Warriors @ Suns 3-17-18

[Mainstreet]

Len will never have a game like that his whole career.

This is from March of 2016. I didn't even go through his stats to see if he had a better game.

Only Miami’s Hassan Whiteside has a longer active streak of double-digit rebounding games than Len, who has grabbed at least 10 rebounds in each of the eight games since he joined Chandler in the starting lineup. During that time since. Feb. 27, Len’s average of 13.5 rebounds per game trails only Detroit’s Andre Drummond (15.5), Utah’s Rudy Gobert (13.8), Whiteside (13.7) and the Los Angeles Clipper’s DeAndre Jordan (13.7).

Len had been in a shooting slump until his 26-point, 13-rebound game Saturday night at Golden State, where he made 10 of 18 shots. But even with the shooting slump, his scoring average of 18.3 points per game has been the fifth best among centers since Feb. 27. He has done it over that eight-game stretch by getting to the line for 8.7 free throw attempts per game, which ranks as the sixth most of any NBA player in that time.

Couldn't resist.

Perhaps Len will play better with a change of scenery.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...mong-top-nba-centers-since-starting/81776000/

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

On FSAZ it sounded like a Warriors home game. I bet they don't remember Chris Mullin either.

I can confirm that it looked and sounded like a Warriors home game in person.

 

[Mainstreet]

I can confirm that it looked and sounded like a Warriors home game in person.

I thought so. The Warriors crowd was really loud on television.

When the crowd roared with approval, I would look up only to see a Warriors player had made a great play instead of a Suns player.

Glad you got a chance to go to the game and especially see Josh Jackson. He looks special.

 

[Mainstreet]

Warren reportedly left the game with a sprained left knee.

Phoenix Suns Stats‏@SunsBballComm


INJURY UPDATE: T.J. Warren left the game in the fourth quarter with a sprained left knee. His status is day-to-day.

9:32 PM - 17 Mar 2018

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Warren reportedly left the game with a sprained left knee.

He is incredibly fragile.

 

[SweetD]

I could see Warren moving to the 4 next season or being included in a package deal for a Star big.

 

[leclerc]

Heard a huge applause, thought Booker was coming out. It was the Warriors. It's like we're in Oakland.

Dislike. Clowns.

 

[Mainstreet]

He is incredibly fragile.

He certainly takes a pounding inside so it takes it's toll. It seems like he is always on the floor.

 

[Mainstreet]

I could see Warren moving to the 4 next season or being included in a package deal for a Star big.

I thought Warren could play the 4 position for the longest time but I thought he would develop more physically which he hasn't. So I'm starting to question that.

He will make an excellent role player off the bench. If the Suns do trade him they need to get some significant in return because he is a good player on a reasonable contract.

 

[sunsfan88]

yeah... I think Warren is a classic meaningless stat guy. An "Armon Gilliam type" Barkley used to refer to back in his heyday. A guy who puts up really nice stats... on terrible teams... because SOMEONE has to score. Or... for better reference... an Eric Bledsoe. No one has to gameplan for them. They can get their points, because that's literally almost everything they're going to contribute to the game.

He doesn't spread the floor... he doesn't play D... he's not a great rebounder. And he's starting in front of the future. I'd love to see him as a sixth man, but would be surprised if he was as efficient... and a sixth or seventh man at 10 million bucks? I don't know. Maybe that's going rate for that in today's cap.

Warren is making more than $10M.

And Josh Richardson who is a good defender and shoots 3s makes less than Warren does.

 

[Hoop Head]

Warren is making more than $10M.

And Josh Richardson who is a good defender and shoots 3s makes less than Warren does.

Warren signed for 4 years/$50 million while Richardson signed for 4 years/$42 million. That's not a huge difference when it comes to NBA contracts. Warren also averages 7 more points a game in roughly the same amount of minutes. Sure Richardson shoots better from 3 but Warren shoots better overall by about 5%, 49.8% compared to 45.4%. I don't know what sort of defender Richardson is but I think the difference in scoring makes up for the $2 million annual difference.

 

[SirStefan32]

Warren is also probably top 25, or top 30 in scoring in the NBA. He really only does one thing well, but he does that one thing REALLY well. I think people are giving him crap mostly because of the team not being very good in general, and particularly bad from the three point line. If Suns had two more players who could shoot like Booker, Daniels, and Bender, nobody would complain about TJ's three-point shooting.

 

[SirStefan32]

Warren signed for 4 years/$50 million while Richardson signed for 4 years/$42 million. That's not a huge difference when it comes to NBA contracts. Warren also averages 7 more points a game in roughly the same amount of minutes. Sure Richardson shoots better from 3 but Warren shoots better overall by about 5%, 49.8% compared to 45.4%. I don't know what sort of defender Richardson is but I think the difference in scoring makes up for the $2 million annual difference.

He is a very good defender. I am a big fan of his. Richardson may be a better fit with the Suns, but TJ is a better overall player. There is no doubt about that.

 

[sunsfan88]

Warren signed for 4 years/$50 million while Richardson signed for 4 years/$42 million. That's not a huge difference when it comes to NBA contracts. Warren also averages 7 more points a game in roughly the same amount of minutes. Sure Richardson shoots better from 3 but Warren shoots better overall by about 5%, 49.8% compared to 45.4%. I don't know what sort of defender Richardson is but I think the difference in scoring makes up for the $2 million annual difference.

Richardson has been in the league 3 years and has a higher TS% in two of those three years than Warren does in those years. Richardson has also played more games than Warren in those seasons as well meaning he's more durable as well.

Richardson is very good defensively while Warren is sieve at the end.

Warren is literally only good at one thing...inside scoring. That might be most worthless attribute for a wing in the NBA today which relies on perimeter shooting.

If Warren was 7ft tall, he would be amazing to have but as a SF his skills are outdated.

 

[leclerc]

When he scores 25 points in a game we're winning so that's probably happening 26.8 % of the time.

According to http://www.tankathon.com/ we're number one, baby!

Good things about Warren is fast breaks (rush hour), cutting, and scoring without controlling the ball. When he's healthy and people look for him he's pretty good. On the offensive end.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It’s interesting I think people on our board either waaaay overrate warren (pointing out being top 25 in scoring or some such thing) or way underrate him (dismissing his scoring punch altogether due to his lack of other appreciative skills). He lies squarely in between imo.

I think this is what we have:

A good midrange scorer

Can score unconventionally

Good cutter - good movement on the floor

Not a high usage player - not a ball stopper

Doesn’t space the floor well - lacking range

Not a prolific rebounder despite being a somewhat larger sf

Not a creator for others

Mediocre-to-below average defender

Reasonable contract

At the of the day I think his true value is as a sixth man off the bench in a swing forward role. And I don’t think this is a surprise to anyone. But he needs at least one other talented offensive player coming off the bench with him to help him be effective.

 

[Hoop Head]

I find it interesting how some people want Warren to be placed into a 6th man role if he's not traded this offseason, because of his 3pt shooting. Jackson isn't shooting much better than Warren right now. Warren is shooting 22% on 1.4 attempts throughout while Jackson is shooting 28% on 2.9 attempts a game since February 1st. I'm only using Jackson's stats for that period of time because he was awful up until late January or so. Jackson wouldn't improve the shooting now and until he's a better 3pt shooter or a better defender I don't see the need to move Warren to the bench and let Jackson start. I'm sure it will happen eventually but right now Jackson is playing great in a 6th man role so let him continue doing so. That hasn't stopped him from going off like the other night when he scored 36. That performance was the best of the season for him and he didn't start in that game. He's getting 30+ minutes a night as a reserve right now so there is no reason to rush him into a starting role that demotes Warren.

I may be viewed as one of the people that overrates Warren but I think I view him as he should be. He's a good starting SF that scores easily without requiring the ball in his hands, which helps the offense flow smoothly. He could be a 6th man contender if he's moved into that role but there is no need to push him there right now. His ability to score without creating his own shots has to be amongst the best in the league. He can move without the ball and cut well where someone can pass to him for an easy FG. He's a good rebounder for a SF and he's not atrocious defensively. It hasn't helped that he's had guys like Jackson and PJ Tucker sharing time with him at SF because both are good defenders which makes Warren appear worse than he is. For a player that can get you 20 and 5 every night on 50% shooting isn't someone that should be cast aside, especially since he's signed for the next 4 seasons on a very reasonable contract. I'd rank him probably around the 10th best SF in the league. He's definitely behind Lebron, KD, Kawhi, and Giannis. The next tier is the All-Stars like Paul George, Jimmy Butler, and Gordon Hayward but he belongs in the next tier with Harrison Barnes, Otto Porter, and Robert Covington.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I find it interesting how some people want Warren to be placed into a 6th man role if he's not traded this offseason, because of his 3pt shooting. Jackson isn't shooting much better than Warren right now. Warren is shooting 22% on 1.4 attempts throughout while Jackson is shooting 28% on 2.9 attempts a game since February 1st. I'm only using Jackson's stats for that period of time because he was awful up until late January or so. Jackson wouldn't improve the shooting now and until he's a better 3pt shooter or a better defender I don't see the need to move Warren to the bench and let Jackson start. I'm sure it will happen eventually but right now Jackson is playing great in a 6th man role so let him continue doing so. That hasn't stopped him from going off like the other night when he scored 36. That performance was the best of the season for him and he didn't start in that game. He's getting 30+ minutes a night as a reserve right now so there is no reason to rush him into a starting role that demotes Warren.

I may be viewed as one of the people that overrates Warren but I think I view him as he should be. He's a good starting SF that scores easily without requiring the ball in his hands, which helps the offense flow smoothly. He could be a 6th man contender if he's moved into that role but there is no need to push him there right now. His ability to score without creating his own shots has to be amongst the best in the league. He can move without the ball and cut well where someone can pass to him for an easy FG. He's a good rebounder for a SF and he's not atrocious defensively. It hasn't helped that he's had guys like Jackson and PJ Tucker sharing time with him at SF because both are good defenders which makes Warren appear worse than he is. For a player that can get you 20 and 5 every night on 50% shooting isn't someone that should be cast aside, especially since he's signed for the next 4 seasons on a very reasonable contract. I'd rank him probably around the 10th best SF in the league. He's definitely behind Lebron, KD, Kawhi, and Giannis. The next tier is the All-Stars like Paul George, Jimmy Butler, and Gordon Hayward but he belongs in the next tier with Harrison Barnes, Otto Porter, and Robert Covington.

Because Jackson brings more than just scoring to the table. Also his shot actually has a chance at improving at this point.

 

[pokerface]

Because Jackson brings more than just scoring to the table. Also his shot actually has a chance at improving at this point.

I agree. I think Warren almost hit his peak and Jackson is just scratching the surface of his potential.

 

[Chaplin]

Warren is simply a bigger Jamal Crawford. A good piece off the bench but not enough all around game to be in a starting role. JJ has already proven to be more than that IMO.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

My concern with Warren is that, ideally, the 1, 2, and 3 should all be floor spacers, with ideally a 4 or 5 who also spaces the floor. If your 3 can't hit threes (I mean, it's in the name!) then you need extra shooting from your bigs.

When your 3 AND your 1 can't space the floor, that's a disaster. And when both are net-negatives on defense as well? It's no wonder the Suns have the worst record in the league.

Warren would work as a starter IF we got a point guard who can shoot 3s and play adequate defense (not sure who that would be) AND Bender develops or we get another big who is a good floor spacer. Even then, we already have Jackson as our three of the future.

It's a problem, and this is coming from someone who thinks Warren is a really good player in the right situation!

 

[SirStefan32]

I really don't understand how TJ hasn't improved as a shooter in four years. If he could get to 35% from behind the line, he would be unstoppable. If I were him, I'd be shooting a thousand threes every day during the offseason. The thing is, his shot is fine. He doesn't have a broken jumper- form is fine, release is fine. He just needs to add 2-3 feet to his range.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Warren is simply a bigger Jamal Crawford. A good piece off the bench but not enough all around game to be in a starting role. JJ has already proven to be more than that IMO.

Hmmm. Interesting discussion about the two. I think Warren is under appreciated here some. And maybe we are jumping the gun just a touch with Jackson. But I would still hope and expect that Jackson will be the better player eventually. Maybe soon.

I guess I am kinda agreeing.

 

[leclerc]

I agree that a three point shot would increase his value by a lot! That goes for Jackson and Payton as well. I wonder how the trainers/coaches approach this. Do the players get assignments?

 

[Chaplin]

I agree that a three point shot would increase his value by a lot! That goes for Jackson and Payton as well. I wonder how the trainers/coaches approach this. Do the players get assignments?

The sooner we come to terms that this team hasn’t been coached in two years, the better. It would explain a lot when it comes to Chriss and Bender.

No coaching and (especially this year) piss-poor veteran leadership have been the WORST for this young team.