What are your year 2 thoughts on K1 & K2 so far?

[WeBlitz]

Current positives & negatives?

 

[Finito]

God people really forget 2nd year 2nd freaking year and Murray was on pace to throw for 4,000 yards and rush for 1000. Idk what he is now after last week, but in his second year he’s pretty much the most dynamic Cardinal QB I ever seen.

As far as Kliff, do me a favor go back and look at Pete Carroll and BB first cracks at being head coaches in the NFL not really to impressive. It takes time man. It’s ok to make mistakes as long as you learn from them.

they are going to make mistake and there’s going to be growing pains, I just can’t stress that enough how young both these guys are. Kylers second year jump has been huge.

2 years ago we were a historically bad offense and now we’re a top 5 offense and if you just read this board you would think we were the Jets. I don’t take that stuff serious here anymore.

we just need to get our defense healthy and add some playmakers on defense and we’re going to be dangerous.

I’m not saying they are both perfect but damn 2nd year for both these guys that’s just crazy to me.

 

[FB94]

I am mostly pleased with direction of this team. Heading down the final stretch of games I would like to see the sloppy penalties be corrected. Get healthy on the D line as well. This team hasn’t played a complete game yet. Good as time as any to hit our stride

 

[ajcardfan]

You have to remember, clearly, how bad we were in 2018. We've seen some bad teams in Arizona, but that was as bad as any of the Tobin or Mcginnis teams of the early 2000s.

So, last year, we at least became an entertaining offense again. Noticeably improved all around by December.

This year we have shown we can play with anybody and have a very good shot at the playoffs. Murray has avoided the dreaded second year slump.

So, I think both are right on track.

Some fans seem to have these unreasonable expectations, that we should be mistake free and dominant as a team. The problem there isn't with KK or KM, as they are legitimately on track for a rebuild. The problem is with those fans having expectations that are unreasonable. Unreasonable expectations are pre planned disappointments.

 

[AZ Native]

I think they both have a lot to learn. Kyler had what, one year starting college? Kliff had a losing record ( and a terrible defense in college). If you just look at our offensive stats they look great. Kliff can call an offense that scores a lot of points (though he starts way too slow for me). As far as clock management he has been poor in my opinion. Most of us are yelling at the screen about the clock but then again we are not calling the next play and trying to get everyone in position. Instead we are at home with a beverage in our hand and do not have to juggle what he does. He seems overwhelmed with this at times. I too wish he had been brought in as our OC with a head coach to handle everything else. It is overwhelming for a former college coach with a losing record. I know he and KM were a package deal, but I believe he would be better suited brought in as an OC instead as the HC. Just one man's opinion.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Kyler has the possibility of not just being the best player ever on any Arizona team but has the potential to be a year in year out MVP candidate.

Kingsbury jury is totally out on.

 

[AZ Native]

[QUOTE="cheesebeef, post: 4349348, member: 529"

Kingsbury jury is totally out on.[/QUOTE]
is totally out on? What does that mean? Just asking for a friend.

 

[speedy]

I really like the personnel, but the game management is really pissing me off at this point. I like kliff, but some of this stuff is getting old. Sometimes I see him do things (ie- up in the Buffalo game after a big turn over with 4 min left/we’ve been running it up their ass ALL DAY LONG/we only manage to pull about 20 ticks of the clock before punting, or burning a timeout on a needless challenge late in the game Thursday) that make me think he is a joke/the pundits have valid points.

Much of this stuff is flat out inexcusable and indefensible.

this is my biggest problem with this team.

 

[Cheesebeef]

[QUOTE="cheesebeef, post: 4349348, member: 529"

Kingsbury jury is totally out on.

is totally out on? What does that mean? Just asking for a friend.[/QUOTE]

means TBD. I can’t decide if Kyler is carrying him or not. And I think a lot of his game managing skills are awful/the team consistently isn’t ready to play at the beginning of games/is Raiders level bad as far as discipline.

but, we’re 6-4 in his second year. And we were completely and utterly atrocious two years ago. So, I need more evidence of who he is. Thus the jury is out... meaning I’m having a tough time coming to an solid verdict on him.

 

[TaylorSwift]

Kyler has the possibility of not just being the best player ever on any Arizona team but has the potential to be a year in year out MVP candidate.

Kingsbury jury is totally out on.

ditto

 

[DVontel]

Kyler - Love him. Soon to be superstar, but those dumb intentional grounding penalties he keeps doing at least once a game really pisses me off.


Kliff - Team needs better discipline. Leading the league in penalties is a big no-no. The less usage of pre-snap motion compared to last year is very annoying. However, I also think he can’t/won’t win vs National audience when it comes to his perception. The team could go on a huge playoff run & win the SB, but Kyler carrying Kliff will be the reason & Kliff having very little to do with it. It’s almost as if Kliff would’ve been better off trotting a mediocre QB out & winning some games with him.

 

[AZ Native]

is totally out on? What does that mean? Just asking for a friend.

means TBD. I can’t decide if Kyler is carrying him or not. And I think a lot of his game managing skills are awful/the team consistently isn’t ready to play at the beginning of games/is Raiders level bad as far as discipline.

but, we’re 6-4 in his second year. And we were completely and utterly atrocious two years ago. So, I need more evidence of who he is. Thus the jury is out... meaning I’m having a tough time coming to an solid verdict on him.[/QUOTE]
fair enough.

 

[jmt]

Kyler is great. Kliff still has a way to go and the penalties need to stop. But we were awful two years ago so overall I am ecstatic. GBR!

 

[Dr. Jones]

is totally out on? What does that mean? Just asking for a friend.

I knew what you meant! hahahaha!!!!

 

[Broseph]

My thoughts are what I knew all along, Kyler is a franchise QB to build around and will only likely improve . Build your team around him. KK is learning too, but imagine if he was our OC he would be someone’s HC next year.

 

[Harry]

Murray - unlimited potential - if he improves QB skills
Kingsbury - spotted Murray’s talent - long way to go as coach, especially in-game work

 

[SoonerLou]

Murray - unlimited potential - if he improves QB skills
Kingsbury - spotted Murray’s talent - long way to go as coach, especially in-game work

Here's a better question. Is Kingsbury the guy to elevate Murray's QB skills?

I think he can. I just think Kliff is still adjusting to juggling so many duties as a HC.

Both have high potential. As of right now I think Klif would be better with a vet QB.
I think Kyler would be better with a more experienced play caller./QB developer

Hopefully they grow together and develop into greatness.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

KM with some better footwork and reading the D could be something really special.

But he needs to work on fundamentals to complete his game.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think kyler is a future MVP. I also think he’s ahead of his learning curve at present.

I think kk is a mixed bag. I think the lack of discipline with penalties is a direct reflection of his coaching. I think his game day management ebbs and flows but seems to abandon him at pressure moments, which is a bad sign imo. The best coaches get sharper at critical moments. I think he does a nice job of mixing his offense, but remains too deeply rooted in the college game of broadening the field that doesn’t work as well at the nfl where the hashes aren’t as wide and players are much faster. I think the fact we come out flat to begin most games is also a detractor for him, but the flip side is the fact he seems to be pretty good at adjustments. All that said, I’m still not sure how much of our turnaround is due to kyler dragging kk’s offense behind him. Much of kylers biggest runs come off designed passes where he sees opportunity and takes advantage.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

My first thought is that my opinion on QB's in the NFL is AWFUL.

OT: I wanted to start Leinart over Warner.

I wanted to start John Skelton over Kevin Kolb and Ryan Lindley (not too bad here, )

I was angry when we did not draft Teddy Bridgewater.

I was angry when we did not draft Lamar Jackson.

I wanted to keep Josh Rosen.

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Kyler Murray is like having the perfect mix of Teddy Bridgewater, and Lamar Jackson. He was the right choice when moving on from Josh Rosen. (as for the OT: Warner mention? He did suck when he first got here, pre-gloves)

Kyler Murray is so enjoyable to have on this team, that I literally do not know how to handle it. They talk about him so much on sports programs that I am not comfortable with it (and my lack of comfort makes NO SENSE).

I have no issues with Murray's attitude, his play, or anything. He is only in year 2 and he has been everything he was advertised.


I like Kliff Kingsbury. I really like his attitude and how humble he can be. But, I like his personality, but not his coaching. I think he is very much over matched against other coaches. He is only in year 2 in the NFL, and was not a big winner in college. I think he is a top flight offensive mind, but he is severely lacking as a head coach. Again, he seems over matched, over whelmed and in need of some support. No, Vance Joseph is not the guy to support KK, because Joseph seemed to suffer from the same issues in his head coaching stint.

The concern is you cannot go backwards. Kliff is the head coach, attached to the hip with Kyler and the only thing you could do is bring in an assistant head coach, but where and what does he do?

 

[BritCard]

Murray has taken a more gradual curve upwards than the big leaps we saw from many year 2 QB's recently. Possibly due to the strange off season.

Kliff, well he's still Kliff. Every keeps saying "He's still learning" which is fair enough, but where's the signs of it? He's making similar bone head game management decisions as he did early last year.

I like Kliff, I don't want him fired, but I'd like at least 1 week to go by without a questionable decision that you have to shake your head at. Maybe he is trying to do too much and needs to pas something off to Clement or someone else he trusts.

 

[TaylorSwift]

KM with some better footwork and reading the D could be something really special.

But he needs to work on fundamentals to complete his game.

I think this is a really underrated aspect of Kylers

There was a pass play in the 2nd? where Deandre Hopkins was able to get a personal foul called on quadre diggs for hit to defenseless receiver.

Kyler threw the ball to a spot in between the defense. Hopkins was supposed to stop on that route.

He seems to process things and learn very quickly on the field.

 

[PACardsFan]

Let’s make this simple. K1 is a special QB, who will continue to improve. VJ is not the answer for me on defense, but he’s not going anywhere just yet. Way too soon to judge KK. No one can question his offensive mind, but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t concerned that penalties & stupid play doesn’t reflect on him. Not sold that he’s tough enough to hold players accountable. And Joseph is just as soft in that respect. This team needs a tough personality on that coaching staff. I like Kugler, but not sure what his personality is like either.

 

[GimmedaBall]

KM's game depends way too much on his running ability. That's not sustainable over a 10-year (or more career). He has more potential for being a RGIII shooting star than the best Cardinal QB of all time. RGIII electrified the NFL for a season with his runs and passing---not so much after he was injured and was forced to become a pocket passer. KM will be even less successful than RGIII if he is ever confined to the pocket---his height and the angle of ball delivery will get him in the record books for having the most passes deflected. Already, his height disadvantage vs NFL players has taken the slot receiver and the middle (especially deep-middle) out of K2's playbook.

K2 looks like a college OC pretending to be an NFL HC. Even in college, he looked like a college OC pretending to be a college HC. In 6 years at Texas Tech, he went 35-40. He had plenty of time at the college level to hone his game management and crunch time skills. We get the occasional unique play call---but the D book is slowly coming together against both K2 and KM. We are at 6-4 this year and 11-41-1 total. How do we finish this year---do we finish below .500 or do we rally and go 10-6 or better?

How much involvement does K2 have with the D? Is he strictly a HC in name only and is that side of the ball given totally over to VJ? A HC needs to have his fingers into all aspects of the team's performance---not just one element of the game before he is considered a true HC.

We should get a good look into the future with the Pat game. If KM is kept in the pocket by either injury or fear of future injury---we'll have a notion of what's in store. How is K2 going to match up against the D-master Billicheat? Pats are a team in transition---will we be able to beat them with our injuries on the D and a possibly limited KM? Will K2 come up with a game plan for both? (Or should I say VJ come up with a game plan for the D)

This next draft needs to be with heavy input by K2 as to what type of players he wants for his O. I see a lot of our current roster getting moved out and K2 specific guys brought in. Fitz will most likely retire---the WR room will be cleaned out except for Hop and Kirk (even Kirk is under scrutiny as a #2---is he showing up enough?)

As a long-time fan, I'm happy with the exciting games. I'd like to see us at the point where we are not counting on Hail Murray's and OT field goals. Like to see a game or two this season where our O blows the other team out, our D locks down the other team---preferably both.

 

[football karma]

K1 is a very good QB right now -- but he can get so much better in terms or reading Ds and delivering the ball. I think a real offseason of work in the offense would be a real benefit to his development.