Welcome Cam Johnson

[GatorAZ]

Mike Miller was another rare exception in the Kyle Korver mold, and both Miller and Korver would be eaten alive in today's NBA.

Meanwhile, I suggest you go back to the first few pages of this very thread. This is the same player that had this board in full blown meltdown mode on draft night. He is no different as a player now.

Miller would be even better than he was in today’s game. He could handle, pass, shoot, post up... The Suns should’ve made a move for him during SSOL.

 

[Superbone]

Michael Jordan was one dimensional. He tended to just win chanpionships.

No he wasn't.

 

[Yuma]

I guess you guys missed my point. :-(

 

[Finito]

You the one who is making false claims that I am searching for a "perfect" player with Lottery Pick, when in fact I am merely looking for something better than one-dimensional with that one dimension being inevitably subject to slumps and with the player being a negative on the court during such slumps. Then you compounded that by falsely claiming that Dennis Rodman and Ben Wallace were one-dimensional. Then you compounded that by trying to evoke James Harden in a conversation about Cam Johnson. I stand by my credibility claim.

When you bitch and complain about ever player ever yeah kinda becomes your thing

 

[Raze]

Two questions seem to be uneccessarily conflated here: Was Cam Johnson a reach, and is Cam Johnson productive?

Was he a reach? From everything I gather, yes he was. It sounds like he could have been had 10 spots back which reduces the value we got at #11. Of course we don't have the full information as the Hornets might have drafted him at #12. We don't know. But best guess is that he was a hefty reach. And to be clear, this has NOTHING to do with his production.

Was he productive? There is no doubt he was productive. In fact, it's rediculous to argue about it at this point. As pointed out above his 3pt shooting efficiency was rare for a rookie. It'll be interesting to see where he lands in redrafts over the next 5 years. A few weeks ago BR did one that had him go #12:

12. Charlotte Hornets: Cameron Johnson

The 11th pick felt generous for Johnson on draft night, as his low ceiling as a specialist meant he would need to provide immediate impact to justify the selection. Hitting 91 threes at a 39.7 percent clip in 49 games feels like it qualifies.


I said it at the time and I'll say it again, I'm glad JJ drafted Cam. I just don't like how he did it.

 

[Superbone]

I guess you guys missed my point. :-(

My bad. I reread it and I get it now. Although, I'm not going to take all the blame. The delivery could have been honed a bit more.

 

[1Sun]

I guess you guys missed my point. :-(

Well, extending that point to its conclusion, outside of the Celtics teams of the 1960s, the best player in NBA history is...Robert Horry...

 

[Phrazbit]

Just stop, you guys are arguing with someone who claims Cam Johnson's shooting motion is so slow that he can't even get a shot off. There is no point in rational debate.

 

[Superbone]

Just stop, you guys are arguing with someone who claims Cam Johnson's shooting motion is so slow that he can't even get a shot off. There is no point in rational debate.

You guys are arguing with air in my feed.

 

[1Sun]

Just stop, you guys are arguing with someone who claims Cam Johnson's shooting motion is so slow that he can't even get a shot off. There is no point in rational debate.

Mischaracterization of my point. Cam Johnson has a hitch in his shot where he recoils the ball at waist level or below, which means he then needs to rush his shot to get it off.

 

[Mainstreet]

Mischaracterization of my point. Cam Johnson has a hitch in his shot where he recoils the ball at waist level or below, which means he then needs to rush his shot to get it off.

It stands to reason you might have a problem with Mikal Bridge's shot as well.

 

[1Sun]

It stands to reason you might have a problem with Mikal Bridge's shot as well.

Actually, Bridges has far less of a hitch than Cam Johnson does, but yes I do have a problem with Bridges' shot. The difference is that Bridges is one of the best young defenders in the NBA. Cam Johnson brings absolutely nothing else to the table other than his erratic outside shot.

 

[Mainstreet]

Except for giving Bridges the edge on defense not a lot of difference between these two players their rookie season.

https://www.basketball-reference.co...player_id2=bridgmi01&idx=bbr__players&y2=2019

 

[1Sun]

Except for giving Bridges the edge on defense not a lot of difference between these two players their rookie season.

https://www.basketball-reference.co...player_id2=bridgmi01&idx=bbr__players&y2=2019

Massive edge on defense, and people here were ready to run Bridges out of town, despite him showing elite defensive capabilities.

 

[Proximo]

Massive edge on defense, and people here were ready to run Bridges out of town, despite him showing elite defensive capabilities.

Massive is pushing it, but cam had an advantage offensively. Actually I am quite shocked how close the comparison really is.

Nobody was looking to run bridges out of town, he has been one of the most liked players from almost day 1.

I am getting a feeling Cam is going to improve a lot offensively this coming year.

 

[JerkFace]

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[GoldGloveschmidt]

I love Cam Johnson

 

[1Sun]

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Now post the same rankings for Brandon Clarke, P.J. Washington and Tyler Herro...

 

[Hoop Head]

Now post the same rankings for Brandon Clarke, P.J. Washington and Tyler Herro...

Why don't you? No one else cares and where they ranked has zero impact on the Suns.

 

[JerkFace]

Now post the same rankings for Brandon Clarke, P.J. Washington and Tyler Herro...

That would be pretty weird for me to post stuff on Clarke, Washington, and Herro considering this is a Cameron Johnson thread on a Phoenix Suns forum.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Two questions seem to be uneccessarily conflated here: Was Cam Johnson a reach, and is Cam Johnson productive?

Was he a reach? From everything I gather, yes he was. It sounds like he could have been had 10 spots back which reduces the value we got at #11. Of course we don't have the full information as the Hornets might have drafted him at #12. We don't know. But best guess is that he was a hefty reach. And to be clear, this has NOTHING to do with his production.

Was he productive? There is no doubt he was productive. In fact, it's rediculous to argue about it at this point. As pointed out above his 3pt shooting efficiency was rare for a rookie. It'll be interesting to see where he lands in redrafts over the next 5 years. A few weeks ago BR did one that had him go #12:

12. Charlotte Hornets: Cameron Johnson

The 11th pick felt generous for Johnson on draft night, as his low ceiling as a specialist meant he would need to provide immediate impact to justify the selection. Hitting 91 threes at a 39.7 percent clip in 49 games feels like it qualifies.


I said it at the time and I'll say it again, I'm glad JJ drafted Cam. I just don't like how he did it.

The problem with calling him a reach is that it presumes all the prognosticator drafts actually reflect the draft value of the player. It also assumes that teams somehow follow a roughly uniform player valuationz. Neither is true. When you are an NBA team drafting you have to do the work yourself and trust your own draft board regardless of what draft gurus and fans think. No GM gets it exactly right. It you can build a truly great team being mostly right. James Jones did that and it’s pretty gutsy for a rookie GM.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

The problem with calling him a reach is that it presumes all the prognosticator drafts actually reflect the draft value of the player. It also assumes that teams somehow follow a roughly uniform player valuationz. Neither is true. When you are an NBA team drafting you have to do the work yourself and trust your own draft board regardless of what draft gurus and fans think. No GM gets it exactly right. It you can build a truly great team being mostly right. James Jones did that and it’s pretty gutsy for a rookie GM.

This and I would also point out that we have no idea how early the teams behind us would have taken him as well. For all we know he would have been targeted by multiple teams between our two first round picks. All that matters in the end is whether or not the pick works out for your team and so far it is looking pretty good for Cam and the Suns.

 

[Phrazbit]

Now post the same rankings for Brandon Clarke, P.J. Washington and Tyler Herro...

Maybe instead you should post all the times you claimed Cam was too unathletic to move, had a shooting motion so slow he couldn't get a shot off and would likely be out of the league by his 3rd season.

He was unquestionably one of our best players in the bubble, he proved without a doubt that he can contribute in a big way to winning basketball... and you still crap all over him.

 

[Chaplin]

Maybe instead you should post all the times you claimed Cam was too unathletic to move, had a shooting motion so slow he couldn't get a shot off and would likely be out of the league by his 3rd season.

He was unquestionably one of our best players in the bubble, he proved without a doubt that he can contribute in a big way to winning basketball... and you still crap all over him.

Why is this still a thing? The guy is so far up his own... opinion, there is literally no room for him to double back. He has no choice but to just embrace it full force, no matter how wrong he is. He'd rather continue to claim he was right than admit he was wrong.

 

[GoldGloveschmidt]

Now post the same rankings for Brandon Clarke, P.J. Washington and Tyler Herro...

Cam was significantly better than both Washington and Herro in WAR based on 538's stats.

Cam = +1.6 WAR
Herro = +0.6 WAR
Washington = -0.2 WAR

Clarke was a bit better at +2.4 WAR, however he was featured much more prominently on his team from early on in the season.

Cam came on late in the season and I have no doubt would have had a similar or better WAR than Clarke if he started the whole year. Cam was significantly better in the bubble.



Now lets do your track record and predictions, how do they hold up on Cam? We'll wait.