What About Jay Williams Ex Bull

[dreamcastrocks]

What are you talking about? Jay Williams upside?? hehehe Yeah his upside is tremendous considering he hasnt played ball in the last couple years...cant get much more upside than that I guess.

Let me ask the question ONE MORE TIME, so that there can be NO confusion

What other point guards should the Suns look at, that would cost around the veterans minimum?

Please, give us a name, instead of crapping on an idea that many of us think that has merit.

 

[pokerface]

Let me ask the question ONE MORE TIME, so that there can be NO confusion

What other point guards should the Suns look at, that would cost around the veterans minimum?

Please, give us a name, instead of crapping on an idea that many of us think that has merit.

I havn't answered that because I'n not scouting the whole NBA and the draft nor am I in the inside loop as far as what money players want. Many times a player will take less money to play for a contender. Maybe Breven Knight would consider us again...for the league minimum I dont know. But even guys on our own team seem better than Jay Williams...I definatly would prefer Barbosa (or even House) over Jay because they have speed and can get hot. How much speed can Jay have right now?? He's a big risk!

We have so many options that realistically you cant begin to lay them all out there. The Suns have many tradable assets plus a couple draft picks to work with. Am I supposed to give rundowns on those options? Doesnt seem feesible...too numerous. One draft pick out there was being billed as some poor mans Nash clone...I dont remember his name offhand. I'm sure he can run better than Jay Williams though...

Why dont you tell me why you're so enamored with Jay? He didnt light up the league in his rookie year and then he had a HUGE injury to his leg. What do you know about the new and less improved Jay Williams right now? All you know is he was drafted #2 years ago and he wants back in the NBA. Besides that what do you know? Why does he deserve the benefit of the doubt?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I havn't answered that because I'n not scouting the whole NBA and the draft nor am I in the inside loop as far as what money players want. Many times a player will take less money to play for a contender. Maybe Breven Knight would consider us again...for the league minimum I dont know. But even guys on our own team seem better than Jay Williams...I definatly would prefer Barbosa (or even House) over Jay because they have speed and can get hot. How much speed can Jay have right now?? He's a big risk!

We have so many options that realistically you cant begin to lay them all out there. The Suns have many tradable assets plus a couple draft picks to work with. Am I supposed to give rundowns on those options? Doesnt seem feesible...too numerous. One draft pick out there was being billed as some poor mans Nash clone...I dont remember his name offhand. I'm sure he can run better than Jay Williams though...


Why dont you tell me why you're so enamored with Jay? He didnt light up the league in his rookie year and then he had a HUGE injury to his leg. What do you know about the new and less improved Jay Williams right now? All you know is he was drafted #2 years ago and he wants back in the NBA. Besides that what do you know? Why does he deserve the benefit of the doubt?

When did I say that I was enamored with Jay Williams?.............Thats right, I didn't. I am just opposed to your extreme position that he is as worthless as a bag of chips.

We may just have to agree on disagreeing. Bringing just about ANYONE in for a minimum contract holds little to no risk. Coupled with the fact that the Suns will have to find at least a couple minimum players just to fill out their roster, and it makes it even less of a risk. We have tried Barbosa for at least 2 and a half years at the point, and eventhough he is making great strides, he is not a PG. I will forget that you mentioned House as a PG, he is a SG in a body that is smaller than the average PG. His passing is well below average as well, something that is CRITICAL in this offense.

You said that we have many options, yet you have not come up with any of them. I think that our options are pretty slim, as far as backup PG's go. Even Brevin Knight makes 4 Million a year, and that is enough to put us over the luxury tax.

You don't like Jay Williams, I get it. I asked you to answer a question about alternatives, and you couldn't. No use going around and around if you cannot answer the question.

 

[pokerface]

Dude we may trade up in the draft for all you know....or trade with another team. You just ASSUME that there is only one way to fill out our roster when in reality there are multiple ways.

Williams is a risk (money aside) when there are probably players standing in line wanting to play for the Suns. The NBA saw how close we were to making it to the finals...and that was with a heavily injured team. Since you're fond of bringing up Tim Thomas look how we got him for virtually nothing. Now who would you rather have...TT or Jay. There can be more situations like that on our horizon if we dont give away roster spots easily. Dont forget we still have part of a Trade Exception to use...something like 3 mill left on it. Thats what I'm talking about...we have option after option after option. I say consider Jay Williiams only if everything else fails as a last resort. He shouldnt be our first choice but our last. You say I'm dodgiing questions but you've yet to tell me why Jay should even be considered when we have so much else working in our favor. You've yet to tell me what you've even seen out of Jay...You've yet to say how in heck he can even keep up with our Suns. You remember we're a RUNNING team right? You think it would be fair for Jay or the Suns to bring him in one of the fastest teams in the NBA? That doesnt seem prudent bub.

 

[asudevil83]

i dont think Jay Williams will be in the NBA at all this year. from what i've heard, his leg isnt up to par.

remember, this guy almost had his leg amputated after his accident. you dont come back from something like that even close to 100%. after an injury like that i really dont see anyone even thinking about him unless he's looking amazing.

 

[reader]

http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060618/SPORTS/606180461

Jay Williams looks for NBA return with Nets
Posted by the Asbury Park Press on 06/18/06

BY BOB CONSIDINE
STAFF WRITER

EAST RUTHERFORD — Jay Williams had a lot of time to think about the happier moments in a career put on hold.

One of them was Nov. 9, 2002, when he recorded his first NBA triple-double against the Nets and one of his idols, Jason Kidd. With his 26 points, 14 rebounds and 13 assists in a 100-93 win for the Chicago Bulls, he justified his selection as the No. 2 pick in the 2002 Draft.

Williams, the former St. Joseph's of Metuchen High School star and two-time All-American who led Duke to a national championship, is trying to resurrect his career with the team he once torched.

Williams, 24, worked out with New Jersey on Saturday, another stop on a make-or-break tour to prove that he is NBA-ready almost three years after a serious motorcycle accident nearly took his life.

If the Nets take a chance on the home-state product, Williams, who hails from Plainfield, is already asking for No. 2.

"My number's always been 22," Williams said. "From the day I got hurt, I told my mother I was going to change it to No. 2, so every time somebody calls my name and number, it reminds me that this is my second chance."
Tuesday marks the third anniversary of the day Williams' life changed forever. He was on the way to dinner on the north side of Chicago, riding a new Yamaha R6 he bought the week before — even though it was a violation of the standard NBA contract.

After losing control of the big bike, Williams slammed into a light pole. His body ejected 10 feet from the point of impact. The damage was a fractured pelvis, torn knee ligaments and damaged nerves in his left leg.

Playing basketball again was not the immediate issue at hand as he underwent a series of operations at Illinois Masonic Hospital and the Duke University Medical Center.

Walking was.

"When I got hurt, all I thought about was running with my kids one day and being able to have a family," he said. "I'm blessed to be here to play basketball. It's kind of gravy. This is extra."

Williams wound up immobilized for eight weeks. He stayed on crutches for six months. He didn't run until the winter of 2005.

But early in his recovery, Williams received a letter from All-Star point guard Steve Nash. The gist was this: "If anyone can come back from this, you can."

The note served as motivation on two levels. Obviously, it was a thumbs-up from one of the NBA's top players. But moreso, Williams actually had the smarts to mold his game after Nash's in reworking his approach to basketball.

In other words, Williams isn't going to be driving with reckless abandon as he would before his accident. He's simply added some finesse-type floaters to his game, the product of not being able to do much besides shooting for so long. And he's determined to dictate tempo and get assists.

Williams, who was bought out by the Bulls after his accident, has worked out for New Jersey, Philadelphia, Miami, Toronto and Milwaukee. He still has to visit Boston, Memphis and Phoenix. So it is likely some team will take a chance on him for the 2006-07 season.

The biggest question mark about Williams is his lateral movement.

 

[BIGTONY]

Aweome find Reader.If i were the Suns I would take a chance.It would be a good Suns story.I think the Suns could work him in slowly at a good pace.It can work out..

 

[pokerface]

Aweome find Reader.If i were the Suns I would take a chance.It would be a good Suns story.I think the Suns could work him in slowly at a good pace.It can work out..

Maybe you need to reread this thread some more....

 

[Errntknght]

pokerface, "Maybe you need to reread this thread some more...."

What makes you think he didn't? Besides why should he do that... there's no hard information on this thread about Jay's current status. You've beat it to death that you think he cannot recover enough from the motorcycle accident to be of interest to the Suns, but it is still just your opinion and absolutely nothing more. Heck, I suspect you aren't even a medical doctor who specializes in athletes recovering from serious injury. If you were and you'd examined Jay Williams yourself recently, you'd probably convince someone but as it is, you are just one voice in the crowd - a most persistent voice, to be sure. I'm not the least bit surprised no one has been convinced by ever more shrill reptitions of facts we all know - strange though that may seem.

 

[pokerface]

pokerface, "Maybe you need to reread this thread some more...."

What makes you think he didn't? Besides why should he do that... there's no hard information on this thread about Jay's current status. You've beat it to death that you think he cannot recover enough from the motorcycle accident to be of interest to the Suns, but it is still just your opinion and absolutely nothing more. Heck, I suspect you aren't even a medical doctor who specializes in athletes recovering from serious injury. If you were and you'd examined Jay Williams yourself recently, you'd probably convince someone but as it is, you are just one voice in the crowd - a most persistent voice, to be sure. I'm not the least bit surprised no one has been convinced by ever more shrill reptitions of facts we all know - strange though that may seem.

Why does everyone have to be a medical doctor to have a valid opinion?? And if thats your argument show me a doctor that said Jay Williiams can run and perform like other NBA players. Where is your medical degree to prove that Williams is fit to run with the Suns? Where is your proof of anything? I dont have to prove he cant perform....thats a given considering his injury and last two years of not playing. As I said before the burden of proof isnt on me but on Williams supporters.

I dont need to be a doctor to know that Williams cant keep up with our style of game...its called common sense. Its the same common sense that says we dont try to bring Kevin Johnson out of retirement to play PG just because he used to be an allstar. I dont have to examine KJ...its just something you know.

Why bring in Williams when we could draft a PG? Let Jay do his feel good comeback story on a team with nothing to lose..not on our contender Suns!

 

[asudevil83]

Why does everyone have to be a medical doctor to have a valid opinion?? And if thats your argument show me a doctor that said Jay Williiams can run and perform like other NBA players. Where is your medical degree to prove that Williams is fit to run with the Suns? Where is your proof of anything? I dont have to prove he cant perform....thats a given considering his injury and last two years of not playing. As I said before the burden of proof isnt on me but on Williams supporters.

I dont need to be a doctor to know that Williams cant keep up with our style of game...its called common sense. Its the same common sense that says we dont try to bring Kevin Johnson out of retirement to play PG just because he used to be an allstar. I dont have to examine KJ...its just something you know.

Why bring in Williams when we could draft a PG? Let Jay do his feel good comeback story on a team with nothing to lose..not on our contender Suns!

i'm just trying to figure out why the hell you are so AGAINST bringing the guy in. for the vet min, it wouldnt hurt.

he sure as hell would be more effective than a guy like Burke or Shirley or Dijon or Skita.

there would be absolutely no risk in bringing him, its not like any other vet min player is likely to find a spot in the rotation anyways.

if he doesnt pan out boo-hoo, sit on the bench in the 12-14 slot. if he DOES pan out then its a bonus. the rewards of him signing are worth the risks ten-fold.

and the part that i bolded there, where does common sense come into play. have you actually seen the guy play, run, or even walk for that matter? you can have your doubts about the guy, but dont go writing him off just because in your mind (even with no proof) its impossible for him to run up and down the court.

 

[pokerface]

i'm just trying to figure out why the hell you are so AGAINST bringing the guy in. for the vet min, it wouldnt hurt.

he sure as hell would be more effective than a guy like Burke or Shirley or Dijon or Skita.

there would be absolutely no risk in bringing him, its not like any other vet min player is likely to find a spot in the rotation anyways.

if he doesnt pan out boo-hoo, sit on the bench in the 12-14 slot. if he DOES pan out then its a bonus. the rewards of him signing are worth the risks ten-fold.

and the part that i bolded there, where does common sense come into play. have you actually seen the guy play, run, or even walk for that matter? you can have your doubts about the guy, but dont go writing him off just because in your mind (even with no proof) its impossible for him to run up and down the court.

My question is why even consider Williams when we have two draft picks and can pick up a pg....a pg with two healthy legs I might add. Why waste a roster spot on Williams? Money has nothing to do with it...we're looking to win a title and there are players clamoring to be on the Suns. What makes you guys think we're desperate enough to take on Jay? We have so many options via draft picks and trades! I bet the Suns are soooo not interested in Willaims. They dont want anyone slowing down their running game....

Plus I ask again..what PROOF do you guys have that he can even play much less keep up with our fastbreaking Suns. Why do I have to prove he cant play? Has he played somewhere that I'm not aware of?

 

[asudevil83]

My question is why even consider Williams when we have two draft picks and can pick up a pg....a pg with two healthy legs I might add. Why waste a roster spot on Williams? Money has nothing to do with it...we're looking to win a title and there are players clamoring to be on the Suns. What makes you guys think we're desperate enough to take on Jay? We have so many options via draft picks and trades! I bet the Suns are soooo not interested in Willaims. They dont want anyone slowing down their running game....

Plus I ask again..what PROOF do you guys have that he can even play much less keep up with our fastbreaking Suns. Why do I have to prove he cant play? Has he played somewhere that I'm not aware of?

my point is that players like Burke and Skita and Grant and Shirley are the ones who get the vet min contracts. players like House get the vet min contracts because nobody else would spend more than than for him.

so if we are having guys like Burke and Skita on the bench, why not add someone who wants to prove that they can still play, and actually has a grain of skill in them?

and i dont think you quite understand what some of us are TRYING to explain to you. YOU have already written Williams off. you havent seen him play and you arent even willing to give him a shot....and this is based on nothing. I on the otherhand would like to see him play before i write him off.

nowhere did i say that Williams IS going to make a contribution to this team, but filling a roster spot that would normally be reserved for a guy like Burke is worth it just to see if he can play. i dont have to prove ANYTHING.....you are the one who must prove that he CANT play, since you said definately that he CANT. i mearly want to give him a chance at a minimal gamble.

what makes you think that adding Williams for a minimum contract would change anything draftwise. did adding Burke or House change what we drafted?

 

[pokerface]

My proof that Jay cant play is he hasnt played for two years and had a devastating injury. I dont see any video clips of him playing anywhere...have you? Lets see him in summer league...lets see him do SOMETHING. You guys know nothing about him yet you want to throw a roster spot at him...hmmm.

I dont care that we have Skita, Burke, House or whoever...that doesnt make us an automatic dumping ground. Besides that was last season...this season is yet to begin. We still havnt used our draft picks or done any trades or tested free agency. No need to jump the gun and promise anything to a busted up player like Williams...I dont see teams standing in line for his services.

 

[Russ Smith]

My proof that Jay cant play is he hasnt played for two years and had a devastating injury. I dont see any video clips of him playing anywhere...have you? Lets see him in summer league...lets see him do SOMETHING. You guys know nothing about him yet you want to throw a roster spot at him...hmmm.

I dont care that we have Skita, Burke, House or whoever...that doesnt make us an automatic dumping ground. Besides that was last season...this season is yet to begin. We still havnt used our draft picks or done any trades or tested free agency. No need to jump the gun and promise anything to a busted up player like Williams...I dont see teams standing in line for his services.

I didn't see any tapes of Alonzo Mourning playing for quite awhile either and yet there he was blocking shots in the NBA finals on my tv screen just the other night.

Obviously Williams may not ever be 100%, but if he'd really take the veteran minimum, and he's been working out with Grover and is able to pass a physical, I don't see why it would be a bad idea to give him a shot instead of having the proverbial big white stiff sitting on the bench getting the minimum?

 

[pokerface]

I didn't see any tapes of Alonzo Mourning playing for quite awhile either and yet there he was blocking shots in the NBA finals on my tv screen just the other night.

Obviously Williams may not ever be 100%, but if he'd really take the veteran minimum, and he's been working out with Grover and is able to pass a physical, I don't see why it would be a bad idea to give him a shot instead of having the proverbial big white stiff sitting on the bench getting the minimum?

Why bring up Zo?? Thats comparing apples to oranges....


Why do guys keep saying the same thing? You know nothing about Williams...NOTHING. Why does Williams get the benefit of the doubt? You say it doesnt hurt to give Williams a shot....I say it doesnt hurt to give our draft picks a shot since we have picks to use. I say it doesnt hurt to let the Suns wheel and deal FIRST before we even consider Willaims.

 

[jbeecham]

I agree that I want to see Williams play before we would give him a guaranteed contract (like the Suns would give a guaranteed contract to someone they haven't seen play.....lol). We could invite him to be on our summer league team, but there's always a chance he plays really well and someone is willing to pay him more than we are. If Jay's healthy and close to the player he was when he came into the league, then he could be great on the Suns, but if he was at that level then another team would've given him a contract already.

 

[pokerface]

I agree that I want to see Williams play before we would give him a guaranteed contract (like the Suns would give a guaranteed contract to someone they haven't seen play.....lol). We could invite him to be on our summer league team, but there's always a chance he plays really well and someone is willing to pay him more than we are. If Jay's healthy and close to the player he was when he came into the league, then he could be great on the Suns, but if he was at that level then another team would've given him a contract already.

Williams is already making the rounds...didnt he workout for Toronto?

 

[Errntknght]

I dont need to be a doctor to know that Williams cant keep up with our style of game...its called common sense.

I have a lot more faith in the Suns management common sense after they've talked to his docs, had theirs examine him and watched him work out than I have in yours, based on what you say you know - which is nothing, like the rest of us.

As far as waiting until all other avenues have been explored - Jay is making his attempt to find a spot now so one takes the opportunity when it presents itself. We may well have drafted by the time they look him over but I think it would be better if they saw him first. The odds are fairly high the Suns won't be intent on getting him after seeing him which would be another reason to draft a PG - and if they happen to be very impressed - and he says this is where he'd like to be - it would be a reason to avoid drafting a PG. Actually, this seems like more of a common sense approach than what you advocate.

 

[pokerface]

The odds are fairly high the Suns won't be intent on getting him after seeing him which would be another reason to draft a PG.

Yep. That I agree with.

 

[pokerface]

Personally I think Jay would be better off on a motorcycle racing career instead of dragging down the Suns

 

[pokerface]

So uhh...Why hasnt Williams signed with anyone yet? Oh yeah...because he's WASHED UP....oops!

 

[nathan]

So uhh...Why hasnt Williams signed with anyone yet? Oh yeah...because he's WASHED UP....oops!

He's still making the rounds. He has invitations to join more than one summer league team. He's probably trying to get the best deal he can. I don't think he's done, but based on what I've read I don't think he'll start another game in the NBA. He's lost more than a step.