Week 3 Snap Counts (and thoughts)

[Chopper0080]

I mean look at Byron Murphy. Vance chose to play Dre Kirkpatrick an almost similar snap % last year because Vance didn't want to play Murphy outside. Now Murphy is playing outside as well as inside and is doing fine.

 

[Russ Smith]

They are playing a lot of two-high S from I have seen and then keeping Baker back when they go man. Playing him more like Earl Thomas then Tyrann Mathieu.

Basically he is invisible because they are playing him so deep and letting him come downhill to support the run and the crossing routes. To your point I believe they feel like they can do this because of JThompson's tackling ability.

Yep been saying it awhile now if Jalen can stay healthy he has a chance to be a really good player and we're seeing it now. Needs to make more plays on the ball but I think that will come. 17 tackles 13 solo in 3 games at FS. He made several if he doesn't get him nobody does tackles against Cook and the Vikings.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

They are playing a lot of two-high S from I have seen and then keeping Baker back when they go man. Playing him more like Earl Thomas then Tyrann Mathieu.

Basically he is invisible because they are playing him so deep and letting him come downhill to support the run and the crossing routes. To your point I believe they feel like they can do this because of JThompson's tackling ability.

Completely changing how a top tier safety plays (and basically making him invisible) to take advantage of Thompson's tackling ability is an odd move.

It's impressive we're getting good results when for the large part, our big name players Jones/Watt/Baker have been quiet of late.

 

[Chopper0080]

Completely changing how a top tier safety plays (and basically making him invisible) to take advantage of Thompson's tackling ability is an odd move.

It's impressive we're getting good results when for the large part, our big name players Jones/Watt/Baker have been quiet of late.

You have that a bit backward. Because Vance trusts Thompson's tackling ability he is playing Thompson more in the box and Baker further back from the LOS. Baker can diagnose quickly which means he can come up in run support faster than most. Baker is also really smart and keeping him back helps protect the CBs from being beat deep.

Basically a more conservative style/alignment to help protect the CBs. There is also the added benefit that teams identify where Baker is on the field and when they see him deep they tend to target routes away from him.The scheme also has featured more zone from what I have seen.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

You have that a bit backward. Because Vance trusts Thompson's tackling ability he is playing Thompson more in the box and Baker further back from the LOS. Baker can diagnose quickly which means he can come up in run support faster than most. Baker is also really smart and keeping him back helps protect the CBs from being beat deep.

Basically a more conservative style/alignment to help protect the CBs. There is also the added benefit that teams identify where Baker is on the field and when they see him deep they tend to target routes away from him.The scheme also has featured more zone from what I have seen.

It makes sense to try and protect our corners, but wouldn't Budda be better served to have a CF type safety next to him, so he can use his instincts to make plays, ala Badger?

I appreciate the fact that Budda can help plug holes, but I'm worried that role might also neutralize his play making ability.

 

[DVontel]

You have that a bit backward. Because Vance trusts Thompson's tackling ability he is playing Thompson more in the box and Baker further back from the LOS. Baker can diagnose quickly which means he can come up in run support faster than most. Baker is also really smart and keeping him back helps protect the CBs from being beat deep.

Basically a more conservative style/alignment to help protect the CBs. There is also the added benefit that teams identify where Baker is on the field and when they see him deep they tend to target routes away from him.The scheme also has featured more zone from what I have seen.

Love Jalen. The most underrated player on defense. We definitely don’t win that Minnesota game without him.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Yep been saying it awhile now if Jalen can stay healthy he has a chance to be a really good player and we're seeing it now. Needs to make more plays on the ball but I think that will come. 17 tackles 13 solo in 3 games at FS. He made several if he doesn't get him nobody does tackles against Cook and the Vikings.

I'd love to see how many TD saving tackles Jalen Thompson has had this year. I'd guess it's been at least 3-4.

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

My opinion, no. I felt like Simmons looked good last year at times which is what being a rookie is. It is not a shock when a talented player generates more production when he plays more.

For context.

Simmons is within 2% of his completion % allowed last year this year.

Simmons recorded a solo tackle at a higher frequency last year than he has this year on a per snap basis. He is 3% below last years % per snap.

Simmons is being used as a blitzer 6% less than last year when he had decent pressure rates for his # of snaps.

Simmons missed tackle % is also nearly identical to last year as well.

The main difference is the passer rating allowed is significantly lower but that is because he is being used in coverage more than last year. More like a S than a LB.

So, no. I don't think Vance's approach last year helped his development much.

good stats to look at. I guess Vance should've been playing Isiah more... but who knows what those stats would've looked like from his rookie year if he was left out there for a bunch more Raheem Mostert-esque plays where Isiah just gets burned... probably a lot more of those during the 1st month of last year if Vance didnt limit his snaps.

but overall yes, I would say the stats support Isiah was played too little. Still doesnt make me concerned about Zaven

 

[Chopper0080]

It makes sense to try and protect our corners, but wouldn't Budda be better served to have a CF type safety next to him, so he can use his instincts to make plays, ala Badger?

I appreciate the fact that Budda can help plug holes, but I'm worried that role might also neutralize his play making ability.

I prefer Baker coming downhill to make plays than having to make plays with his back to the ball. I also think it is a mistake to compare many player to Tyrann Mathieu. He isn't the ballhawk that Earl Thomas was but I think Baker's game is more similar to that than Tyrann's.

 

[Chopper0080]

good stats to look at. I guess Vance should've been playing Isiah more... but who knows what those stats would've looked like from his rookie year if he was left out there for a bunch more Raheem Mostert-esque plays where Isiah just gets burned... probably a lot more of those during the 1st month of last year if Vance didnt limit his snaps.

but overall yes, I would say the stats support Isiah was played too little. Still doesnt make me concerned about Zaven

I wouldn't be concerned about Zaven. Like Simmons he is a good enough athlete that he will be fine. It is the Cardinals defense and cap that I worry about. The Cardinals drafted a huge athlete to put in the middle of their defense and are still playing Hicks 100% to the detriment of the defense at times. You can't afford to waste years of cap controlled cheap players in the NFL especially once we pay Kyler.

I will say that snap % for Collins has been significantly better than Simmons was last year, but his snaps are coming at the expense of other plays and not Hicks.

EDIT: What we are learning about Simmons is that he is a tremendous asset in coverage and in space. Why he isn't our base SS if you are going to play Hicks this much is beyond me at this point.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Our run defense seems better when Dogbe is playing

 

[Chopper0080]

Ok, no I am triggered that Vance is choosing to play Simmons at one EDGE spot in base defense at 238 lbs which cuts him off from half the field when you could put him at SS in the middle of the field. And his best trait is his coverage at this point. You have Dennard and Golden to play on the EDGE and at least Dennard is disciplined enough to do it. Could bring in Alford and JThompson in sub packages. Hell putting Collins or Simmons on the EDGE in sbu packages makes more sense in base than Simmons as a base EDGE player.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think Marco is at least a contributing corner in the NFL. A guy you can play who doesn't embarrass you.

Wolfley just said on the radio that coaches are telling him privately that Marco Wilson is the team's best cover corner. That is rather shocking.

 

[DVontel]

Ok, no I am triggered that Vance is choosing to play Simmons at one EDGE spot in base defense at 238 lbs which cuts him off from half the field when you could put him at SS in the middle of the field. And his best trait is his coverage at this point. You have Dennard and Golden to play on the EDGE and at least Dennard is disciplined enough to do it. Could bring in Alford and JThompson in sub packages. Hell putting Collins or Simmons on the EDGE in sbu packages makes more sense in base than Simmons as a base EDGE player.

I don’t want Isaiah at SS. His legs are a bit too choppy. He’s not like Derwin where he has the fluid-ness to do so. I don’t mind Isaiah lined up at EDGE as long as there is a TE on that side, which there always been from my memory.

Maybe take out Jalen for goal-line packages, but him along with Budda & Isaiah should always be on the field together otherwise.

 

[Shane]

I prefer Baker coming downhill to make plays than having to make plays with his back to the ball. I also think it is a mistake to compare many player to Tyrann Mathieu. He isn't the ballhawk that Earl Thomas was but I think Baker's game is more similar to that than Tyrann's.

Budda is def no ball hawk at all.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Wolfley just said on the radio that coaches are telling him privately that Marco Willson is the team's best cover corner. That is rather shocking.

I think he could be, just need to see more to confirm it.

 

[ProdigalSun]

So lucky that he traded up to get him? sounds like he targeted him

edit: Brit already covered this. moving along....

Lucky in the sense that it seems like Marco should have gone much earlier than 4. Good on Keim for taking advantage of the opportunity though...

 

[BritCard]

Wolfley just said on the radio that coaches are telling him privately that Marco Willson is the team's best cover corner. That is rather shocking.

This isn't really that surprising. His speed and agility measurables are far higher than Alford and Murphy and those are quite crucial to covering WRs.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don’t want Isaiah at SS. His legs are a bit too choppy. He’s not like Derwin where he has the fluid-ness to do so. I don’t mind Isaiah lined up at EDGE as long as there is a TE on that side, which there always been from my memory.

Maybe take out Jalen for goal-line packages, but him along with Budda & Isaiah should always be on the field together otherwise.

I want the best possible size and speed combo possible out of our 3-4 base and IMO, that would have Simmons at SS. We play in a run heavy division and we struggle to physically match up a lot of the time vs the run.

 

[BritCard]

I want the best possible size and speed combo possible out of our 3-4 base and IMO, that would have Simmons at SS. We play in a run heavy division and we struggle to physically match up a lot of the time vs the run.

Maybe this will change with Gardeck back?

Maybe Simmons is playing some of the role Gardeck would play to allow Collins more snaps?

We shall see. Sadly, I don't see them giving Simmons snaps at SS. Maybe they call it a nickel linebacker instead but it's the same role.

 

[BigRedRage]

I didn't see this anywhere and I know some people have said they hate mega-threads so I am going to post this separate regardless.

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Thanks for posting! Quite a surprise to see AJ green on the field so much more than Kirk and Moore at this point in the season. It makes some sense as he is an outside WR but he has been significantly under expectations while Kirk is shining and Moore obv has huge potential. I wonder if it was a matchup thing with TEs and whatnot.

 

[HomerPimpson]

I'm really not a fan of Hicks. I was keying on him last game and he can't shed a block to save his life and isn't quick enough to swim past or get around it. He just gets stoned. He'll get a lot of tackles 6+ yards downfield, but only because he isn't athletic enough to make the play sooner. He probably knows it's coming, I'm sure he's a smart football player, but athletically he's extremely limited.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Thanks for posting! Quite a surprise to see AJ green on the field so much more than Kirk and Moore at this point in the season. It makes some sense as he is an outside WR but he has been significantly under expectations while Kirk is shining and Moore obv has huge potential. I wonder if it was a matchup thing with TEs and whatnot.

Or if they determined they don't want Kirk or Moore on the outside...

 

[Shane]

Thanks for posting! Quite a surprise to see AJ green on the field so much more than Kirk and Moore at this point in the season. It makes some sense as he is an outside WR but he has been significantly under expectations while Kirk is shining and Moore obv has huge potential. I wonder if it was a matchup thing with TEs and whatnot.

“Significantly under expectations” ?

He has 22 more yards receiving than Dhop and only 3 less receptions?

What exactly were you expecting?

 

[HomerPimpson]