What big man is out there ?

[Chaplin]

Funny that you bring up Gary Payton and Karl Malone. Outside of Carlos Boozer, who didn't win the Jazz a championship, what free agent victories did either the Sonics/Thunder or Jazz have since Payton/Malone got away? None. Seattle/OKC has been building through the draft for 15 years and only now are looking good, although not championship-caliber yet. The Jazz are a more boring version of the Suns. Average to above-average every year, but not going anywhere in the playoffs. In fact, the Suns have more playoff success than the Jazz have had over the past 10 years.

 

[elindholm]

Gary Payton meant as much to Seattle as Nash does here. Where did he go? He was older,and it was time to break that core up.

My memory is that he made himself an ass and was pretty vocal about wanting out. That's obviously different.

Howabout Karl Malone? The face of the Utah Jazz. Traded.

Signed as a free agent for pennies -- after Stockton had retired -- so that he could chase a ring. Not the same at all.

The SUNS made a run with Barkley and then "poof"....he was moved.

Barkley had already started his routine of threatening to retire every summer. He couldn't get along with Kevin Johnson and the Suns' chemistry was terrible. They traded Barkley for what they thought was value -- two key role players and two other minor talents from a recent championship squad. It didn't pan out, but it was at least a credible trade on paper.

The rest of the league,agents etc could care less if the SUNS traded Nash at this point,unless he goes to a contender(changes the landscape of things), but i don't see how thats presents a negative image of PHX.

Because it would be a cosmetic move, not one that actually improves the team's prospects for the future. We seem to be in agreement that the most one could expect for Nash is a late first-round pick and maybe some mediocre talent that would be gone in a couple of years anyway. If you want a late first-round pick, you just go buy one. You don't need to trade away your best player for the privilege.

Gathering "worthless" draft picks and either using them or selling them later for players or even better draft picks is a viable strategy.

Everyone always talks about packaging picks to move up, but it almost never happens.

Bottom Line: PHX needs to do whats best for PHX.

Of course. What gives you the impression that I believe differently?

If you're honest with yourself, you'll admit that the main reason you want Nash traded is that it would make a statement that the Suns are done with this era. But you don't rebuild with rhetoric; you rebuild with talent. If you honestly think that the #28 pick in the 2012 draft is the key to turning the franchise around, well okay. I'd rather keep the Suns in people's minds as a team that has to be taken at least somewhat seriously.

 

[AzStevenCal]

But you don't rebuild with rhetoric; you rebuild with talent. If you honestly think that the #28 pick in the 2012 draft is the key to turning the franchise around, well okay. I'd rather keep the Suns in people's minds as a team that has to be taken at least somewhat seriously.

I'd still trade him even if the best we could get was the #28 pick in the 2012 draft. I think we could get more but I'd do it regardless. My perspective is a little different than others on this subject because I'm convinced we won't make the playoffs this year and I see no reason to believe that Nash will ever again have a measurable impact on our performance. I think we can miss the playoffs just fine without him.

If there actually is a season long lockout, do people really expect to see quality play from a guy that will turn 39 in the next season he plays? Even if his back problems remain under control it's hard to picture Nash playing past this season.

Granted, a low 1st round pick may not have a lot of value but you can't draft that diamond in the rough without draft picks. Every one of them increases the likelihood that we'll acquire someone who can help us. Besides, I'm still holding out hope that Atlanta or Orlando will pay a premium to get what might be the missing piece for them.

Steve

 

[mojorizen7]

If you're honest with yourself, you'll admit that the main reason you want Nash traded is that it would make a statement that the Suns are done with this era. But you don't rebuild with rhetoric; you rebuild with talent.

Blah blah. You don't rebuild by holding onto players like Nash till he's 40 either,which is why moving him is a necessary PART of rebuilding.

If you honestly think that the #28 pick in the 2012 draft is the key to turning the franchise around, well okay. I'd rather keep the Suns in people's minds as a team that has to be taken at least somewhat seriously.

...and with this intentionally ignorant perception of my side of the argument i'm done discussing it w/you.
You know very well that's not my contention,yet you always find a way to debate by using condesending remarks like this that simply change the context.
Rebuilding involves many moves,and trading Nash is only one part of it.....but you knew that was my take.

As far as people taking the SUNS seriously, the longer this franchise tries to build around Steve Nash the more of a joke it becomes.

 

[Errntknght]

Its irrelevant whether we make the playoffs or not because we'll be going into them unarmed for the postseason battles. Frankly, I don't think its a good idea to blow the team up and quibbling over drafting, signing FAs or trading for pieces is pointless - of course you use all methods of acquiring players.

Not blowing up the team doesn't mean that we wouldn't entertain offers for Nash and Hill, provided they are agreeable to change. If no one wants to offer something worthwhile then we keep them on. (If there is a season long lockout, the odds are good they'll both retire, so I'd keep that in mind when deciding what is worth while.)

I'm also not opposed to moving JRich or to keeping him if the price is right - his D, rebounding and inside scoring are good enough to help whatever kind of team we put together. Needless to say, dealing Hedo is on the table come the middle of the month.

The only thing I'm really interested in is a 'culture' change for the team and that means a major increase in the importance of defense, including rebounding. I've wanted this for the majority of my adult life but now I'm to the point that I'm not able to watch our team getting pushed and bumbling around on defense. Its like they're advertising what a pushover they are going to be in playoffs.

So the focus of rebuilding is not on exactly what methods we will use to acquire players - we have some good defenders on the team but the coaching staff seem to have their minds on the trivia. Step one should be reviving the second unit that did so well last year. Don't saddle them with Hedo and play them as a unit to build cohesion. Give all of our youthful bigs an opportunity to be a part of it - Barron, Clark, Siler and Lawal. Who knows what being an integral part of a playing unit will bring out in them? Heck, even Clark might respond to that. If none of them do, then at least, we know we can dump them... open up some roster spots. Of course, we figure to lose some games but as far as I'm concerned the team would be worth watching again.

 

[elindholm]

yet you always find a way to debate by using condesending remarks like this that simply change the context.

That wasn't my intention.

Rebuilding involves many moves,and trading Nash is only one part of it....

But aren't they rebuilding? Aside from hanging onto Nash, what makes you think they aren't looking toward the future? They tried to start Lopez, but his body fell apart. They are trying to give more time to Dragic, but he still has no clue how to run the halfcourt offense. They made big investments in Frye, Childress, and (to a lesser extent) Warrick, all of whom are young-ish and (we hope) have room for improvement. They even brought in Turkoglu to play the role of "seasoned veteran to show leadership" once Nash is gone. And finally, they are apparently refusing to extend Richardson, presumably so that they can be players in the free agent market.

I don't think that too many of those moves were good ones, but I do accept them as an attempt at rebuilding.

As far as people taking the SUNS seriously, the longer this franchise tries to build around Steve Nash the more of a joke it becomes.

I guess our disagreement is that I don't see them as "building around Nash." He's the best player on the roster and they're using him while he's here. If they could find someone else to be a new #1, they'd probably jump at the chance -- but there aren't too many players like that out there.

My guess is that the Suns are just as desperate in their search for a new franchise player as you want them to be. Everyone knows Nash won't be around much longer. You still haven't explained how giving him away for next to nothing will help the rebuilding process.

 

[Bufalay]

Then you have Manning and McDaniel (or was he a trade, I can't remember)

Eddie Johnson's rolling over in his grave.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Eddie Johnson's rolling over in his grave.

Eddie Johnson died!? How did I miss that?

 

[Bufalay]

Eddie Johnson died!? How did I miss that?

That phrase was adopted by Charles Barkley to refer to retired NBA players. As far as I know, Eddie Johnson is still alive.

 

[Mainstreet]

The same posters who would trade Nash for a late first round draft pick would have traded John Stockton at 38. One cannot reason with this mindset.

 

[JCSunsfan]

That phrase was adopted by Charles Barkley to refer to retired NBA players. As far as I know, Eddie Johnson is still alive.

Oh, OK. I thought it was just life in prison or something that he got. Was thinking maybe I missed him getting the death penalty or something.





Just in case

 

[JCSunsfan]

The only reason to trade Nash for a late pick is because Nash personally asks for it. I would do it out of respect for him. It would not make basketball sense at all.

BTW, even now he is worth much more than that.

Put Nash on Orlando or Miami's roster and you really have something. LeBron and Wade would learn to play off the ball really quickly with Nash running the show--and they would love it.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The only reason to trade Nash for a late pick is because Nash personally asks for it. I would do it out of respect for him. It would not make basketball sense at all.

BTW, even now he is worth much more than that.

Put Nash on Orlando or Miami's roster and you really have something. LeBron and Wade would learn to play off the ball really quickly with Nash running the show--and they would love it.

I certainly wouldn't trade him if he was against it. If he wants to finish his career here I'd let him do it. Getting rid of him isn't going to drastically alter our immediate future so it's just not worth alienating a player that has done so much for this franchise.

As for not making basketball sense, I disagree. I think it makes sense from a basketball perspective IF (and only if) you expect a season long lockout to follow this season. In that case we'd likely be foregoing his services for just this season which makes a late 1st round pick a slight upgrade IMO. It may not make sense from the business side but I think it does from a basketball perspective.

Despite what I just said, I'm not a real strong proponent of moving him right now. I think it was very much the right thing to do during the offseason but it has a bit less value making the move today. Had we done it the day after Amare left us we'd have had time to put in a new offense designed to take advantage of (and test) Goran Dragic. That way, by the time basketball started back up in a few years we'd know whether we needed a starting PG. But that opportunity has been wasted.

Steve

 

[jagu]

I hope the Suns never trade Nash to Miami. I can't stand that team and Lebron is just annoying. Nash would be a pretty good fit in Orlando, they are already a three point shooting team anyway and Nash can pick and roll with Dwight and find the open shooters on the wings.

 

[SactownSunsFan]

If Portland continues to slide, perhaps they'll blow it up and we can make a bid for Marcus Camby. Camby would be a great fit in our system.

 

[elindholm]

If Portland continues to slide, perhaps they'll blow it up and we can make a bid for Marcus Camby. Camby would be a great fit in our system.

Camby is 36 years old, not exactly a prime target for a rebuilding team.

 

[SactownSunsFan]

Camby is 36 years old, not exactly a prime target for a rebuilding team.

Sorry, I must have missed the memo that states we're rebuilding.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Camby is 36 years old, not exactly a prime target for a rebuilding team.

I was trying to think of how to respond to this also. Really, if we could add him to this roster and if he stayed reasonably healthy, I think he'd actually make us a pretty competitive team. I'd also probably lose my bet that we wouldn't finish in the top 5 this season.

But, just how much of our future would we have to throw away to get a guy who is over the hill and often injured? Whatever it would cost, I doubt it would be worth it in the long run.

Steve

 

[jagu]

If Portland continues to slide, perhaps they'll blow it up and we can make a bid for Marcus Camby. Camby would be a great fit in our system.

The Suns really don't need Marcus Camby, he is a good player but A) He old and b) I rather have Nash.

 

[SactownSunsFan]

The Suns really don't need Marcus Camby, he is a good player but A) He old and b) I rather have Nash.

Why would you assume it would take Nash to get Camby?

 

[elindholm]

Sorry, I must have missed the memo that states we're rebuilding.

I'm not aware of an official memo, but I'd say it's fairly obvious. This team isn't competing for a title now and the core of the roster is either very old (Nash, Hill) or probably in his last season with the team (Richardson). They're "rebuilding" in the sense that they are trying to stockpile younger assets and figure out what the team will look like a few years from now.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

They're "rebuilding" in the sense that they are trying to stockpile younger assets and figure out what the team will look like a few years from now.

I wish there was clear evidence of that. To me the entire direction of the team is a mystery and a giant debacle.

 

[Chaplin]

Sorry, I must have missed the memo that states we're rebuilding.

Do you want the Suns to rebuild or not?

One day on this board people want to blow the team up, the next everybody wants to trade for a 36-year-old center.

 

[SactownSunsFan]

Do you want the Suns to rebuild or not?

One day on this board people want to blow the team up, the next everybody wants to trade for a 36-year-old center.

No, I think this team can still make waves this year if we can land a serviceable big man with the ability to rebound and defend the post. A guy like Camby would make sense, so long as we can put together a package that would make sense for both teams.

 

[mojorizen7]

If Portland continues to slide, perhaps they'll blow it up and we can make a bid for Marcus Camby. Camby would be a great fit in our system.

Camby could have made all the difference in the world a few years ago playing next to guys like Nash/Bell/Barbosa/Marion/Amare....even despite SSOL.