We Won Despite CKW...

[Stout]

Now, don't get me wrong...I am so incredibly stoked that we won yesterday. I'll prove it in a breathtaking new thread in a minute. For now, let's address the stupidity behind the situation that could have led to a heartbreaking loss.

The Pats are out of timeouts. We are NOT going to throw the ball. We can take all but 20 seconds off the clock. What is the ONLY FRICKING DECISION in this situation? KNEEL!!! For three straight plays, you KNEEL THE EFFING BALL!!! I was screaming at the TV because we wouldn't kneel. So, of course, because our coach was stupid (he even called a pitch play!) we went on to fumble the ball.

Hey, he coached a heck of a game for 59 minutes. Led us to a victory in that time. I had no problem with his two challenges. Not kneeling with the ball in that situation, however, is inexcusable.

 

[Rivercard]

Now, don't get me wrong...I am so incredibly stoked that we won yesterday. I'll prove it in a breathtaking new thread in a minute. For now, let's address the stupidity behind the situation that could have led to a heartbreaking loss.

The Pats are out of timeouts. We are NOT going to throw the ball. We can take all but 20 seconds off the clock. What is the ONLY FRICKING DECISION in this situation? KNEEL!!! For three straight plays, you KNEEL THE EFFING BALL!!! I was screaming at the TV because we wouldn't kneel. So, of course, because our coach was stupid (he even called a pitch play!) we went on to fumble the ball.

Hey, he coached a heck of a game for 59 minutes. Led us to a victory in that time. I had no problem with his two challenges. Not kneeling with the ball in that situation, however, is inexcusable.

I would argue a run is a much safer play than a kneel & punt (plus you run a few more seconds off the clock). What are the odds of risking a fumble trying to get a first down in that situation vs having the punt mis-snapped, blocked, returned for a TD, or enduring a 20 second miracle Tom Brady hail mary situation (40 yards to a field goal try). Just protect the damn ball!

 

[Buckybird]

Fire Wiz!

I'm not going to 100% agree with you, but we should've never been in that situation.

1)If LaRod brings out the kick, NE likely never sees the ball after Williams 1st down run.

2) IMO the mistake RWill made was cutting back inside with the big boys on a toss play which most likely ensures you will take a big hit. If he stays outside where the plays is designed to go he possibly would have gotten the yardage.

3) I still don't like the thought of Brady getting the ball on his 35 will 30 secs left & the Cards most likely playing a deep zone that he already torched the last 2 drives.

 

[Shane]

Negative you don't kneel

 

[D-Dogg]

Negative you don't kneel

This.

 

[Duckjake]

Negative you don't kneel

Right. A QB sneak maybe? But not a "kneel" that doesn't run enough time off the clock. The toss was the right call. If that goofy rookie doesn't fumble it runs more time off than any other play. As long as the RB does run out of bounds like I've seen some fools do.

Didn't a QB fumble the snap on a play where he was going to take a knee just last season? Nothing in the NFL is Dead Solid Perfect.

 

[BillsCarnage]

We all still post despite stupid threads ;-)

 

[Mitch]

If we had lost the game---this board would be wanting Whisenhunt's head...and rightfully so. That play call was about the stupidest call possible and it was throwing caution to the wind---and you think of guys like DD90 and CC93 who played their arses off all day, only to have their head coach have a total brain fart when the game was virtually wrapped up.

The fact that Whisenhunt doesn't even concede this and is justifying the call---when what he should be doing is saying, MY BAD, not Ryan Williams'.

Williams is really a rookie, playing in his second NFL game. You have a healthy Beanie Wells who is in his 4th year and had played in this situation before.

Even so---neither one of them should have touched the ball on that play. As Stout said, it should have been a kneel down and a punt with 30 seconds left and make the Patriots---without any timeouts try to go 40 yards in two plays and still somehow be able to spike the ball---virtually impossible.

That FUMBLE---that Whisenhunt says is traumatizing him---is on WHISENHUNT, not on Williams...because he should have NEVER put Williams and better yet, THE TEAM, in that position.

There are other things that Whisenhunt deserves good and honest credit for---so I don't want to leave this post without recognizing that---but, for crying out loud, that was as stupid a call as anyone can make in that situation.

 

[Duckjake]

Even so---neither one of them should have touched the ball on that play. As Stout said, it should have been a kneel down and a punt with 30 seconds left and make the Patriots---without any timeouts try to go 40 yards in two plays and still somehow be able to spike the ball---virtually impossible.

Are you talking about the Cardinals or some other team? That's not even remotely impossible against Arizona. Zas would have probably shanked the punt or NE would have returned it for 60 yards or they'd have had a fair catch but we'd have had a 15 yard penalty called on us and then Brady would have thrown a 45 yard pass caught as the receiver went out of bounds barely getting the toe of his drag foot inbounds to stop the clock or .............

 

[Jetstream Green]

No Whis, we are not even in a position to discuss him not kneeling or running. No Whis and with someone else in our stellar history of coaching, we would have been passing blindly for sure being down by thirty points of more. I can't stand all these 'he should have known better' threads when it was Williams fumbling (a first year rookie in reality on the field because Beanie was nursing some injury or another it appears and one has to learn sooner or later in pressure situations). We won, and who cares about what could have happened because I have gone over that crap enough on the losing end. It is what it is, a win which 99.9 percent had to do with great coaching on the coaching level during a whole game. It was freaking Tom Brady, thirty seconds is enough for that guy to get in field goal range, I will take that win no matter what strange things had to happen to buck the odds.

 

[Jim Hart]

If we had lost the game---this board would be wanting Whisenhunt's head...and rightfully so. That play call was about the stupidest call possible and it was throwing caution to the wind---and you think of guys like DD90 and CC93 who played their arses off all day, only to have their head coach have a total brain fart when the game was virtually wrapped up.

The fact that Whisenhunt doesn't even concede this and is justifying the call---when what he should be doing is saying, MY BAD, not Ryan Williams'.

Williams is really a rookie, playing in his second NFL game. You have a healthy Beanie Wells who is in his 4th year and had played in this situation before.

Even so---neither one of them should have touched the ball on that play. As Stout said, it should have been a kneel down and a punt with 30 seconds left and make the Patriots---without any timeouts try to go 40 yards in two plays and still somehow be able to spike the ball---virtually impossible.

That FUMBLE---that Whisenhunt says is traumatizing him---is on WHISENHUNT, not on Williams...because he should have NEVER put Williams and better yet, THE TEAM, in that position.

There are other things that Whisenhunt deserves good and honest credit for---so I don't want to leave this post without recognizing that---but, for crying out loud, that was as stupid a call as anyone can make in that situation.

"If we had lost the game---this board would be wanting Whisenhunt's head...and rightfully so." JFC and I thought you were on of the brighter one's here. Stupid me. Stupid, stupid me.

 

[ajcardfan]

I have no problem with the run call. Calling a pitch was crazy, but Williams caught it and tucked it just fine. I would have called a straight dive or a trap play, up the middle.


As Whisenhunt said in an interview on the radio this afternoon, if you kneel it, the ball gets spotted probably 8 to 10 secs faster than it would after a play and you leave more time on the clock for New England after the punt.

If he had called a pass play, that would've been the worst thing he could've done. At least he wasn't that nuts. Although if that had worked, there would be no shortage of people here praising his aggressiveness, blah, blah, blah.

 

[seesred]

Wells should have been in at that time. Has been there before!

GBR
40

 

[Shane]

I have no problem with the run call. Calling a pitch was crazy, but Williams caught it and tucked it just fine. I would have called a straight dive or a trap play, up the middle.


As Whisenhunt said in an interview on the radio this afternoon, if you kneel it, the ball gets spotted probably 8 to 10 secs faster than it would after a play and you leave more time on the clock for New England after the punt.

If he had called a pass play, that would've been the worst thing he could've done. At least he wasn't that nuts. Although if that had worked, there would be no shortage of people here praising his aggressiveness, blah, blah, blah.

Yup not only the clock issue but also this is a game of inches. Now your spotting the ball 2 yards further back with each kneel and giving them more time.

 

[Jim Hart]

It's all the Bill Kolowski's fault. Every turn-over from here out. Oh, or Whisenhunt's. Dude put the team in position, and ultimately won in a place, and time that no other team has won in over 10 years. Dude sucks! Terrible coach. Cannot put talent together, cannot organize them, cannot keep them out of the media (negatively) ... What a joke of a coach that guy is right?

 

[MrYeahBut]

Williams is really a rookie, playing in his second NFL game. You have a healthy Beanie Wells who is in his 4th year and had played in this situation before.

You've seen Beanie take a pitch before, right? How did that turn out?

Can Whiz do no right? If they've run a qb sneak or kneel and something funky happened, coach would've been fried again for that call. To me, it was a gutsy call, just another way to win the game. Why not try to make a first down and win the game outright?

Did I not have a heart attack when it happened the way it did, yes.

Stuff happens, we won.


.

 

[187]

You have a healthy Beanie Wells who is in his 4th year and had played in this situation before.

Nope. They announced that he was dealing with some sort of injury and that is why he didn't see a single snap during the drive where Ryan got the ball 5 straight times and then fumbled. Between his knee and tweaked hammy I don't think he's been fully healthy yet this season. He's always got some nagging issue lingering around.

edit:

Or not. I stand corrected.

 

[D-Dogg]

Honestly, the only thing people should argue about is whether the guy running it should have been LSH to the outside there. He has good ball security, and probably the most likely of them all to pick up the first down.

Otherwise, absolutely NOTHING wrong with that call.

 

[Shane]

Honestly, the only thing people should argue about is whether the guy running it should have been LSH to the outside there. He has good ball security, and probably the most likely of them all to pick up the first down.

Otherwise, absolutely NOTHING wrong with that call.

Yep.

 

[D-Dogg]

Nope. They announced that he was dealing with some sort of injury and that is why he didn't see a single snap during the drive where Ryan got the ball 5 straight times and then fumbled. Between his knee and tweaked hammy I don't think he's been fully healthy yet this season. He's always got some nagging issue lingering around.

NO THEY DIDN'T!

Lynch said that in the freaking booth because he was assuming. Beanie said he was not injured. CKW in his presser today said the only reason RW was in was it was his turn, not an injury thing. He splits their carries.

Good god, Lynch says one thing about injury and people took it for knowledge.

RW was in the game because it was his turn. Whis said it. Beanie said he was not injured, at all.

Stop perpetuating Lynch's myth, please.

 

[Mitch]

You've seen Beanie take a pitch before, right? How did that turn out?

Can Whiz do no right? If they've run a qb sneak or kneel and something funky happened, coach would've been fried again for that call. To me, it was a gutsy call, just another way to win the game. Why not try to make a first down and win the game outright?

Did I not have a heart attack when it happened the way it did, yes.

Stuff happens, we won.


.

Gutsy?

Are you kidding me?

After the effort he got from his football team, you are going to RISK a TOSS???---TOSSED FROM THE INSIDE NO LESS???---where if a LB shoots the A gap he can cause an easy fumble even before it's tossed (usually the QB is told to reverse pivot on the toss because then the QB can shield it with his body)---

Gutsy? On a 3rd and 13 yards, that has NO chance of getting a first down, to a RB who has NEVER been in THAT position in the NFL and WHO FUMBLED LAST WEEK---even worse you put your star WR, Fitz, to the side of the toss play, who commanded two defenders to his side, which again makes it virtually impossible to think you have any chance at all of making 13 yards.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

The only reason you kneel is because you have battered Cardinals fan syndrome. You expect something terrible to happen on a good football play.

Ryan Williams had just gotten us a rushing first down. The correct guy ran the ball. I love Beanie but no way do I trust him on a pitch play.

The play was correctly executed until the player fumbled the ball. I know there are the select few on here that just wait at the opportunity to bitch and second guess about the coach...but you are 100% wrong on this. It was Ryan Williams fumble, his fault, and even still we won.

 

[Cards_Campos]

If we had lost the game---this board would be wanting Whisenhunt's head...and rightfully so. That play call was about the stupidest call possible and it was throwing caution to the wind---and you think of guys like DD90 and CC93 who played their arses off all day, only to have their head coach have a total brain fart when the game was virtually wrapped up.

The fact that Whisenhunt doesn't even concede this and is justifying the call---when what he should be doing is saying, MY BAD, not Ryan Williams'.

Williams is really a rookie, playing in his second NFL game. You have a healthy Beanie Wells who is in his 4th year and had played in this situation before.

Even so---neither one of them should have touched the ball on that play. As Stout said, it should have been a kneel down and a punt with 30 seconds left and make the Patriots---without any timeouts try to go 40 yards in two plays and still somehow be able to spike the ball---virtually impossible.

That FUMBLE---that Whisenhunt says is traumatizing him---is on WHISENHUNT, not on Williams...because he should have NEVER put Williams and better yet, THE TEAM, in that position.

There are other things that Whisenhunt deserves good and honest credit for---so I don't want to leave this post without recognizing that---but, for crying out loud, that was as stupid a call as anyone can make in that situation.

This 10000% This is why I stopped posting. This goes back to Warner versus Leinart. It isn't even logical. And that is why 99% of all pundits, reporters, NFL gurus say..."That was the dumbest play ever!"


1) No way with 11 men in the box was he going to gain 13 yards!
2) They PITCHED the ball!!! So not only do you add a degree of difficulty to the play...You make it where the Williams has to keep his eye on the ball and not see what is coming his way!
3) We PITCH the ball OUTSIDE. SO worse...he catches it and gets hit and stumbles OUT of Bounds!....SO NE gets the ball with plenty of time.
4) How can anyone HONESTLY with a straight face say we should run the ball??????? Really...the Cardinals fumble runs all the time!!! Does anyone remember Hightower 2 years ago????? He Fumbled with 1 minute to go and we lost???
5) You play the ODDS!!!! You kneel....and then punt and NE would have had 20 seconds left. 1:10 minus the kneel(3 seconds) and then about 1-2 to set the clock and then -40 seconds equal 25 seconds....then You punt and another 5 seconds are taken off. Now I love Brady but if he can drive them 40 yards in 20 seconds and get the FG unit on....Then they deserve to win. If we call A FRICKEN Pitch to a guy who FRICKEN FUMBLED last week ALREADY...that makes no sense....I am sorry....
It isn't even logical when you weigh the other options. A kneel and punt leaving 20 seconds left has WON thousands of games.....Keep running the ball has cost many a team the game including us just 2 years ago!

 

[CtCardinals78]

I'm fine with RW running the ball there, but a toss was a very risky call there. RW did have plenty of time to control that ball better before he was hit though. Bad play call, but even worse ball security.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Gutsy?

Are you kidding me?

After the effort he got from his football team, you are going to RISK a TOSS???---TOSSED FROM THE INSIDE NO LESS???---where if a LB shoots the A gap he can cause an easy fumble even before it's tossed (usually the QB is told to reverse pivot on the toss because then the QB can shield it with his body)---

Gutsy? On a 3rd and 13 yards, that has NO chance of getting a first down, to a RB who has NEVER been in THAT position in the NFL and WHO FUMBLED LAST WEEK---even worse you put your star WR, Fitz, to the side of the toss play, who commanded two defenders to his side, which again makes it virtually impossible to think you have any chance at all of making 13 yards.

Bzzzz....

Wrong...


The pitch worked. It was secure. The player fumbled. Get over it. Quit bitching about the best coach the Arizona Cardinals have ever had whenever you get the chance.