We Won Despite CKW...

[Cardiac]

Well you and Mith are in the very very very clear minority. Nor can either if you cite a time when another nfl coach has empowered that decision?

Yep. Can't recall a time when a coach had the QB go fetal and then punted. It appears none of the critics can find such an example because, well it's just not done.

But as long as there is an opportunity to bash Whiz then go ahead and take it.

One of my favorite lines from Rugby ( and there has been several) was when he said, "throw Whiz in the pool and them complain he is wet".

 

[PJ1]

Honestly I hated the call and the fact they had Williams running it. I had a sick feeling when I saw the ball pitched to him. Then the horror of watching the hit and ball pop up in the air.

The good news is it looks like we found a perfect replacement for THT.

 

[Stout]

Well you and Mith are in the very very very clear minority. Nor can either if you cite a time when another nfl coach has empowered that decision?

I'd go research it if I had the faintest bit of spare time. Grad school has me swamped.

We got the best of fate pure and simple. We won. That is the only thing that makes this playcalling ok. We lose and it is a whole different animal. That fumble 9 times out of 10 is disaterous and the kicker makes the kick and is handed a win. He didn't and we live to fight another day.....

Bingo. Because they missed the FG, people are downplaying it.

But as long as there is an opportunity to bash Whiz then go ahead and take it.

That's unworthy of you. I defended CKW on the two challenges, and on the whole game up until that call. I'm not calling him out in hindsight, either--I wanted us to kneel before the play was run.

 

[DakotaCardsFan]

Looks like Jerrry Jones is has been reading this thread and is weighing in on the "We should have taken a knee on" debate:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000063715/article/jerry-jones-nfl-should-eliminate-kneeldown-plays

This line made me think of this thread:

"

Many drunken arguments have erupted between college roomates over the use of the QB kneel ..." (in Madden)
​

​

 

[john h]

I would argue a run is a much safer play than a kneel & punt (plus you run a few more seconds off the clock). What are the odds of risking a fumble trying to get a first down in that situation vs having the punt mis-snapped, blocked, returned for a TD, or enduring a 20 second miracle Tom Brady hail mary situation (40 yards to a field goal try). Just protect the damn ball!

You can make an argument either way. Same with the kick into our end-zone. Should he have run it out or not? What ever your position we won so what ever we did turned out to be right. I do not know that I ever went from such a high to such a low and then back to a high in so few seconds in my life. I had just begin to think how it really sucked to lose like this when NE missed the FG. It took a few seconds to even sink in. Seemed the same with the NE and Cards players.

How about those fans leaving early and then having to run back only to see the team lose. That was a game for the ages and ranks right up there with our loss to the Bears some years ago and that crazy speech our Coach gave to the media that day.

 

[Cardiac]

That's unworthy of you. I defended CKW on the two challenges, and on the whole game up until that call. I'm not calling him out in hindsight, either--I wanted us to kneel before the play was run.

I can see how you thought I directed that at you since I quoted Shane who had quoted you in a previous post. I meant more to some posters who seem to blame Whiz for anything and everything.

I do take exception to the title of your Thread and the use of words like inexscusable. Fact is you have a tendancy to get more than a bit riled up and vent in excess at times. All good because you are as big a Cards fan as there is.

 

[40yearfan]

"Quit bitching about the best coach the Arizona Cardinals have ever had." I seriously wonder how this board, (some) have become so self-entitled. This is the best shape this organization has ever, ever, ever, ever, been in, yet people still whine.

Welcome to ASFN. We could beat Pittsburgh by 40 points in the Super Bowl and there would be people on here complaining about certain plays. It is the nature of Cardinal fans who cannot accept the fact that this is not their fathers' Cardinals.

Really, some people just aren't happy if they ain't bitchin' bout "sumthin".

 

[WisconsinCard]

You're absolutely 100% correct!! Some of the Whiz haters on this board just can't deal with the fact that they prematurely called for Whiz's scalp last year & they were WRONG!! They should eat their plate of crow & move on. But they won't.

I agree 100% no NFL coach takes a knee on that play.

 

[THESMEL]

hmm

RWILL's 2nd game as a pro- He fumbled last game- yep only stupid coaching would pitch it and risk a franchise boosting win like this Patriots game.

Miller took all my excitement and enthusiasm- All my hope and dreams of better days ahead- and left me babbling to myself staring at the next game - not seeing a thing- GUTSHOT-

The first time the patriots and Brady ever lost a home opener at Gillette - and instead of walking confidently into the season- GUTSHOT-

Cause Our OC has no business being an NFL OC - No other team would hire him- and Whiz is sick in the head for hiring him and keeping him after stupid crap like this. That was a deal breaker- GUTSHOT

It wasleft up to the Patriots kicker by incompent coaching- We would strung up any QB that called that crap! A GUTSHOT WIN after 59 minutes-
From Faith to- Fart in 1 minute.

Fire Wiz!

I'm not going to 100% agree with you, but we should've never been in that situation.

1)If LaRod brings out the kick, NE likely never sees the ball after Williams 1st down run.

2) IMO the mistake RWill made was cutting back inside with the big boys on a toss play which most likely ensures you will take a big hit. If he stays outside where the plays is designed to go he possibly would have gotten the yardage.

3) I still don't like the thought of Brady getting the ball on his 35 will 30 secs left & the Cards most likely playing a deep zone that he already torched the last 2 drives.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

I don't suppose if I close my eyes and click my heels together three times it will be tomorrow and we can have something new to complain about....

 

[Bodha]

I dont know how to feel about Whiz.


Half the time I feel like taking Horton as our HC.




The popular topic in this thread: The Ryan Williams fumble.

I said the words prior to the play "They should just take a knee here and then punt it. We arent running for the 13 yards regardless. With a knee, you accomplish the same thing, and dont risk a fumble"

- that seems like playground friggin common sense and he runs it still?


CKW better watch his ass the rest of the year. Horton has proved to be a more than capable coach.

 

[Krangodnzr]

CKW better watch his ass the rest of the year. Horton has proved to be a more than capable coach.

Defensive coordinator, yes.

Dick Lebeau was a terrible head coach, and as much as I like Horton so far, he can't carry Lebeau's jock yet as a d-coordinator.

I heard Whisenhunt's explanation and it makes 100% sense. The pitch would run the most time off the clock. Then you punt and Brady most likely has to go 50 yards with 20 seconds. That's a better situation than most running plays or a kneel which would probably give him 30 seconds, or possible TWO additional plays.

No one would be bitching if Williams takes care of the ball. That has NOTHING to do with the play call. The play call WORKED, the player didn't execute. That isn't debateable; if Williams holds on to the ball it would work exactly as intended.

 

[THESMEL]

yea

Yea thats the ticket- ther is no place like home- click, click- there is no place like home- Click, click - there is no place like home - Click, click.
Come on Toto lets go home.

Mike Miller will try to clench defeat from the jaws of victoy - once again- whiz aint got no sense- Wants to force his will rather accept what the opponents offer - fundementally sound football was Cower's thing- Whiz hasn't the patients for such non sensense.

Williams fumbled last game Kraig- It is his 2nd NFL game! No No other coach does that- NONE that wants to win the game.

I don't suppose if I close my eyes and click my heels together three times it will be tomorrow and we can have something new to complain about....

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Defensive coordinator, yes.

Dick Lebeau was a terrible head coach, and as much as I like Horton so far, he can't carry Lebeau's jock yet as a d-coordinator.

I heard Whisenhunt's explanation and it makes 100% sense. The pitch would run the most time off the clock. Then you punt and Brady most likely has to go 50 yards with 20 seconds. That's a better situation than most running plays or a kneel which would probably give him 30 seconds, or possible TWO additional plays.

No one would be bitching if Williams takes care of the ball. That has NOTHING to do with the play call. The play call WORKED, the player didn't execute. That isn't debateable; if Williams holds on to the ball it would work exactly as intended.

Yeah Krang, it's a plausible explanation, but a pitch play? Seriously?

CW or anybody can talk till their blue in the face, but I'm never going to believe that the Cardinals weren't begging for trouble with that play call.

Just the simple fact that you put RW out in space where a LB can run downhill at him is a problem. He was set up to take a giant hit.

 

[Bodha]

I heard Whisenhunt's explanation and it makes 100% sense. The pitch would run the most time off the clock. Then you punt and Brady most likely has to go 50 yards with 20 seconds. That's a better situation than most running plays or a kneel which would probably give him 30 seconds, or possible TWO additional plays.

No one would be bitching if Williams takes care of the ball. That has NOTHING to do with the play call. The play call WORKED, the player didn't execute. That isn't debateable; if Williams holds on to the ball it would work exactly as intended.

Disagree. The pitch might take an extra 3-5 seconds off the clock, with the massive addition of very high fumble odds. Rookie + high pressure situation + fumble habit + D who needs a strip the ball more than anything + the risky play a pitch is as is = no excuse.


Even had he not fumbled, it still wouldve been BS because the chances were there and I couldnt believe theyd even test fate like that.

 

[ajcardfan]

CKW better watch his ass the rest of the year. Horton has proved to be a more than capable coach.

Sorry, but this is total BS as of 9/22/12. Whis has nothing to fear. He's the winningest Cards coach ever, the team turned it around when they could've tanked last year, not to mention all of the Cards most meaningful postseason success has come with him. Whis would have to eat a live baby on the sidelines to lose this job.

IMO, Whisenhunt proved he was a great coach LAST season when this team started 1-6 and finished 7-2. What other Arizona Cardinals coach was able to rally a team with that bad of record? Answer = none. Stallings, Ryan, Tobin, McGinnis, Green..... all of their teams quit on them.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Disagree. The pitch might take an extra 3-5 seconds off the clock, with the massive addition of very high fumble odds. Rookie + high pressure situation + fumble habit + D who needs a strip the ball more than anything + the risky play a pitch is as is = no excuse.


Even had he not fumbled, it still wouldve been BS because the chances were there and I couldnt believe theyd even test fate like that.

Negative, if you kneel down you burn like a second off and the play clock starts immediately. However by running a pitch play you get the ball outside the tackles and run about 5 seconds off the clock on the play alone, but the real kicker is that the play clock wouldn't start up again until the ball was actually spotted which could have easily taken another 5 or 6 seconds. With a kneel down the Patriots offense would have gotten the ball with about 20 second and would have likely needed only 15-20 yards to get a FG off, but with the outside run they likely would have had about 10 second to go the same distance with no timeouts, much less likely.

 

[Fitz Rulz]

10 seconds and that if they don't want to return the punt to get a better field position.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Negative, if you kneel down you burn like a second off and the play clock starts immediately. However by running a pitch play you get the ball outside the tackles and run about 5 seconds off the clock on the play alone, but the real kicker is that the play clock wouldn't start up again until the ball was actually spotted which could have easily taken another 5 or 6 seconds. With a kneel down the Patriots offense would have gotten the ball with about 20 second and would have likely needed only 15-20 yards to get a FG off, but with the outside run they likely would have had about 10 second to go the same distance with no timeouts, much less likely.

Yep, exactly. The ref has to spot the ball, not to mention the play takes longer.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Yeah Krang, it's a plausible explanation, but a pitch play? Seriously?

CW or anybody can talk till their blue in the face, but I'm never going to believe that the Cardinals weren't begging for trouble with that play call.

Just the simple fact that you put RW out in space where a LB can run downhill at him is a problem. He was set up to take a giant hit.

Plausible explanation? Or the reason for why they called it? You make it sound like they are CYA (covering their *****).

All Williams had to do was hold onto the ball with two hands and not fumble. I don't want our team playing scared; they shouldn't have to worry about a player fumbling on a standard NFL playcall.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Negative, if you kneel down you burn like a second off and the play clock starts immediately. However by running a pitch play you get the ball outside the tackles and run about 5 seconds off the clock on the play alone, but the real kicker is that the play clock wouldn't start up again until the ball was actually spotted which could have easily taken another 5 or 6 seconds. With a kneel down the Patriots offense would have gotten the ball with about 20 second and would have likely needed only 15-20 yards to get a FG off, but with the outside run they likely would have had about 10 second to go the same distance with no timeouts, much less likely.

Not to mention is is just as likely that New England could be called for a penalty and either give us another play or even a first down, as a fumble. You take a knee you take that out of the equation.

Another thing that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread but I noticed from my cheap seats in the stadium. I was watching the play clock and KK snapped the ball just as it went from 5 seconds to 4. That in my mind is too early, it should be as the clock strikes 1 not 4.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Not to mention is is just as likely that New England could be called for a penalty and either give us another play or even a first down, as a fumble. You take a knee you take that out of the equation.

Another thing that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread but I noticed from my cheap seats in the stadium. I was watching the play clock and KK snapped the ball just as it went from 5 seconds to 4. That in my mind is too early, it should be as the clock strikes 1 not 4.

I actually thought he snapped it at like 6 seconds which was even worse, but fortunately we got away with it.