What are your feelings about Henry?

[PDXChris]

I am not too excited it the trade goes through, he may get 1000 yards, but is he going to be a diffrence maker, I am not sure about that.

 

[black]

Good poll. I've been waiting for this trade to happen for awhile. Henry is a good choice and I don't want Thomas Jones to happen all over again. We have a chance to land D.J and/or a CB. The first 2 picks are crucial for us this year.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

The absolute most important thing is to get the OL playing within some semblance of a scheme. I have been a Cards fan since they came to the valley in 1988 and I have never, I repeat, NEVER seen the OL play cohesively or with intelligence and structure. For 17 years, opposing D's have been playing in our backfield. That is the solitary issue, IMO, that has held this ball club back year after year. There have been times when we have had a good D, but they always fizzle at the end because of consistent 3 and outs and turnovers from the O caused by disruption in the backfield. Until they get the OL to play as a unit and implement something that resembles a plan of attack, the Cards, no matter who they plug in the HB spot, will continue as they have for 17 years....

Let me be clear, it's not about "name" players on the OL, it's about creating a unified blocking front for the O with who we have. If our OL actually had blocking schemes, any properly built athlete could handle the job....

As it is, though, I'd be happy as hell to see Henry in our backfield....

 

[Codeofhammurabi]

Let's get him. I think it sets up the rest of our moves. If we get Henry we can really fill our needs better in the draft. Take the Corner #1, and fill the rest of the holes in the next few rounds. Without Henry, we have to draft a corner and a Running back and expect a 2nd rounder or worse to be a major contributor.

The same thing could be done if we re-sign Hill, or could trade for Surtain.

I like that fact that a Henry trade would be pro-active and not reactive.

GO CARDS!!!

 

[daytripper]

IMHO nothing is going to happen until draft day. Only at that point will coach Green tip his hand, and that will depend upon his evaluation and whom is left on the board. IF a RB is the top rated player then he takes him, if not then the trade happens. We have nothing to lose by holding on to Shelton. His experience is invaluable and if he stays he will be starting somewhere on the line before the end of the season.

Hasta Luego

GBR 40

 

[doctor]

seeds of hate .... that is one of the best posts i have seen on this board since i have been reading it...... couple of yrs or so...... people have to realize games are won and lost in the trenches and yes you said what i have been preaching for the last 17yrs as well. our o line is the problem and you can insert who you want in the back field until it plays cohesively we will continue to be inconsistant....... i am so sick and tired of seeing teams playing in our backfield... nothing wrong with brown , benson williams or henry. the have to have blocking...... look no further than garrison hearst a supposed bust..... people said also it was his attitude ...... when he got to sf he was a locker room leader....... the cards have nobody to blame but themselves and their coaches for not having a better line and more emphasis on blocking and attitude.

 

[cardsunsfan]

seeds of hate .... that is one of the best posts i have seen on this board since i have been reading it...... couple of yrs or so...... people have to realize games are won and lost in the trenches and yes you said what i have been preaching for the last 17yrs as well. our o line is the problem and you can insert who you want in the back field until it plays cohesively we will continue to be inconsistant....... i am so sick and tired of seeing teams playing in our backfield... nothing wrong with brown , benson williams or henry. the have to have blocking...... look no further than garrison hearst a supposed bust..... people said also it was his attitude ...... when he got to sf he was a locker room leader....... the cards have nobody to blame but themselves and their coaches for not having a better line and more emphasis on blocking and attitude.

I agree, look at Denver, they seem to be able to plug any rb in there and they do well. I really hope our OL play improves next yr. Last yr I think there were too many switches and too many young players on our OL

 

[BigRedMO]

Why buy a used car when this draft is deep in new cars that dont have the mileage on them? Any draft pick can be a bust. So never draft a RB again because of Jones? The Cards like every other NFL team have a bust at every position. Knight comes to mind for DB. There are no sure things and every position will have busts. Never draft a QB again because of Piszarkiwiecz (sp?)

Here is a draft success story. Ottis Anderson was drafted #1 in 1979. He is the Cardinals leading rusher all time and if I recall the top five single season totals too.

If you believe the arguement of not drafting a certain position because of previous busts then they need to trade all their picks for veterans.

 

[Chainthroer]

I'd just as soon keep Shelton. The RG position is wide open, with Bridges, Reuber and Leckney as possible candidates to fill the position. I'd rather have Shelton at RG or RT. I know I'm blowing into the wind on this one, but with both Ross and Shelton holding up the right side we may be in good shape. Without Shelton, it's a big question mark. Without a good OL, the offense is going to struggle.
Take the best available RB or CB with the first pick.

 

[black]

Why buy a used car when this draft is deep in new cars that dont have the mileage on them? Any draft pick can be a bust. So never draft a RB again because of Jones? The Cards like every other NFL team have a bust at every position. Knight comes to mind for DB. There are no sure things and every position will have busts. Never draft a QB again because of Piszarkiwiecz (sp?)

Here is a draft success story. Ottis Anderson was drafted #1 in 1979. He is the Cardinals leading rusher all time and if I recall the top five single season totals too.

If you believe the arguement of not drafting a certain position because of previous busts then they need to trade all their picks for veterans.

I have to stop reading your posts. They sway my opinion, LOL Have you ever considered running for office?

 

[Jetstream Green]

Why buy a used car?

Because the draft is notorius with 'Lemons' and that used car still has a lot left in the tank in my opinion. Henry would not be a 1,000 yard back but more like a 1,200 yard back and that is better than the 'maybe' the draft might offer. Get Henry and then we can worry about our CB situation and still nothing is stopping the Cards from getting someone like Arrington in the second round.

 

[BigRedMO]

Thank you for the compliment Black. The mention of running for office makes me wonder if it was not a back handed slap,lol Thanks.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Because the draft is notorius with 'Lemons' and that used car still has a lot left in the tank in my opinion. Henry would not be a 1,000 yard back but more like a 1,200 yard back and that is better than the 'maybe' the draft might offer. Get Henry and then we can worry about our CB situation and still nothing is stopping the Cards from getting someone like Arrington in the second round.

I understand that thinking perfectly Jetstream. You and Shane express this point very well, and I agree with both of you.

Henry is a sure thing. Better than Thomas Jones, better than Pittman, better than Shipp (sorry Marcell! prove me wrong).

He would be the best back we've had since Anderson. The 2005 playoffs become a better than 50/50 proposition if add Henry to the backfield.

At the same time, you have to ask the same question I have asked about McCown.

Is Henry good enough to win a superbowl?

The one thing Brown, Anderson or Benson offer, is the potential for a "home run". A difference maker that not only takes you to the next level, but also to the penthouse.

Take it from a sooner fan or go talk to the eagles fans. If you don't win the whole enchilada, you feel as empty at the end (almost) as if you went 6-10.

So, while Henry is the safe play, maybe even the smart play, there is still something intriguing and exciting about giving one of those top three backs a chance.

 

[WildBB]

Because the draft is notorius with 'Lemons' and that used car still has a lot left in the tank in my opinion. Henry would not be a 1,000 yard back but more like a 1,200 yard back and that is better than the 'maybe' the draft might offer. Get Henry and then we can worry about our CB situation and still nothing is stopping the Cards from getting someone like Arrington in the second round.

 

[Solar7]

I understand that thinking perfectly Jetstream. You and Shane express this point very well, and I agree with both of you.

Henry is a sure thing. Better than Thomas Jones, better than Pittman, better than Shipp (sorry Marcell! prove me wrong).

He would be the best back we've had since Anderson. The 2005 playoffs become a better than 50/50 proposition if add Henry to the backfield.

At the same time, you have to ask the same question I have asked about McCown.

Is Henry good enough to win a superbowl?

The one thing Brown, Anderson or Benson offer, is the potential for a "home run". A difference maker that not only takes you to the next level, but also to the penthouse.

Take it from a sooner fan or go talk to the eagles fans. If you don't win the whole enchilada, you feel as empty at the end (almost) as if you went 6-10.

So, while Henry is the safe play, maybe even the smart play, there is still something intriguing and exciting about giving one of those top three backs a chance.

I do agree. Travis Henry might not ever contend for the rushing title, even though I'm a big fan of him. But Brown and Benson (I really like Williams) scare me a lot. While that "penthouse" kind of back could really get us there, I think we already have the "penthouse" recievers. The Eagles got to the Superbowl without a great back, and I think it's possible for us to do that too. A Curtis Enis or Ki-Jana Carter type could come out of the three backs, and we'd be out of luck. A proven commodity can take us to the next level, and I'll take the proven over potential.

 

[overseascardsfan]

I think Henry is just as good as Benson and Williams and with Ronnie Brown not being there at 8. Henry will get a 1000 yards and allow us to be more effective in the passing game providing us w/ offensive balance. He isn't injury prone and his only knock is that he fumbles which can be improved with better focus. Funny thing is some publications say JJ Arrington is in the same mold as Henry.

 

[BigRedMO]

I just dont agree with the logic of accepting ok at RB when it is possible to find a stud in the draft. I dont see the logic in being afraid to use your first pick on a potential difference maker at a key position like RB. First round picks are meant to be the big differnce maker in a team. With that logic goes risk too. If you spend that first on a position that cant make the difference in being a great team, like DB, then in my opinion it is already a wasted pick even if the player turns out good.

 

[Shane]

I just dont agree with the logic of accepting ok at RB when it is possible to find a stud in the draft. I dont see the logic in being afraid to use your first pick on a potential difference maker at a key position like RB. First round picks are meant to be the big differnce maker in a team. With that logic goes risk too. If you spend that first on a position that cant make the difference in being a great team, like DB, then in my opinion it is already a wasted pick even if the player turns out good.

Henry is a stud. A proven stud. A RB that gets 1400 yards and double digit TDs is a stud.

You would rather gamble on a rook who may succeed? When you have the option of getting a proven(still young) pro-bowl caliber RB?

Sorry just dont get it!

 

[Rats]

Try this on for size.....wait the Bills out and offer them a 3rd rounder(the Pats pick) for Henry. Trade LJ for Patrick Surtain...throw in a 4th or even our 3rd to get the deal done. Then Draft BPA ( Johnson) at 8. Take best CB available in the 2nd Jackson......Darren Sproles(Punt Returner) in the 4th.....Jerome Collins TE, ND...in the 5th. This fills needs and gets us another playmaking LB and a proven stud RB. This is what I would like to see happen. Throw Clement in or Pace to get it done.

 

[Russ Smith]

Try this on for size.....wait the Bills out and offer them a 3rd rounder(the Pats pick) for Henry. Trade LJ for Patrick Surtain...throw in a 4th or even our 3rd to get the deal done. Then Draft BPA ( Johnson) at 8. Take best CB available in the 2nd Jackson......Darren Sproles(Punt Returner) in the 4th.....Jerome Collins TE, ND...in the 5th. This fills needs and gets us another playmaking LB and a proven stud RB. This is what I would like to see happen. Throw Clement in or Pace to get it done.

Yes I really don't get why we're not pursuing Surtain unless there's some injury or salary reason not made clear.

Surtain is said to be seeking the following :
The Dolphins are looking for a second- or third-round pick for Surtain, who is believed to be seeking a signing bonus of at least $8 million on a long-term extension. He's entering the final year of a contract that pays him $6.15 million in 2005 and has a cap number of $8.383 million.

Yes that's a lot of money when we're looking at a double digit bonus for the firsr round pick as well, but Surtain is not going to be totally unaffordable. Obviously in trade his 2005 caphit would be 6.15 (bonus stays with Miami) which is big, but you can structure the deal so that comes down. The Cards typically like to do flat deals across the board but with some creativity we could get Surtain in at a lower caphit and free ourselves up to go BPA in the draft.

 

[Skkorpion]

Shelton for Henry straight up is okay by me. If not,keep Shelton. A swap of second rounders is unacceptable.

Let Buffalo deal with an unhappy player under contract.

We are not just one player away from being good. Denny has stated he likes building through the draft so I don't think he'll swap seconds.

This is all being driven by Buffalo fans who haven't come to grips yet with that Henry's attractiveness on the open market is limited.

 

[kerouac9]

Yes I really don't get why we're not pursuing Surtain unless there's some injury or salary reason not made clear.

Surtain is said to be seeking the following :
The Dolphins are looking for a second- or third-round pick for Surtain, who is believed to be seeking a signing bonus of at least $8 million on a long-term extension. He's entering the final year of a contract that pays him $6.15 million in 2005 and has a cap number of $8.383 million.

Yes that's a lot of money when we're looking at a double digit bonus for the firsr round pick as well, but Surtain is not going to be totally unaffordable. Obviously in trade his 2005 caphit would be 6.15 (bonus stays with Miami) which is big, but you can structure the deal so that comes down. The Cards typically like to do flat deals across the board but with some creativity we could get Surtain in at a lower caphit and free ourselves up to go BPA in the draft.

Maybe there's no interest in Surtain because he's just not that good anymore. This may sound familiar to you, since you're also the Trevor Pryce fan, but Surtain's 29 years old (will turn 30 during this offseason), hasn't completed a full season since 2001, and his stats have stagnated over the past three seasons. Denny wants players that are going to get better in a Cardinal uniform, not get worse. Now, if we were talking about guys like Wills Allen or Peterson on the Giants, I'd agree with you. But Surtain has peaked. This discussion is oddly reminiscent of what people were saying about Bobby Taylor and Troy Vincent last offseason. How did those deals work out?

I wonder if we wouldn't just be getting ourselves in to another Duane Starks situation here. I think that you're undervaluing second-round picks. They're really, really vaulable, both in the talent that you can acquire, and the price that it comes with. I'm not willing to part with a second-round pick for player that will only be good as he currently is for two years, and then start to decline, at a large salary. I think we're just so used to seeing crappy second-round picks like KVB, Michael Stone, Levar Fisher, Raynoch Thompson, and Johnny Rutledge that we don't realize that it's good second- and third-round picks that separate good teams from bad ones (L.J. Smith, Michael Lewis, Sheldon Brown, Matt Ware, Billy McMullen, Bryan Westbrook, and Derrick Burgess were all recent 2nd and 3rd round picks by the Eagles who have become sigificant contributors).

 

[Rats]

Maybe there's no interest in Surtain because he's just not that good anymore. This may sound familiar to you, since you're also the Trevor Pryce fan, but Surtain's 29 years old (will turn 30 during this offseason), hasn't completed a full season since 2001, and his stats have stagnated over the past three seasons. Denny wants players that are going to get better in a Cardinal uniform, not get worse. Now, if we were talking about guys like Wills Allen or Peterson on the Giants, I'd agree with you. But Surtain has peaked. This discussion is oddly reminiscent of what people were saying about Bobby Taylor and Troy Vincent last offseason. How did those deals work out?

I wonder if we wouldn't just be getting ourselves in to another Duane Starks situation here. I think that you're undervaluing second-round picks. They're really, really vaulable, both in the talent that you can acquire, and the price that it comes with. I'm not willing to part with a second-round pick for player that will only be good as he currently is for two years, and then start to decline, at a large salary. I think we're just so used to seeing crappy second-round picks like KVB, Michael Stone, Levar Fisher, Raynoch Thompson, and Johnny Rutledge that we don't realize that it's good second- and third-round picks that separate good teams from bad ones (L.J. Smith, Michael Lewis, Sheldon Brown, Matt Ware, Billy McMullen, Bryan Westbrook, and Derrick Burgess were all recent 2nd and 3rd round picks by the Eagles who have become sigificant contributors).

I agree that I would not give up our 2nd round pick. LJ and our 3rd would be doable. Surtain as you say "maybe" is on the down side of his career....but DG always seems to have a need for veterans that can still get it done. In a turn around project you have to have guys that make plays. That is why we picked up Okeafer instead of platooning Pace\Zellner. Surtain for LJ and our 3rd would be a value deal. For our 2nd rounder I would not consider it.

 

[Russ Smith]

Maybe there's no interest in Surtain because he's just not that good anymore. This may sound familiar to you, since you're also the Trevor Pryce fan, but Surtain's 29 years old (will turn 30 during this offseason), hasn't completed a full season since 2001, and his stats have stagnated over the past three seasons. Denny wants players that are going to get better in a Cardinal uniform, not get worse. Now, if we were talking about guys like Wills Allen or Peterson on the Giants, I'd agree with you. But Surtain has peaked. This discussion is oddly reminiscent of what people were saying about Bobby Taylor and Troy Vincent last offseason. How did those deals work out?

I).

Surtain is 28, will be 29 in June. He's missed 4 games in his career, 1 this past year, 1 the year before, 2 the year before that. No serious injury history like say Henry.

Allen and Peterson aren't on the trading block. 2002 and 2003 were the best INT years of his career, he fell off to 4 last year but of course teams weren't exactly passing all day against Miami since they were such a bad team the opponent was usually running out the clock.

BTW Allen missed 7 games in his first 3 years, finally played all 16 last year. Peterson has missed FIFTEEN games in his 4 year career. Not sure why you would pick 2 guys with a MUCH worse history to make your point other than Surtain is 3 years older than Peterson and 2 older than Allen.

I'm a firm believer that the way theyr'e calling the rules there's no such thing as a shutdown CB anymore, but relying on a rookie to be a starting CB over a guy like Surtain is iffy at best. Especially one who will get a bigger bonus than Surtain is asking for.

 

[kerouac9]

I agree that I would not give up our 2nd round pick. LJ and our 3rd would be doable. Surtain as you say "maybe" is on the down side of his career....but DG always seems to have a need for veterans that can still get it done. In a turn around project you have to have guys that make plays. That is why we picked up Okeafer instead of platooning Pace\Zellner. Surtain for LJ and our 3rd would be a value deal. For our 2nd rounder I would not consider it.

Surtain definitely is on the down side of this career. Cornerbacks--especially very physical corners like Patrick--don't fade, they just stop playing well. Surtain is suddenly available because his style of play isn't useful in the NFL anymore. I think that with the price tags each player carry, LJ for Surtain straight-up is a fair deal, but with the depth issues that the Cards have almost all over the place, I'm not willing to pass on a player like Pouha at the bottom of the third round for a guy that will only be good for two years, but will cost two to three times more.