What big man is out there ?

[cly2tw]

What's goal of adding a big? To get back to WCF like last year?

 

[sunsfan88]

What do you guys think of this trade? It automatically makes us a contender IMO.

Of course the Suns would also have to part with draft picks. But I would rather send draft picks away through this than SEE SARVER SELL THE FREAKIN PICKS!

But yea here it is;

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2f8pojm

 

[jagu]

What do you guys think of this trade? It automatically makes us a contender IMO.

Of course the Suns would also have to part with draft picks. But I would rather send draft picks away through this than SEE SARVER SELL THE FREAKIN PICKS!

But yea here it is;

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2f8pojm

Emm, not really. I like Thompson though!

How about this:
Eddy Curry, Landry Fields, Anthony Randolph
for Jason Richardson

Lopez
Randolph
Hill
Fields
Nash

We get a starting PF, SG and the Knicks get a star SG to go alongside Stat.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

What do you guys think of this trade? It automatically makes us a contender IMO.

Of course the Suns would also have to part with draft picks. But I would rather send draft picks away through this than SEE SARVER SELL THE FREAKIN PICKS!

But yea here it is;

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2f8pojm

How in the hell do you think that trading Lopez and Dudley for Thompson and McGee "automatically makes us a contender(s)"? Are you on Ritalin? I mean, damn, I like Thompson for this team as much as the next guy and I'd be happy to have McGee here as well, but you're WAAAAAAY overstating this trade....

 

[jagu]

Anyway we can get Marreese Speights from Philly?

 

[Divide Et Impera]

What big man is out there?

How about possibly Demarcus Cousins:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/30/demarcus-cousins-kicked-out_n_789580.html

6'11"/270 rookie.

Attitude problems possibly? Could we deal with him? I'd certainly give it a try....

 

[AzStevenCal]

What big man is out there?

How about possibly Demarcus Cousins:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/30/demarcus-cousins-kicked-out_n_789580.html

6'11"/270 rookie.

Attitude problems possibly? Could we deal with him? I'd certainly give it a try....

Nah, they'll get rid of Westy first. After a few years and a few more head coaches they'll start to realize just how much of an immature, headstrong coach killer they have there. Or, the guy will grow up - but, I wouldn't hold my breath on it.

He's very talented but he came out of college with a reputation for being uncoachable and apparently that's not changing anytime soon. Don't get me wrong, I'd take him in a heartbeat but it's like playing with dynamite.

Steve

 

[jagu]

Guys with personal issues usually get run out of Phoenix fast. I still would get him. He's friggin huge.

See Marbury, Kidd...

 

[Chaplin]

How in the hell do you think that trading Lopez and Dudley for Thompson and McGee "automatically makes us a contender(s)"? Are you on Ritalin? I mean, damn, I like Thompson for this team as much as the next guy and I'd be happy to have McGee here as well, but you're WAAAAAAY overstating this trade....

+1

 

[sunsfan88]

How in the hell do you think that trading Lopez and Dudley for Thompson and McGee "automatically makes us a contender(s)"? Are you on Ritalin? I mean, damn, I like Thompson for this team as much as the next guy and I'd be happy to have McGee here as well, but you're WAAAAAAY overstating this trade....

How? Dudley has played horrible. The guy needs to put the time he chats on twitter into praciticing shot.

Lopez has gotten harassed by every opponent's big man we played til he got a boo-boo. The guy lived off Amare boxing out and he was able to get the boards. But now that Amare isnt boxing out for him, he cant get the rebounds.

Not to mention that Lopez is the 2nd most starting injury prone center in the NBA with the first being Oden. Does Lopez ever hit the gym?

By trading Dudley away we now arent overstocked at that SF spot and Turkoglu can get his minutes.

McGee>>>>>Lopez

An instant upgrade at the center position with someone as young as him but McGee can actually get boards and he's great defensively.

I like Dudley's defense too but right now we need interior defense & rebounding more than anything. Plus Childress can play just as good defense.

O yea and you asked how this makes us a contender: I strongly believe there is only two things holding back the Suns...that's defense and rebounding and Thompson & McGee are able to just that.

 

[mojorizen7]

This team is going to have to subtract first.....before they add anything to get back onto the championship path.

Not a popular opinion i'm sure.....
The core has been reduced to JRich,an aging Nash,an aging Hill and a sleepwalking Hedo the Turk.
YUCK

Addition by subtraction is in order here. We're light years from contending again.

 

[Errntknght]

I think sunsfan88 is overly optimistic about the immediate impact of the trade but it would be a fantastic move for us - he's dead right about what ails this team. Maybe one of the other teams would even let us throw Earl Clark in just for good will. I'm afraid, though, that 'fantastic' is the operative word... in other words its purely a fantasy.

I agree to an extent with mojo about the subtraction but Hedo is the only one gumming up the works, IMO. He's too expensive for Gentry to comfortably sit and young enough to be around a while. The natural course of events will see the others off at about the right time and in the meantime they are worthwhile.

Of course, if some contender sees one of them as just what they need to boost their chances for a title and the player in question is happy to go, we should send them off with our blessing - and a little something in return.

 

[Yuma]

Somewhere in Africa there's a 7 foot plus guy that can run and jump that no one knows about.....

 

[jagu]

Somewhere in Africa there's a 7 foot plus guy that can run and jump that no one knows about.....

The Air Up There?

 

[Chaplin]

Somewhere in Africa there's a 7 foot plus guy that can run and jump that no one knows about.....

Probably right, but our scouting department sucks pretty bad right now, so I wouldn't expect the Suns to bring him in...

 

[jagu]

Probably right, but our scouting department sucks pretty bad right now, so I wouldn't expect the Suns to bring him in...

We can always get DJ Mbenga and his 0.9 PPG

 

[JCSunsfan]

This team is going to have to subtract first.....before they add anything to get back onto the championship path.

Not a popular opinion i'm sure.....
The core has been reduced to JRich,an aging Nash,an aging Hill and a sleepwalking Hedo the Turk.
YUCK

Addition by subtraction is in order here. We're light years from contending again.

Lopez, Warrick, Childress, and Dragic are part of a young promising core. Can't believe you left them out.

 

[mojorizen7]

Lopez, Warrick, Childress, and Dragic are part of a young promising core. Can't believe you left them out.

They are a promising young group of players i agree(and i hope these players can contribute for years to come) but my definition of a teams "core" of players are the starters,veterans,the franchise guys that you continue to build around.
In our case it's been Nash and Amare for years....now its a 38 yr old Nash and......um....those other guys i mentioned.

Blow it up.

 

[elindholm]

Blow it up.

You keep saying this without acknowledging that no one on the Suns has any trade value. Nash might fetch a late first-rounder, but that's it.

The Suns' next savior will be someone that isn't on anyone's radar now (including mine). It's probably someone who isn't even in the league yet. It's silly at this stage to look at other rosters and say let's get Josh Smith or Kevin Love or whoever. The teams that have those players won't be letting them go any time soon -- certainly not for what the Suns could offer in a trade.

 

[mojorizen7]

You keep saying this without acknowledging that no one on the Suns has any trade value.

I'm not sure where you're getting this idea from me. I've acknowledged several times that our tradable assets are JRich,Nash,Hill and slim pickings at best. Getting fair market value is another thing,but when you're gutting a team, fair market value is not a luxury.
Me:

The hole is deep. No single trade is going to make a difference this season.

DarenG:

I agree. Although, don't we have to try? I would rather them try and get the ball rolling rebuilding this team by the trading deadline versus waiting for the offseason. I just don't know if they can.

Me:

+1
Definately,but like you said,the SUNS have very little flexability at this point. They have....JRich.

I just don't support a knee jerk trade designed to try to get this team into the playoffs.

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2356567&postcount=22

Nash might fetch a late first-rounder, but that's it.

I agree,and a late 1st rd pick is more valuable than a 38 yr old Nash in terms of this team going forward. No?


Now,if you want to debate whether or not a team with few tradable assets has the capability to gut the roster and blow it up in 1 or 2 seasons thats another argument. I say its possible for the SUNS to do so.

 

[elindholm]

I agree,and a late 1st rd pick is more valuable than a 38 yr old Nash in terms of this team going forward. No?

No.

In the NBA, at least under the current system, players have enormous say in where they spend the majority of their careers. Good players gravitate toward franchises with strong reputations.

Is it an accident that the Celtics, rather than any other mediocre team of a few years ago, were the ones that got Garnett and Allen? Certainly not: Neither the Wolves with Garnett, nor the Sonics with Allen, wanted to destroy their reputations by trading their stars to some loser franchise. The Celtics have instant credibility, so they have an inside track in landing those players. Garnett and Allen were both delighted to go to Boston, not because they knew they would win a title, but because they were going to a franchise with an appealing history.

Shaquille O'Neal went to the Lakers not only to be close to Hollywood, but because the Lakers have a winning tradition. James and Bosh went to the Heat to play with Wade -- but the whole appeal of playing with Wade was that he had won a title there. The list goes on and on.

Right now, the Suns are still in the second tier of franchises as far as reputation is concerned. I say "still," because they are in danger of slipping. Of course we would prefer that they would be in the first tier, but that's not in the cards. Dump Nash for a late pick, and watch the Suns fall into the same category as the Kings, Pacers, Nets, or any other franchise that had a couple of decent playoff runs in past years but otherwise is going nowhere.

If the Suns could get real assets for Nash, a trade might make some sense. But late first-round picks are so close to worthless that they can often be purchased outright on draft day. In that case, you're trading Nash for a few millions dollars, plus the ability to make a hollow claim that you're "looking toward the future," without anyone to lead you there. Players and agents notice these things.

As much as we like to complain, the Suns have done very well in recruiting. Tom Chambers was the league's first unrestricted free agent, and he came to Phoenix. Then you have Manning and McDaniel (or was he a trade, I can't remember) and Tisdale and several others.

And then of course you have Nash. On paper, the Suns didn't have much of a squad when Nash rejoined. Did anyone expect him to win two MVPs, no, but he was still a coveted talent. Nash came to the Suns not only to play with Stoudemire, but also because he believed in the Suns' reputation for doing things right. Hill isn't exactly chump change either.

We probably couldn't name more than half a dozen teams in the league who have done as well as the Suns when it comes to free agents. Have they landed a true superstar, well no, probably not, but not very many have. Kick your two-time MVP to the curb for nothing more than a garbage pick, and you damage your reputation in a way that will take a generation to repair.

 

[sunsfan88]

No.

In the NBA, at least under the current system, players have enormous say in where they spend the majority of their careers. Good players gravitate toward franchises with strong reputations.

Is it an accident that the Celtics, rather than any other mediocre team of a few years ago, were the ones that got Garnett and Allen? Certainly not: Neither the Wolves with Garnett, nor the Sonics with Allen, wanted to destroy their reputations by trading their stars to some loser franchise. The Celtics have instant credibility, so they have an inside track in landing those players. Garnett and Allen were both delighted to go to Boston, not because they knew they would win a title, but because they were going to a franchise with an appealing history.

Shaquille O'Neal went to the Lakers not only to be close to Hollywood, but because the Lakers have a winning tradition. James and Bosh went to the Heat to play with Wade -- but the whole appeal of playing with Wade was that he had won a title there. The list goes on and on.

Right now, the Suns are still in the second tier of franchises as far as reputation is concerned. I say "still," because they are in danger of slipping. Of course we would prefer that they would be in the first tier, but that's not in the cards. Dump Nash for a late pick, and watch the Suns fall into the same category as the Kings, Pacers, Nets, or any other franchise that had a couple of decent playoff runs in past years but otherwise is going nowhere.

If the Suns could get real assets for Nash, a trade might make some sense. But late first-round picks are so close to worthless that they can often be purchased outright on draft day. In that case, you're trading Nash for a few millions dollars, plus the ability to make a hollow claim that you're "looking toward the future," without anyone to lead you there. Players and agents notice these things.

As much as we like to complain, the Suns have done very well in recruiting. Tom Chambers was the league's first unrestricted free agent, and he came to Phoenix. Then you have Manning and McDaniel (or was he a trade, I can't remember) and Tisdale and several others.

And then of course you have Nash. On paper, the Suns didn't have much of a squad when Nash rejoined. Did anyone expect him to win two MVPs, no, but he was still a coveted talent. Nash came to the Suns not only to play with Stoudemire, but also because he believed in the Suns' reputation for doing things right. Hill isn't exactly chump change either.

We probably couldn't name more than half a dozen teams in the league who have done as well as the Suns when it comes to free agents. Have they landed a true superstar, well no, probably not, but not very many have. Kick your two-time MVP to the curb for nothing more than a garbage pick, and you damage your reputation in a way that will take a generation to repair.

I agree 100%.

Especially the part about having a winning tradition here in PHX.

But I think the guy you were quoting meant that we should trade Nash if the Suns look down this year and that "winning tradition" goes away.

 

[mojorizen7]

In the NBA, at least under the current system, players have enormous say in where they spend the majority of their careers. Good players gravitate toward franchises with strong reputations.

Is it an accident that the Celtics, rather than any other mediocre team of a few years ago, were the ones that got Garnett and Allen? Certainly not: Neither the Wolves with Garnett, nor the Sonics with Allen, wanted to destroy their reputations by trading their stars to some loser franchise. The Celtics have instant credibility, so they have an inside track in landing those players. Garnett and Allen were both delighted to go to Boston, not because they knew they would win a title, but because they were going to a franchise with an appealing history.

Shaquille O'Neal went to the Lakers not only to be close to Hollywood, but because the Lakers have a winning tradition. James and Bosh went to the Heat to play with Wade -- but the whole appeal of playing with Wade was that he had won a title there. The list goes on and on.

Right now, the Suns are still in the second tier of franchises as far as reputation is concerned. I say "still," because they are in danger of slipping. Of course we would prefer that they would be in the first tier, but that's not in the cards. Dump Nash for a late pick, and watch the Suns fall into the same category as the Kings, Pacers, Nets, or any other franchise that had a couple of decent playoff runs in past years but otherwise is going nowhere.

I agree with all of this for the most part,although the SUNS are dangerously close to the likes of the team's you mentioned in terms of FA reputation(whole other debate....). I don't believe that moving Steve Nash at this point in his career will damage much more than the rah rah sector of the fanbase(which is a pretty large sector admittedly).
Too bad. This franchise looks foolish already(around the league) for continually trying to recycle success they had 4 and 5 yrs ago with an aging PG and a mixed bag of jump shooting SF's.

Gary Payton meant as much to Seattle as Nash does here. Where did he go? He was older,and it was time to break that core up. No harm,no foul.....that franchise wasn't folded due to trading Payton thereby damaging anyone's reputation.

Howabout Karl Malone? The face of the Utah Jazz. Traded.

Scottie Pippen was moved late in his career.

The SUNS made a run with Barkley and then "poof"....he was moved.

Nash's destination would be very important obviously,but i'm not buying the NBA reputation argument in this case. Had we traded Nash 3 yrs ago then yeah,thats different. Today,he's nearly done,and this teams core IS DONE.

The rest of the league,agents etc could care less if the SUNS traded Nash at this point,unless he goes to a contender(changes the landscape of things), but i don't see how thats presents a negative image of PHX.

plus the ability to make a hollow claim that you're "looking toward the future," without anyone to lead you there. Players and agents notice these things.

This is an integral part of rebuilding a team(minus the hollow reference).
Of course there's no one to lead you there initially,which is why you bite the bullet and unload people in order to wipe the slate clean.

Sure,most picks are worthless,but not all of them,and that comes down to scouting. Gathering "worthless" draft picks and either using them or selling them later for players or even better draft picks is a viable strategy.

Bottom Line: PHX needs to do whats best for PHX.
It's not an anomoly.

 

[mojorizen7]

I would only add that we're looking at this "moving Nash debate" from the POV of an owner of a franchise(at least i am).
PR is huge....i get that part, but lets not forget that Nash has been given the utmost respect since he was re-aquired here 6 yrs ago. He's been given the keys to the team,the face of the franchise,a say in personnel(including coaches),and he was given a nice contract extension when he was surely past his prime....and above all, this team took their best shot multiple times by surrounding him with the kind of talent that allowed him to become the great player he is.

Thank you Steve Nash,but the franchise must move on. "Where would you like to go?"
Whats the old saying?.......you don't have to go home but you can't stay here.

Being an owner requires making hard decisions.....especially when you're in it for the long haul. I don't know,maybe Sarver's not in it for the long haul. That would explain alot actually.

 

[SunsTzu]

Garnett wanted no part of Boston until they got Allen, which is why he was initially going to be dealt to the Suns despite Minnesota getting assets from the Celtics. It wasn't their tradition(which had absolutely nothing going for it for about 2 decades). Similarly the Bulls have struck out on nearly every major FA they have targeted since their dynasty.

Tradition is great and all but most players care more about the now.