Warriors @ Suns 2-10-16

[Hoop Head]

BS

The Markieff and Beasley situations are not comparable at all.

And please.. "fights with teammates" what nonsense is that in which world does shoving equal fighting? Publicly fights with coach? LMAO

Even the bad mouthing fan parts is cherry picking by you taking what he said completely out of context. Regardless he was telling the truth.

Suns buying out Morris would be equivalent to the Kings trading Cousins for expirings and a late first.

Why was Beasley cut? What did he do that is worse than Markieff has done?

How many times have you seen 2 players get into a scuffle on the bench during an NBA game? It's something that shouldn't happen. Did Markieff throw his towel at Hornacek earlier this year? He was suspended for doing that.

How many games have you been to in the Morris years? Enlighten me. The comments he made last year about the fans were disgraceful. It's not taken out of context either, he said the fans in TSRA are the worst in the league. Of course he back pedaled saying the first 2 rows of fans are cool though. I'm not talking about the incident linked in this thread because in that situation some fan was lobbing insults at him first. He should have been a professional and kept walking though. Instead he decided to show how immature he is by flipping the fan off.

Equating buying out Morris to trading Cousins for scraps are completely different. Cousins is an All-Star and All-NBA talent while Markieff has never even been the starter on a team that wins. Cousins' teams haven't won much either but he has shown immense talent while playing for a dysfunctional franchise. I'd be willing to wager any team other than probably San Antonio and Golden State would jump at the chance to add Cousins. Who wants Markieff though? He won't even put in effort unless he's coddled. Clearly you love Markieff because you don't watch the games and obsess over advanced stats. The guy is a cancer that can't be moved quick enough.

 

[slinslin]

Beasley was not able to play up to his talent, he was not a good player, the Suns took a flyer on him, he was not a professional in practice, he was not a good teammate.. none of that applies to Markieff.

Nobody gives a **** about the towel incident, Hornacek did not even notice this. It is not clear that there was any intention in that. Woj reports that teams do not care about that incident.

Players gets into scuffles often, Lebron and Chalmers come to mind. Michael Jordan punched Steve Kerr during practice.

Cousins also has never been a starter on a team that wins. And the Kings are no more dysfunctional than the Suns either.

I see complaining about Watson being soft and not old-school enough. But with Markieff you have a player who is blunt and straight out says what he thinks and gets into a confrontation then it is all drama.

Flipping off the fan who goes out of his way to get as close as possible to Markieff to insult him and film it is about as harmless as it gets in my book. He went to the locker room and did not respond any further to that heckler.

 

[chickenhead]

I don't think MJ or Lebron should be used as examples to defend Markieff. The whole point is that he is not good enough to overlook his behavior.

 

[Hoop Head]

I don't think MJ or Lebron should be used as examples to defend Markieff. The whole point is that he is not good enough to overlook his behavior.

Thank you, that is the most concise way to say it. Markieff will never be more than a role player in the NBA. He will never be a top 3 player on a contender. Sure he's talented but in order to get him to play to his potential there are way too many variables involved.

Even if the Suns bought him out there is no way he gets a contract higher than what he's being paid now for 3-4 years. I doubt there is another team in this league that would pay him more than 8 million a year for more than 1 season. He's not worth any sort of long term commitment for a significant amount. If anyone offered him a multi year deal it would include team options in order for them to cut him loose if he ended up being the same sort of cancer he's been in the Suns locker room.

At best he's a solid starting PF but he's been nothing but a malcontent this season. The only thing that is certain about him is that if he's given enough rope he will hang himself. Nothing he has shown in the last 2 seasons as a starter point towards anything different.

 

[Hoop Head]

Add Fire McD, subtract Chandler, and keep Bledsoe and that's a good start for a rebuild.

"Get rid of Lon Ryan and Earl" from the original quote you were replying to includes McD. His name is Ryan McDonough. I think McD's original plan for rebuilding was thwarted by success in his first season here. It baffles me how people want certain players or personnel moved because they see them as an issue yet they don't even know that persons full name. A GM's success, or lack thereof, shouldn't be measured by the performance of a team under just 1 coach. Sure he hired Hornacek but he's also in charge of assembling a roster through the draft, free agency, and trades that can be competitive.

He hasn't underperformed as far as what is realistically possible for the Suns to achieve in free agency. He should be given 1 more season, at least, to try and right the ship. He's drafted really well and has received the better end of almost every trade he's made with the exception of the Knight deal and even that isn't definitive because who knows where the Lakers pick ends up. The team sucks right now but how much of that falls on coaching compared to assembly of talent is debatable. There are significant injuries to the team right now with Bledsoe & Warren being out for the year. Chandler, Len, Knight, Price, and Leuer have all missed significant time this season because of injuries also. Players have underperformed and been misused but I think coaching is the issue there more than lack of overall talent.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Why was Beasley cut? What did he do that is worse than Markieff has done?



How many times have you seen 2 players get into a scuffle on the bench during an NBA game? It's something that shouldn't happen. Did Markieff throw his towel at Hornacek earlier this year? He was suspended for doing that.



How many games have you been to in the Morris years? Enlighten me. The comments he made last year about the fans were disgraceful. It's not taken out of context either, he said the fans in TSRA are the worst in the league. Of course he back pedaled saying the first 2 rows of fans are cool though. I'm not talking about the incident linked in this thread because in that situation some fan was lobbing insults at him first. He should have been a professional and kept walking though. Instead he decided to show how immature he is by flipping the fan off.

.

Beasley was a horrible player. I am no Markieff fan, I am a Suns fan and what you are advocating is bad for the Suns.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Markieff is averaging 21/8/5 45% over the last 5.

I think people need to calm down on this, Archie came out and played like he did not care until this altercation. I don't mind Kieff getting in his face for that. Sure emotions spilled over but there have been many great leaders in the NBA that have done worse.

if Keiff was a great leader, you might have a point. Unfortunately, he's a complete baby who has been completely unprofessional on and off the court for two years. this altercation didn't happen in a vacuum. It's just another in a long line of Kieff idiotic moves.

 

[WuRaider]

Booker became the 2nd youngest player (behind Lebron) to get a points-assist double double (his line was 15-10-7)

So hyped for this kid!

 

[TJ]

"Get rid of Lon Ryan and Earl" from the original quote you were replying to includes McD. His name is Ryan McDonough. I think McD's original plan for rebuilding was thwarted by success in his first season here. It baffles me how people want certain players or personnel moved because they see them as an issue yet they don't even know that persons full name. A GM's success, or lack thereof, shouldn't be measured by the performance of a team under just 1 coach. Sure he hired Hornacek but he's also in charge of assembling a roster through the draft, free agency, and trades that can be competitive.

He hasn't underperformed as far as what is realistically possible for the Suns to achieve in free agency. He should be given 1 more season, at least, to try and right the ship. He's drafted really well and has received the better end of almost every trade he's made with the exception of the Knight deal and even that isn't definitive because who knows where the Lakers pick ends up. The team sucks right now but how much of that falls on coaching compared to assembly of talent is debatable. There are significant injuries to the team right now with Bledsoe & Warren being out for the year. Chandler, Len, Knight, Price, and Leuer have all missed significant time this season because of injuries also. Players have underperformed and been misused but I think coaching is the issue there more than lack of overall talent.

Missed the Ryan part of his post. I usually just call him McD. Thanks for the "refresher" tho (even though I already knew exactly who he was).

I disagree about performance. He burned the bridge with Goran. In the whirlwind of deals that included Goran, he made the team worse by ridding of Isaiah Thomas and the coveted Lakers pick. He overpaid for Tyson Chandler. He drafted a mediocre, injury-prone Alex Len. His best success was getting Bledsoe. Otherwise, he's been an abject failure at his position. Another year wont fix that.

Simply put-McD is under-qualified to be a GM and is in over his head. Injuries and coaching is not an excuse. He cant draft, he cant negotiate fair market deals, and has been taken to the woodshed on trades.

 

[TJ]

That picture is totally misleading and makes it look like he choked him which never actually happened.

Watch the video.

My bad, he was just massaging Goodwin's throat.....that's what true leaders do

 

[sunsfan88]

My bad, he was just massaging Goodwin's throat.....that's what true leaders do

Yea but he's averaging 27/8/5 in his last 4 or 5 games though!

 

[Milgod]

This seems to be way overdramatized it certainly was not a brawl or fight.

Yahoo describes it better as a "tussle". Looked to me like Markieff was talking to/trying to teach Archie something and Archie was no having any of it, Markieff grabbed him and Archie pushed him away.

Are you actually serious? Or maybe just on a bit of a wind-up?

 

[Phrazbit]

Yeah, he was teaching Archie, "This is how you commit an act of violence!"

 

[Chaplin]

Who cares? Neither one was benched for the rest of the game and we lost like we all want.

This is a non-issue.

 

[82CardsGrad]

They are reportedly extremely close friends (which might suggest we should be concerned about Archie's decision-making skills...) off the court. This was not a "fight" between two guys who hate each other. As they both stated, it was more a Big Brother getting too aggressive with Little Brother.

Regardless, no matter how it's spun, it's yet another reflection and stain on the character of Keef. The guys is simply a thug, pure & simple... and a tremendously stupid one at that. In fact, if they ever had NBA players taking the Wonderlic test, I'm certain he would score below Vince Young!

 

[BC867]

Here is the headline of Markieff's recap of the altercation.

There's been a lot of ups and downs. I guess that makes me who I am.

That is pretty much like . . . what you see is what you get. Not even a hint that he is willing to mature.

Each one of us as fans, as well as the Front Office, has the right to form an opinion about him.

Mine is that stubbornness is not a virtue and not being willing to grow is a detriment. If he is our team leader going forward, we're going nowhere.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I am not sure what the big deal is about. I have no problem with what he did. He was in Archies face for stupid play. So was everyone else. Archie snapped and pushed and Kieff instinctively pushed back. It was nothing. This type of thing happens on every team at every stage. You all that played know it, you've likely done it. I find it interesting that Kieff was engaged enough to care.

As far as flipping a fan off, yeah, that is not good. But it is also open season on Kieff, he is getting ripped everywhere. Yeah, he brought this on himself with such poor play during the first half. Is there video or a picture? Did it really happen?

I just don't see the big deal about it. I am happy that he is playing better. I am fine with a good trade for him. I am OK if he is here until summer.

This overblown emotional reaction by fans and radio jerks is mind boggling.

Meanwhile, Blake Griffin busts his hand putting a staffer in the hospital, and half the leage is clamoring for him.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I am not sure what the big deal is about. I have no problem with what he did. He was in Archies face for stupid play. So was everyone else. Archie snapped and pushed and Kieff instinctively pushed back. It was nothing. This type of thing happens on every team at every stage. You all that played know it, you've likely done it. I find it interesting that Kieff was engaged enough to care.

As far as flipping a fan off, yeah, that is not good. But it is also open season on Kieff, he is getting ripped everywhere. Yeah, he brought this on himself with such poor play during the first half. Is there video or a picture? Did it really happen?

I just don't see the big deal about it. I am happy that he is playing better. I am fine with a good trade for him. I am OK if he is here until summer.

This overblown emotional reaction by fans and radio jerks is mind boggling.

overblown? you act like ***** has been a choir-boy his entire career and this is the first time he's really done anything wrong. He's a snowball of negativity and this is just one more chunk of ice rolling into his avalanche of embarrassing behavior.

Meanwhile, Blake Griffin busts his hand putting a staffer in the hospital, and half the leage is clamoring for him.

yeah, because it's the first time he's ever done something REALLY stupid and he's one of the best players in the game. Why this is confusing to you that people are clamoring for him is confusing to me to say the least.

 

[Catlover]

overblown? you act like ***** has been a choir-boy his entire career and this is the first time he's really done anything wrong. He's a snowball of negativity and this is just one more chunk of ice rolling into his avalanche of embarrassing behavior.

He really wasn't. He was talking about one specific incident and the reaction to that specific incident. Everything he has done has been blown way out of proportion and this is just another example. I have no problem with someone adding up all the incidents and passing judgement for the culmination of his obvious mis-steps but I don't understand why each action needs to be overstated. He's immature, he's too close to the edge, he's self-serving and he's nothing special as a player. Those add up in a bad way, that's more than enough reason to want him gone IMO.

 

[JCSunsfan]

He really wasn't. He was talking about one specific incident and the reaction to that specific incident. Everything he has done has been blown way out of proportion and this is just another example. I have no problem with someone adding up all the incidents and passing judgement for the culmination of his obvious mis-steps but I don't understand why each action needs to be overstated. He's immature, he's too close to the edge, he's self-serving and he's nothing special as a player. Those add up in a bad way, that's more than enough reason to want him gone IMO.

Thank you. This is my perspective.

If Tyson Chandler had done the exact same thing, everyone would be giving him "attaboys" for being a leader. At this point, if Kieff picks his nose he as flipped someone off, if he sneezes he said, "f-u"

He is not a great guy, I get that, but this is clearly over reacting.

 

[BC867]

He is not a great guy, I get that, but this is clearly over reacting.

Markieff Morris finds controversy and controversy finds Markieff on a regular basis.

And he announces after the latest episode that this is who he is.

And he has a court case pending.

And he has blamed Suns fans for the team's lackadaisical play.

And his twin brother takes pot shots at the Suns from afar, further complicating the issue.

And you blame it on the fans for "overreacting"? Amazing!

 

[Cheesebeef]

He really wasn't. He was talking about one specific incident and the reaction to that specific incident.

that's the point... you can't look at one specific incident as if it happened in a vacuum.

Everything he has done has been blown way out of proportion and this is just another example.

assaulting a guy half his size with his brother, throwing a towel in the face of his coach, calling put his own fans and not showing up to play the entire first half of the season is all COMPLETE GARBAGE... on and off the court. None of that needs to be "blown way out of proportion" because it's all pathetic behavior.

I have no problem with someone adding up all the incidents and passing judgement for the culmination of his obvious mis-steps but I don't understand why each action needs to be overstated.

I really don't see anything be overstated. when you're already an avalanche of garbage, every snowball throw into the rush just makes the issue bigger.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Thank you. This is my perspective.

If Tyson Chandler had done the exact same thing, everyone would be giving him "attaboys" for being a leader.

you'd have a good point except for two things a) Tyson Chandler actually has leadership credentials and has been a leader and b) oddly enough he's NEVER almost started a brawl on the bench. Probably because... well, that's NOT what leaders do.

That's what IDIOTS do.

He is not a great guy, I get that, but this is clearly over reacting.

he and his brother freaking beat the crap out of a guy half their size. He's not just "not a great guy." He's a piece of garbage off the court AND on it.

 

[sunsfan88]

you'd have a good point except for two things a) Tyson Chandler actually has leadership credentials and has been a leader and b) oddly enough he's NEVER almost started a brawl on the bench. Probably because... well, that's NOT what leaders do.

That's what IDIOTS do.



he and his brother freaking beat the crap out of a guy half their size. He's not just "not a great guy." He's a piece of garbage off the court AND on it.

To add to this, guess which player is the one that gets between Kieff and Goodwin and pulls Kieff away?

Tyson Chandler.

 

[Mainstreet]

Markieff's last incident didn't bother me as much as some. The reason, I think he was trying to be responsible and take on a leadership role. Although it gives more ammunition for those who want to dislike him, I think he was trying to take a step forward. I'm not saying not to trade him if the right opportunity comes along (both the Suns and Markieff might benefit from a change) but if the Suns can't get value for him I would keep him for now.