Warriors @ Suns Saturday game thread 2-29-20

[AzStevenCal]

I think one of the telling things about our situation versus Gokden States situation is next year their starting four eclipses ours, with better bench guys lile Pschall and Looney already in place. Right now our starting four don't match up with Golden State next year. We are already behind starting next year, too!

I don't mean to sound snarky but were you going to tell us that water is wet too? I just assumed everyone already knew this even before Paschall came into view. This year is an aberration for the Warriors but their core of Curry, Thompson and Green is clearly much better than our trio.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think one of the telling things about our situation versus Gokden States situation is next year their starting four eclipses ours, with better bench guys lile Pschall and Looney already in place. Right now our starting four don't match up with Golden State next year. We are already behind starting next year, too!

This is true but I think the Warriors (if healthy) can contend for a championship next season. Plus they will add an early draft pick. The Warriors are so good at assessing talent.

I'd settle for a playoff spot next season but that seems so far away. The Suns need multiple players added to the team next season particularly addressing backup point guard and power forward.

 

[Mainstreet]

There was a lot of speculation/rumor that Oubre's camp was looking for a max or near max deal even when he was in Washington and that was a big part of why they were trading him. My critical comments about Oubre lately have been based on the idea that we gave him a 2 year "show us" deal to let him earn that max deal. And many of us have viewed him as our 3rd core piece and as such, a max deal is right in line. Forgetting the injury, if Oubre is actually comfortable with a 15 to 20 million per salary going forward, then I would say he's a solid piece considering the cost.

There was speculation that Oubre wanted a max contract but that was very unrealistic if true. The Suns appeared to be the only team seriously interested in him so why would they want to bid against themselves.

My thought process was that he could be a third piece for the Suns (along with Ayton and Booker) so if the Suns could wrap him up for several seasons, the last being a restricted free agent, they should do it. That way if he blows up they have the right to match. It's hard to know what Oubre would have taken but I hope James Jones didn't turn down a deal for something like 3 years at $50 million.

Now with the injury, who knows how it will work out.

 

[Hoop Head]

I don't know about max money but there was definitely talk of Oubre getting paid somewhere around $20-25 million a year and a number of posters were in favor of paying him that to lock him in. I think $20 million a year is where I'd draw the line but if the Suns continue crapping the bed like they did against the Warriors then he and his agent will have a case made for them that he's worth max money, or close to it.

 

[cwamjn]

This is true but I think the Warriors (if healthy) can contend for a championship next season. Plus they will add an early draft pick. The Warriors are so good at assessing talent.

I'd settle for a playoff spot next season but that seems so far away. The Suns need multiple players added to the team next season particularly addressing backup point guard and power forward.

Yup, last night in my infinite misery, I was trying to figure out what we need to be a playoff team. The quickest I could figure was we get high in the lottery and Obi Toppin is the guy I think he is. He could be a great second option. Allowing Ayton to be a third option and moving Oubre to a great energy sixth man. I don't really know what to do with free agency, I can't imagine we are a destination without gravely over paying players.

Oh my gosh I'm becoming the obsessed with Obi Toppin guy. This season is essentially over, I think I'll go follow the Clippers for the playoffs. I spend so much time in Irvine it's easy for me to follow them.

 

[GoldGloveschmidt]

Yup, last night in my infinite misery, I was trying to figure out what we need to be a playoff team. The quickest I could figure was we get high in the lottery and Obi Toppin is the guy I think he is. He could be a great second option. Allowing Ayton to be a third option and moving Oubre to a great energy sixth man. I don't really know what to do with free agency, I can't imagine we are a destination without gravely over paying players.

Oh my gosh I'm becoming the obsessed with Obi Toppin guy. This season is essentially over, I think I'll go follow the Clippers for the playoffs. I spend so much time in Irvine it's easy for me to follow them.

Ayton should be the first option not the third

 

[Mainstreet]

Yup, last night in my infinite misery, I was trying to figure out what we need to be a playoff team. The quickest I could figure was we get high in the lottery and Obi Toppin is the guy I think he is. He could be a great second option. Allowing Ayton to be a third option and moving Oubre to a great energy sixth man. I don't really know what to do with free agency, I can't imagine we are a destination without gravely over paying players.

What a dedicated fan to be at the game doing mathematical calculations!

I think adding a power forward like Toppin would be a step in the right direction. I'd even consider a point guard if the right one were available. Power forward and point guard are the Suns greatest needs.

Ideally it would be nice to draft a player that can start right away although I'm not sure it is necessary. What is necessary, the Suns need to seriously up grade their bench with athletic players that can compete and add a starting power forward. Some of these needs can be filled in free agency. I don't think adding a star player is necessary at this point.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't know about max money but there was definitely talk of Oubre getting paid somewhere around $20-25 million a year and a number of posters were in favor of paying him that to lock him in. I think $20 million a year is where I'd draw the line but if the Suns continue crapping the bed like they did against the Warriors then he and his agent will have a case to make for that he's worth max money, or close to it.

Most every fan had an opinion on what was Oubre's value. I didn't have time to read all the posts on the Kelly Oubre thread but I did find where I put out a number.

I think $15 million a season is fair with a $5-10 million bump on a multi-year contract.

For some reason 5/82 or 5/85 keeps going through my head although I'm not sure if Oubre wants to commit this far into the future.

Maybe 4/75 is another thought.

https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/kelly-oubre.299915/page-26


That's less than $20 million a season in every scenario I proposed.

 

[GatorAZ]

As I’ve said before Booker is Joe Johnson with more charisma. Great player but He’s not leading us anywhere special. In fact I think the Suns in a couple years could be like those Hawks teams with Joe, Horford, Josh Smith, Marvin Williams and Mike Bibby... Good teams but not really a threat (and I would take that in a heartbeat!).

 

[Mainstreet]

As I’ve said before Booker is Joe Johnson with more charisma. Great player but He’s not leading us anywhere special. In fact I think the Suns in a couple years could be like those Hawks teams with Joe, Horford, Josh Smith, Marvin Williams and Mike Bibby... Good teams but not really a threat (and I would take that in a heartbeat!).

What could have been if the Suns had kept this group together: Amare Stoudemire, Shawn Marion, Joe Johnson and Steve Nash.

 

[GatorAZ]

What could have been if the Suns had kept this group together: Amare Stoudemire, Shawn Marion, Joe Johnson and Steve Nash.

At the time we didn’t want to give Joe his max it would’ve been understandable if they weren’t so close. They were less than a mil-a-year apart. Had they only gone to $40 mil it would’ve been easier to swallow. That’s poor negotiating.

 

[Mainstreet]

At the time we didn’t want to give Joe his max it would’ve been understandable if they weren’t so close. They were less than a mil-a-year apart. Had they only gone to $40 mil it would’ve been easier to swallow. That’s poor negotiating.

Some day we will have to do a thread on every bad move the Suns have made under Robert Sarver but it seems so bleak to do it now. Besides fans already have it memorized.

 

[GatorAZ]

Some day we will have to do a thread on every bad move the Suns have made under Robert Sarver but it seems so bleak to do it now. Besides fans already have it memorized.

Or didn’t make. One of the ones nobody thinks about is not trading the Hawks pick at the 07’ deadline. It was the best trade asset of any contender at the time. Of course it jumped in the lottery and didn’t parlay into anything.

 

[Carolinacacti]

And to think this board would have been up beat and happy if the FFFFF Suns could only beat G.S. and the Pistons.

 

[Mainstreet]

And to think this board would have been up beat and happy if the FFFFF Suns could only beat G.S. and the Pistons.

I'd ask, what brought us to such a lowly state but we all know the answer.

 

[Superbone]

After a night to reflect on it I would say that was the most disheartening performance I've ever seen from the Phoenix Suns.

I can't argue with that. I am depressed today as a life-long Phoenix Suns fan.

 

[Cheesebeef]

As I’ve said before Booker is Joe Johnson with more charisma. Great player but He’s not leading us anywhere special. In fact I think the Suns in a couple years could be like those Hawks teams with Joe, Horford, Josh Smith, Marvin Williams and Mike Bibby... Good teams but not really a threat (and I would take that in a heartbeat!).

yup... Booker and Ayton as foundational players is basically building castles made of sand. It's why coming out of last year's worst season in Suns history with only Cam Johnson to show for it was so devastating. Neither of our two "stars" are a) leaders and b) the total package of talent, physical ability and beast attitude. Missing out on Ja and Zion... two bona-fide number 1 players that could have knocked Book and Ayton down to very very good #2/#3s was what we needed. But the lotto gods screwed us and the rest, I fear, will be history.

we're stuck in a terrible position... much like I think the T-Wolves have been stuck in. There's no doubt Booker and Ayton are our best players, but they just aren't superstars and have done nothing to elevate this team out of being awful. Is there a talent void in the rest of the squad? Yeah... but if any team has what they believe are two superstars or at least a superstar and a budding one (which is what most people here believed, especially when Booker got "snubbed"), then those two guys should be able to elevate much more than what's going on. And they don't. They just simply don't.

 

[95pro]

Bad loss but whats new.

Baynes is so unfundamentally sound, I wouldn't be mad if we moved on from him. I'm up for Keeping Saric, he provides something useful, hopefully he doesn't cost too much. We can't put Saric and Baynes on the court at the same time, they're so both slow and unathletic, at least Saric plays smarter and doesn't do dumb sheet most times.

Booker is becoming so predictable, dribble to the free throw and thinks he'll draw the double teams, while teams are sitting back guarding everyone, all while doing 5 pump fakes trying to draw the foul. He could simply every now and then just dribble to the free-throw line and shoot the shot while he's open??? Maybe mix it up???

Mikal's trajectory is only going up, hope he continues to develop. The same can't be said for Okobo, the guys is trash, please release him or something to free up a roster spot so we can try to find someone else to develop.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I haven't been able to post since the game. Just bothered by this loss. This team has more talent than most teams it plays, but they are weak mentally/emotionally. As much as I love Booker, he lacks a competitive edge often. The Oubre loss seems to have sucked the fire right out.

This team needs another star player/leader type of player. They need a player like Charles Barkley was to the 1990's teams. They need a KG type of competitor, a leader. Unless Book is playing injured or something, it is time for him to step up or get prepared to follow someone else. I love Book but I wonder if he is cut out to be a #1 player on a contending team. Maybe he is a Pippen rather than a Jordan.

Monty is probably the best coach we could get, but he has some deficiencies too. Hopefully he will learn. If I was a player, I think I would have a hard time playing for him. He talks so slow, it drives me nuts. If his brain runs as slow as his speech patterns, this team is in trouble.

Enough venting for the moment.

 

[GatorAZ]

yup... Booker and Ayton as foundational players is basically building castles made of sand. It's why coming out of last year's worst season in Suns history with only Cam Johnson to show for it was so devastating. Neither of our two "stars" are a) leaders and b) the total package of talent, physical ability and beast attitude. Missing out on Ja and Zion... two bona-fide number 1 players that could have knocked Book and Ayton down to very very good #2/#3s was what we needed. But the lotto gods screwed us and the rest, I fear, will be history.

we're stuck in a terrible position... much like I think the T-Wolves have been stuck in. There's no doubt Booker and Ayton are our best players, but they just aren't superstars and have done nothing to elevate this team out of being awful. Is there a talent void in the rest of the squad? Yeah... but if any team has what they believe are two superstars or at least a superstar and a budding one (which is what most people here believed, especially when Booker got "snubbed"), then those two guys should be able to elevate much more than what's going on. And they don't. They just simply don't.

The T’Wolves are a good comp for the Suns. We may have some higher upside but nothing significant.

Ayton should be the first option not the third

The problem is he can’t catch a bounce pass half the time. It really makes you appreciate Amare’s hands. On the flip side appreciating Amare makes you appreciate Ayton’s defense.

 

[Bufalay]

After a night to reflect on it I would say that was the most disheartening performance I've ever seen from the Phoenix Suns.

What about the home loss to the nets in 92-93?

 

[AzStevenCal]

What about the home loss to the nets in 92-93?

Nothing stands out about that game to me but from 85 when I moved to So Cal until League Pass started in 95, I was lucky if I could watch a dozen Suns games a year (and the atmospherics had to be just right for me to even pick up the radio broadcast). I looked the game up and it still doesn't refresh my memory but given that we were at home and on a 6 game winning streak I can see why it would have been a very disappointing performance - but not really disheartening. JMO.

 

[cwamjn]

This is the most hopeless I've ever been after a loss. At this point I have no idea if we'll ever make the playoffs again, I kind of doubt it as long as Sarver owns the team. I've followed the team some 1980 and multiple playoff losses to the Lakers hurt. The drug scandal years hurt but nowhere as long as this. The Houston Rockets hurt badly coming back 3-1 two years in a row, but we were at least contenders. I know it's the frustration talking but I wish I could quit caring.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The T’Wolves are a good comp for the Suns. We may have some higher upside but nothing significant.



The problem is he can’t catch a bounce pass half the time. It really makes you appreciate Amare’s hands. On the flip side appreciating Amare makes you appreciate Ayton’s defense.

Most of those bounce passes into the interior are bad passes that are forced in. I have been pretty impressed by Ayton's hands. He catches passes that many others could not.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This is definitely my low point as a fan even considering the postseason disappointments. I was pretty disappointed from many of the playoff losses such as when Cotton's KC team upset us and I was angry as hell when the refs cheated us (and there is no other way to say it) in a loss at New York during the Nash days. We dominated the game but thanks to maybe 50 horrible calls/non-calls the Knicks managed to stay close and ultimately beat us in triple OT. All those losses hurt but they didn't suck the hope out of me. These two have.