

Bottom line, both QBs suck, to try and argue anything else is folly.

This. The big mistake isn't benching Leinart now, it's failing to secure a better option than Derek Anderson in the offseason, since it's obvious they weren't comfortable with Leinart.