What are the 3 most important things needed to be done this offseason?

[john h]

1) Qb - trade up for Rodgers or someone or break the bank on Brees
2) RB Lamont Jordan, James or Alexander in that order of preferance
3) Draft CB with #1 or 2 depending on if QB is drafted or FA

The rest I am happy with. Just make sure to get some servicable guys to replace Clement and Shelton.

I strongly think Brees will remain a Charger with the possibility of trading Rivers. They are trying to figure out how to keep them both.

 

[john h]

Why would we spend a Top Ten pick on a CB, even one as dominant in the college game as Antrel Rolle? Did anyone watch the NFL this year? Rule changes made even once spectacular physical CBs like Champ Bailey and Chris McAlister look pedestrian. I'd rather draft a playmaking safety who knows how to tackle to go with Wilson. If we are dead set on drafting a CB, I'd wait for the second/third round and draft a speed CB like Perkins who could also fill in on special teams.

Good point. That rule change sure changed the face of football in a big way and may change the way teams draft DB's. Since there is a lot less bumping allowed teams may go more towards speed than being physical. Will be interesting to see what kind of DB's are drafted this year. It may be that a 6' 185 lb speed DB who can jump is a lot more effective than a 210 lb physical back who can knock you on your butt or bump you off your route.

 

[john h]

I believe you are DEAD wrong here. Look at 6 of the eight divison winners and what will you find - the BEST running backs in football(Shaun Alexander, Corey Dillon, Ahman Green, Edge, LaDanian Tomlinson, Jerome Bettis) The other two divison winners have McNabb and Vick - also running QBs. A tandem of slow, slower and slowest will NOT get anything done next year but mediocrity. This team is closer to being good than settling for mediocrity. We have the WRs, we have an okay O-line and a big question at QB, but there will NEVER be an offseason where the options at RB will be as plentiful as there are this year. Take care of that spot and all we have to worry about on O is QB.

I think we would have to be INSANE to go into next season with an average at best NFL RB in Marcel Shipp coming off a season ending injury, a below average RB in Hambrick and a WAYYYY past his prime Emmitt Smith. Emmitt's been a warrior for us this year, but think about how slow as sin he is this year and then fast forward 9 months - that ain't pretty.

Take care of the runninbg back situation and even I believe that somehow, even with Josh at QB playing as he did this season, we could sneak into the playoffs somehow.

As far as Rolle is concerned - the whole urle changes on DBs makes me very dubsious of picking a CB that high where the bust quotient is just as high there as anywhere else. Although he is a Miami guy and I love Miami players making the leap from college to the pros.

Right on. We cannot go into next season with the current crop of running backs on this team. They are at best backup quality.

 

[john h]

Leinart and Rodgers are both higher rated than Rivers was at this point last year.

Blesto had both guys rated ahead of him (they give a # figure last year they had Ben rated #1).

No idea if either is coming out, Rodgers should stay with tedford re-upping but you never know.

Leinhart suffered a serious shoulder injury in college. I wonder if that will effect his draft position. Shoulder injuries tend to reoccur and being a QB I suspect this could drop him down further than many suspect.

 

[john h]

My
3b. QB Competition--Kitna, Johnson, Bledsoe, Brooks...*gasp*or Rogers or Leinhart if they're available to us. Bring someone in to compete for the starting job.
This really makes the most sense. We need a veteran that can get the job done if Josh gets hurt....There are only a few with Joshs mobility and really not any Fa that one would consider a gamer or a cerebrel Qb. I guess the closest would be Kitna...but he won't beat Josh out and wouldn't be an upgrade. Competition is good as long as the guys that are brought in can actually compete. Navarre should be givin every chance to backup next season.

When you are near last in passing offense it is not going to be difficult to be beat out in a QB competition.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Tell us how you feel about each post in this thread John. Dont stop now

 

[Rats]

When you are near last in passing offense it is not going to be difficult to be beat out in a QB competition.

This would be true...however we are not "near last in passing offense". Here again your clouded opinion of our Qb because he is not the next John Elway won't allow you to see that Josh has improved greatly over the last part of this season. In watching the games he is reading defenses and looking off safties. This is a new development since earlier in the season. I realize you dislike Green and the Qb of our team but you really need be objective when things are clearly changing for the better with regards to some positions and coaching.

 

[john h]

This would be true...however we are not "near last in passing offense". Here again your clouded opinion of our Qb because he is not the next John Elway won't allow you to see that Josh has improved greatly over the last part of this season. In watching the games he is reading defenses and looking off safties. This is a new development since earlier in the season. I realize you dislike Green and the Qb of our team but you really need be objective when things are clearly changing for the better with regards to some positions and coaching.

I do not like Green's management style but since he has been here only one year his success is very much a question to be answered in the next two years. I have watched every game Josh has played and I honestly do not think he is our answer at QB. This of course is just my opinion and I am by no means an expert. Many think Josh is the answer so it is just a difference of opinion. I never thought Jake was the answer when he first appeared on the scene. I thought he was way over hyped from the get go and because he had a few late comebacks we signed him to a long term big time contract for all the wrong reasons. I think that Green will definitely make a change at QB. He is not a patient man and will not chance another repeat season with Josh at QB. I fully expect him to sign or trade for the best QB he can get and I fully expect whoever it is will end up as the starter. On the outside chance he cannot acquire an experienced QB I suspect he will open up competition at QB in spring training to include Navarre. I do not think he will make the repeat mistake of announcing the Josh is our man before spring training even begins.

 

[CaptTurbo]

and looking off safties. .

ohhhhhhh he learned to look a safety off on his 15th NFL start.

Give him the Einstein award. I have a 15 year old cousin that can do that at QB at his high school.

We better sign him I guess he is a phenom compared to josh LOL

Wonder if any other Qb in the NFL is still learning that.

You seem to forget that he has been on the bench for 3 years. What the heck was he learning? How to stay hydrated?

 

[Rats]

I do not like Green's management style but since he has been here only one year his success is very much a question to be answered in the next two years. I have watched every game Josh has played and I honestly do not think he is our answer at QB. This of course is just my opinion and I am by no means an expert. Many think Josh is the answer so it is just a difference of opinion. I never thought Jake was the answer when he first appeared on the scene. I thought he was way over hyped from the get go and because he had a few late comebacks we signed him to a long term big time contract for all the wrong reasons. I think that Green will definitely make a change at QB. He is not a patient man and will not chance another repeat season with Josh at QB. I fully expect him to sign or trade for the best QB he can get and I fully expect whoever it is will end up as the starter. On the outside chance he cannot acquire an experienced QB I suspect he will open up competition at QB in spring training to include Navarre. I do not think he will make the repeat mistake of announcing the Josh is our man before spring training even begins.

Then why bring Josh back at all....he in your opinion would be best served backing up Navarre and another Vet Fa. A tender for one year will eat up cap space that could be givin to a low level QB like the one on our practice squad. Wouldn't it be better to go this route since Josh isn't going to see the field IYO? No...if Josh is tendered( and I would expect him to be) he will go in as the starter with competition from a couple of guys ( Navarre included) and the best guy will come out of this competition. Coach Green already made a mistake with Josh by benching him, is it reasonable to assume that he won't make that mistake again? Josh improved over this season. There are many more factors that you ignore with your assessment of " I have seen every game Josh has played...blah, blah,blah....you obviously have missed his progress this season and the terrible running game and Oline play....so please just type GET RID OF JOSH...with every response.....it is obvious that you can't see the forest for the trees.....

 

[Rats]

ohhhhhhh he learned to look a safety off on his 15th NFL start.

Give him the Einstein award. I have a 15 year old cousin that can do that at QB at his high school.

We better sign him I guess he is a phenom compared to josh LOL

Wonder if any other Qb in the NFL is still learning that.

You seem to forget that he has been on the bench for 3 years. What the heck was he learning? How to stay hydrated?

Give it a rest...or better yet give me the name of one available QB with as much upside as Josh has and will come to Arizona and you might prove something. There are none. With his youth,speed, toughness, and now with his field vision and slowing down of plays in his head, he will become a more complete QB....you like to jump the fact that he doesn't take care of the ball and can't feel the blindside rush....well most of his fumbles came earlier than later...and although they were fumbles the majority were not fumbles lost...that has to be the stupidest stat in football....it only matters if you lose possession...I guess we should just hand the Qb position over to some has been never was that is old slow and brittle so we can watch a 7th round draft pick throw pick after pick for another 2 years.....you are ridiculas.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I';d like to know just how much Josh improved over the course of the year. His pocket presence hasn't improved. He still puts the ball on the ground a ton and in 2 of the three games since he's been back - we still did next to nothing on Offense in the first half - 3 points and 7 points.

What we have seen is our D give up more points, which has forced Josh to put the ball in the air more, versus earlier in the season where the D was just shutting people down and he played more conservatively.

Has he progressed some - sure, he's throwing downfield more and his recievers are making great plays for him - but you can't tell me he's ahead of learning now as has mantained in some areas(really slow starts - only to come on once down 17 or 25/pocket presence/holding on to the football) and he has regressed in other areas - he's also turned the ball over 4 times in the last three games, which he wasn't doing at the beginning of the season.

He is what he is right now - a mixed bag of tricks. Should he get tendered the high tender - absolutely. Kid's got physical upside that is to be sure - but should he be handed the starter's position - absolutely not and if there is some way to improve the position(who knows what that might be) you do it because you always look to improve your football team.

As to fumbles versus fumbles lost being a stupid stat - I don't know what to say to that. They shouldn't count because we're lucky enough to have a someone fight for the ball and win down in a pile? They're still momentum killers and set drives back further than they should be. Hell - I remember EVERYONE here wanting to tear King's head off for his four fumbles - even though one was lost. Don't remember anyone saying he shouldbe let off the hook for those.

 

[Pariah]

Give it a rest...or better yet give me the name of one available QB with as much upside as Josh ....

At what point can we stop talking about Josh's upside? Seriously, when is it that a QB realizes his potential? When is he defined as what he is as opposed to what he might be?

 

[JeffGollin]

The book is not closed on Josh McCown. (No matter what you guys say)
I agree. But I think he represents a sizable element of risk.

We don't know how much better he'll get; nor how long it will take for Josh to get there (if at all).

I think he deserves the chance (and, even more important, that the team have a solid opportunity to recoup its investment in time, faith and money). But I'd like us to bring someone in who's already proved he can win consistently, and then let the 2 QB's compete for the starting position. (Hells bells - during the course of a long, tough season; we're likely to need 2 quality QB's anyway).

 

[Rats]

At what point can we stop talking about Josh's upside? Seriously, when is it that a QB realizes his potential? When is he defined as what he is as opposed to what he might be?

Seriously, when a Qb is in his first year starting you have to talk about what he can bring to the table in future years. The notion that Josh regressed in some areas...is well...misplaced to say the least...he has had to learn to play at this level of competition and he is doing that. You cannot expect a guy that has not played at this level to step right in and make things go. Especially with the talent that was on this team from Macs years here. I am willing to cut slack to Josh because I can see his talent shining with a decent team around him. He is different than Plummer in that he doesn't take a chance that he can make every play and lets others try. When he actually gets a running back it would not suprise me to see him hand the ball off 12 times in a row...like Ben did on Saturday...he doesn't think that he has to do everything...that is a good thing for a Qb. But when we are down he has the ability to get us back in the game. We were in most every game he played in this season. With better play calling, better running, better blocking we would have won more of them. You have to look at a kid and say he will turn out good if he makes strides with a bad team. He has done that.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Give it a rest...or better yet give me the name of one available QB with as much upside as Josh has and will come to Arizona and you might prove something. There are none. With his youth,speed, toughness, and now with his field vision and slowing down of plays in his head, he will become a more complete QB....you like to jump the fact that he doesn't take care of the ball and can't feel the blindside rush....well most of his fumbles came earlier than later...and although they were fumbles the majority were not fumbles lost...that has to be the stupidest stat in football....it only matters if you lose possession...I guess we should just hand the Qb position over to some has been never was that is old slow and brittle so we can watch a 7th round draft pick throw pick after pick for another 2 years.....you are ridiculas.

wow man I am not joking there is absolutely no help for you. Lets look at the drivel here.

Give it a rest...or better yet give me the name of one available QB with as much upside as Josh.

I'll give you one with more. Navarre

you like to jump the fact that he doesn't feel the blindside rush.

Oh really thats news to me. i think he is ok in this category. Color you wrong? again? getting old.

it only matters if you lose possession...

What a joke. So if he fumbles and one of our olineman get it losing 8 yards thats nothing lets move on and forget about it.? What a joke.

I guess we should just hand the Qb position over to some has been never was that is old slow and brittle so we can watch a 7th round draft pick throw pick after pick for another 2 years.

Let me get this right. Navarre is no good because he is a 7th round pick? Genius! Or he is old, slow and brittle? Where do you get this info? What is he 22? He throws pick after pick?

Riddle me this how can you yell and critisize people for judging Mcclown after 6-7 games but you feel free to judge Navarre after 1 ONE game?????????????????????????????????????????

 

[gamebird98]

Resign Emmitt Smith......S. King, and bring back Tommy Knight.

 

[Rats]

wow

Riddle me this how can you yell and critisize people for judging Mcclown after 6-7 games but you feel free to judge Navarre after 1 ONE game?????????????????????????????????????????

The old, slow and brittle was in response to bringing in some older and some how wiser veteran..I wasn't speaking about Navarres mobility(or lack there of). Navarre was the part about a 7th round pick....so sue me..if it got lost in translation..

 

[Rats]

Resign Emmitt Smith......S. King, and bring back Tommy Knight.

Ahhh...what the hell....give Plummer another go to....I'm sure he will fit the definition of wiley old veteran that some here want....

 

[CaptTurbo]

The old, slow and brittle was in response to bringing in some older and some how wiser veteran..I wasn't speaking about Navarres mobility(or lack there of). Navarre was the part about a 7th round pick....so sue me..if it got lost in translation..

So how do you judge Navarre after 1 game again? When it isnt fair to judge mccown agter 6 or so?

 

[Rats]

So how do you judge Navarre after 1 game again? When it isnt fair to judge mccown agter 6 or so?

Navarre is at least two years away from being a meaningful Qb...Josh can be one next year....do you want to wait for Navarre? ...I don't. He will probably be a decent Qb down the road...and I would be happy about that. He won't however be ready next year or until late in the following season so I am not going to evaluate him...it wouldn't be fair to him. I just don't want to give him next season as his learning curve when Josh is already around his curve.

 

[Russ Smith]

Give it a rest...or better yet give me the name of one available QB with as much upside as Josh has and will come to Arizona and you might prove something. There are none. With his youth,speed, toughness, and now with his field vision and slowing down of plays in his head, he will become a more complete QB....you like to jump the fact that he doesn't take care of the ball and can't feel the blindside rush....well most of his fumbles came earlier than later...and although they were fumbles the majority were not fumbles lost...that has to be the stupidest stat in football....it only matters if you lose possession...I guess we should just hand the Qb position over to some has been never was that is old slow and brittle so we can watch a 7th round draft pick throw pick after pick for another 2 years.....you are ridiculas.

Rats, I agree with much of what you say but I don't get the last sentence. i assume you mean Navarre when you mention a 7th rounder throwing picks?

You seem to be saying that Josh needs more time to develop, yet in the next breath you're writing off Navarre who played in precisely one game, and got injured during the game which MAY have led to some of his picks.

Personally I'm not that high on Navarre, some day a solid backup I suspect, but I just don't get the distinction of wanting to give a 3rd year player with 15 starts more time, and being unwilling to give a rookie with 1 start more time?

Is it because Navarre can't run?

 

[Russ Smith]

Navarre is at least two years away from being a meaningful Qb...Josh can be one next year....do you want to wait for Navarre? ...I don't. He will probably be a decent Qb down the road...and I would be happy about that. He won't however be ready next year or until late in the following season so I am not going to evaluate him...it wouldn't be fair to him. I just don't want to give him next season as his learning curve when Josh is already around his curve.

Whoops, should read whole thread before responding, this answer the question I just asked.

How do you determine that he needs 2 more years while scoffing at others who try to predict something about Josh?

 

[Evil Ash]

At what point can we stop talking about Josh's upside? Seriously, when is it that a QB realizes his potential? When is he defined as what he is as opposed to what he might be?

Very good questions where there are no easy answers. There is no simplistic formula that will tell when a player will learn and suddenly "get it". Some seem to do well immediately (i.e. Big Ben, Mike Vick, Peyton Manning) and then there are others that it took them several years in the league before they figured it out (i.e. Steve Young, Jake Delhomme, Rich Gannon). Just like everything else in life, people learn different things and different speeds

 

[Redsz]

Ash, sir, I give you a gold star! Can't agree more.