What did you expect from Watson as the coach?

[AsUpRoDiGy]

So not being an allstar makes Watson a career loser?

And how does this influence his coaching ability?

What about Michael Jordans playing career vs Phil Jackson, Steve Kerr, Ainge, Sloan etc? Who is the better basketball executive now?

I didn't call him a loser...I just said he's accustomed to losing...big difference.

 

[Covert Rain]

You sound like you have been a loser all your life.

Wow. Really?!

 

[AzStevenCal]

I did not understand the lack of a hiring process (interviewing other head coaching candidates) when the Suns hired Watson. Maybe they would have hired him anyway but (IMO) they should have at least done their due diligence.

Despite all the internet hand-wringing over this, I'm still of the opinion that what the Suns did is pretty standard. If you're the interim coach, you're usually either just a fill-in (with no real chance at the position) or you're the one they've chosen for an on-the-job audition. If the season ends and they open up the interview process, that typically means you've failed your audition.

By results, I can understand anyone that believes Watson failed his audition last season. Perhaps they hired him for the wrong reason but I have no problem with the process itself. So far, I love the man and what he seems to stand for but I've yet to see evidence that he can prepare and motivate his team to win. That's a hard thing to do with this much youth but even allowing for youth, we have better talent than our record suggests. But I also think it's too early to write him off.

 

[JustWinBaby]

What a joke, a coach whose only team he coached so far was projected by all neutral observers to be one of the 3 worst teams in the league.



You sound like you have been a loser all your life.

You know nothing about me.

Trust me I have been at the top end of my class in everything I have ever done. I have managed more people than you know and have always made everyone better. I do not need to be questioned by someone like you. You can disagree, that is what posting on the internet is all about. Keep it to that and all will be good.

I have shoes older than you and have been following basketball prior to your father being born. I know good basketball when I see it. We are not playing good basketball. I blame that on the coach because that is who always get the blame. I do not mind losing but I want to watch basketball played the right way. This guy obviously was not ready for this job. Just another poor choice by our management team. He does not deserve the blame. Who hired him deserves the blame.

Now, please explain what makes you think Watson is going to be a good coach?

What player has he made better in the past 12 months?

I have asked these questions numerous times and have yet to receive an answer. The subject always is changed to how bad MDA was due to the great job that Mike Woodson did after he left town.

Convince me. More importantly convince the team, they need help and direction.

I just do not see any progress on any front. I see Booker, our golden boy, even regressing. Booker also seems disinterested and disgusted far too often. I think it is up to the head coach to lead the team with a positive mental attitude. Watson just stands on the sidelines and stares. About what, I have no idea.

Maybe PJ Tucker should be our head coach. As much as I wish him gone, he does play with passion. This team could use more of that.

 

[Mainstreet]

Despite all the internet hand-wringing over this, I'm still of the opinion that what the Suns did is pretty standard. If you're the interim coach, you're usually either just a fill-in (with no real chance at the position) or you're the one they've chosen for an on-the-job audition. If the season ends and they open up the interview process, that typically means you've failed your audition.

By results, I can understand anyone that believes Watson failed his audition last season. Perhaps they hired him for the wrong reason but I have no problem with the process itself. So far, I love the man and what he seems to stand for but I've yet to see evidence that he can prepare and motivate his team to win. That's a hard thing to do with this much youth but even allowing for youth, we have better talent than our record suggests. But I also think it's too early to write him off.

I don't believe opening up the the audition process would have meant Watson failed the audition, but rather I would call it being thorough. I'm not down on Watson as much as some but I can't help but question if another hire with a system approach might have done better.

Anyway, what's done is done. The Suns need to give him the opportunity.

 

[slinslin]

bla bla bla ramble ramble.

It's funny how defensive you get about being called a loser, when it was you who called Watson a loser without knowing a thing about him.

I didn't call him a loser...I just said he's accustomed to losing...big difference.

You were never adressed, big difference.

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

You were never adressed, big difference.

You insulted someone...I defended them. Human courtesy. Get over it.

 

[Covert Rain]

It's funny how defensive you get about being called a loser, when it was you who called Watson a loser without knowing a thing about him.



You were never adressed, big difference.

The big difference is regardless of what he said about Watson you made it a personal attack. We all have different opinions for whatever reason. It's a forum.

 

[slinslin]

The big difference is regardless of what he said about Watson you made it a personal attack. We all have different opinions for whatever reason. It's a forum.

What he stated was not opinion, it was personl attack on Watson with nothing substantial to back it up beside some rambling.

 

[Covert Rain]

What he stated was not opinion, it was personl attack on Watson with nothing substantial to back it up beside some rambling.

Are you Watson? He didn't attack you personally. It was the other way around. He is entitled to his opinion.

 

[elindholm]

What he stated was not opinion, it was personl attack on Watson with nothing substantial to back it up beside some rambling.

For god's sake, what happened to you? You used to be rational.

Watson is a public sports figure. That means people are going to criticize him. It comes with the territory.

And I'll do it too: So far, Watson sucks as an NBA coach. I could take over for him tomorrow and the team would play just as well. You know the advanced baseball stat, Wins Above Replacement? For NBA coaches, it should be Wins Above Moderately Informed Fan. Watson would be at zero in that statistic, if not negative. He spends the entirety of every game looking like he's trying to fight off a bout of diarrhea, afraid to move too quickly or change the position of his head. Between games, I suppose he must say things like "defense" and "run" and "pass the ball," without any recognition that the squad is completely ignoring him. Whatever he's teaching the young players, they aren't learning it; and whatever he's counting on from the veterans, they aren't providing it.

 

[Covert Rain]

For god's sake, what happened to you? You used to be rational.

Watson is a public sports figure. That means people are going to criticize him. It comes with the territory.

And I'll do it too: So far, Watson sucks as an NBA coach. I could take over for him tomorrow and the team would play just as well. You know the advanced baseball stat, Wins Above Replacement? For NBA coaches, it should be Wins Above Moderately Informed Fan. Watson would be at zero in that statistic, if not negative. He spends the entirety of every game looking like he's trying to fight off a bout of diarrhea, afraid to move too quickly or change the position of his head. Between games, I suppose he must say things like "defense" and "run" and "pass the ball," without any recognition that the squad is completely ignoring him. Whatever he's teaching the young players, they aren't learning it; and whatever he's counting on from the veterans, they aren't providing it.

Good post. Except I remember irrational love /defense of Lopez and Beasley too. I guess Watson is that guy now.

 

[Hoop Head]

Watson seems to be the designated scapegoat this season amongst fans, which is silly IMO because this team is in the middle of rebuilding. You could say they've been in the process of rebuilding for a while now but we finally have enough young players to seriously be building for the future. I don't think anyone expects Watson to be the coach that leads this team out of the cellar though. Surely if the players like him and they're responding and developing under him than I don't see the harm in him coaching them for the next year or two. I know people are disappointed in Booker's play this season but you can't blame Watson for that, Watson gave him the starting spot, he gets plenty of minutes, and has a green light on offense. I don't think anyone has regressed under Watson's tenure.

 

[elindholm]

I don't think anyone has regressed under Watson's tenure.

Booker's the main individual player. Watson took over at roughly the All-Star Break last season, so it's pretty easy to compare statistics from the last half-season of Hornacek to the year under Watson.

Booker's shooting numbers:
2015-16 pre-AllStar (Hornacek): .450 overall, .403 3FG, 1.31 points per shot
2015-16 post-AllStar (Watson): .401, .287, 1.13
2016-17 (Watson): .401, .323, 1.10

Knight's problem, as we have all seen, is that he is in love with the shot just a few inches inside the three-point line, which is usually called the worst shot in all of basketball. The way to see that is to look at his 2FG%:
2015-16 pre: 2FG% .475
2015-16 post: .377
2016-17: .415

Tucker can't make three pointers anymore:
2015-16 pre: .346 3FG
2015-16 post: .304
2016-17: .325

The team's assist/turnover ratio, which was already bad, has gotten worse:
2015-16 pre: 1.26
2015-16 post: 1.23
2016-17: 1.18

The team's increasingly lazy defense is captured in the greater number of fouls:
2015-16 pre: 22.2 fouls per game
2015-16 post: 23.6
2016-17: 25.5

Len got a big bump when Watson took over, but has given almost all of it back:
2015-16 pre: 19.5 mpg, 6.2 rpg
2015-16 post: 30.6, 10.3
2017: 22.3, 7.3

And it sure looks as though team defense has gotten worse, although I'm not going to dig into the numbers to prove it.

So basically, since Watson has taken over,

* shot selection has gotten worse
* ball movement has gotten worse
* accountability on defense has gotten worse
* the team's least disciplined players (Knight and Tucker) are taking more bad shots
* Len's apparent progress has reversed itself

Gee, what's not to like?

 

[Errntknght]

Interesting stats Eric, but I don't think you can put quite everything on Watson. Knight, for instance - it was a given that he'd play worse once taken out of the starting line up - he didn't fall for that 6th man of the year stuff. Yet starting Booker was an obvious move. Len's rebounding rate has stayed constant, just fewer minutes when Chandler's healthy. I think Len should start but that's a different complaint. What we want to know is how well he plays as a starter, not a sub - and Earl is booting the perfect chance to find that out.

As far as defense is concerned my calculations show that it has improved a small bit, comparing this year to last year as a whole. I have two slightly different methods of calculating it and they both show the same small improvement - one takes strength of schedule into account and the other doesn't.

 

[Hoop Head]

Booker's the main individual player. Watson took over at roughly the All-Star Break last season, so it's pretty easy to compare statistics from the last half-season of Hornacek to the year under Watson.

Booker's shooting numbers:
2015-16 pre-AllStar (Hornacek): .450 overall, .403 3FG, 1.31 points per shot
2015-16 post-AllStar (Watson): .401, .287, 1.13
2016-17 (Watson): .401, .323, 1.10

Knight's problem, as we have all seen, is that he is in love with the shot just a few inches inside the three-point line, which is usually called the worst shot in all of basketball. The way to see that is to look at his 2FG%:
2015-16 pre: 2FG% .475
2015-16 post: .377
2016-17: .415

Tucker can't make three pointers anymore:
2015-16 pre: .346 3FG
2015-16 post: .304
2016-17: .325

The team's assist/turnover ratio, which was already bad, has gotten worse:
2015-16 pre: 1.26
2015-16 post: 1.23
2016-17: 1.18

The team's increasingly lazy defense is captured in the greater number of fouls:
2015-16 pre: 22.2 fouls per game
2015-16 post: 23.6
2016-17: 25.5

Len got a big bump when Watson took over, but has given almost all of it back:
2015-16 pre: 19.5 mpg, 6.2 rpg
2015-16 post: 30.6, 10.3
2017: 22.3, 7.3

And it sure looks as though team defense has gotten worse, although I'm not going to dig into the numbers to prove it.

So basically, since Watson has taken over,

* shot selection has gotten worse
* ball movement has gotten worse
* accountability on defense has gotten worse
* the team's least disciplined players (Knight and Tucker) are taking more bad shots
* Len's apparent progress has reversed itself

Gee, what's not to like?

It's easy to cherry pick the players who have had their stats dip while ignoring players like Bledsoe and Warren who are clearly playing better under Watson.

Team defense was bound to take a hit with a more young players on the roster. We don't have an experienced PF.

Booker is shooting a little worse but I think that can be put to a few different things. He's now 1 of the focal points of the team we're playing so he's not getting easy looks anymore and he's also playing against starters almost exclusively. He also started this year with his injury that hurt his jump shot quite a bit. I don't think his shooting slump can be attributed to Watson.

Knight has regressed but his role has been reduced from starting PG/SG to a bench player, he's not getting 6th man minutes and he hasn't earned that role, in reality. Tucker is 31 and he doesn't take great care of himself so he's definitely on the downside of his career. His hustle gets him minutes but he's always been awful offensively. Both of those players are coming off the bench, Knight is seeing fewer minutes as the season moves forward also. It'd be nice if he was productive but that's only so we could trade him for something of value. I don't think any fans want him to stay here throughout his contract and with Bledsoe and Booker starting in the backcourt, do you really want to see one of them see less minutes so Knight can chuck away?

 

[hcsilla]

His hustle gets him minutes but he's always been awful offensively.

No, he was OK offensively under Hornacek.

 

[elindholm]

It's easy to cherry pick the players who have had their stats dip while ignoring players like Bledsoe and Warren who are clearly playing better under Watson.

Bledsoe's stats are almost identical, and he looks about the same by the "eye test" as well. We'll see about Warren when the sample size is larger.

Team defense was bound to take a hit with a more young players on the roster. We don't have an experienced PF.

As opposed to the defensive stalwart that was Markieff Morris last season? Hornacek didn't have a PF either.

Booker is ... playing against starters almost exclusively.

Knight has regressed but his role has been reduced from starting PG/SG to a bench player

So Booker's numbers have gotten worse because he's gone from the bench to starting, and Knight's have gotten worse because he's gone from starting to the bench? That's an awfully convenient pair of excuses.

Tucker is 31 and he doesn't take great care of himself so he's definitely on the downside of his career. His hustle gets him minutes but he's always been awful offensively.

Then the coach should be telling him to shoot less, or play more within himself, or something. Or, if Tucker has to be part of the offense, set up plays to take advantage of his strengths. Don't just say, "Well, he sucks, that's a shame, I guess we're stuck with everything he does." If Tucker is uncoachable, cut him; and if he isn't, coach him.

with Bledsoe and Booker starting in the backcourt, do you really want to see one of them see less minutes so Knight can chuck away?

No, I'd like to see Knight take better shots. The volume of shots is another question, but that is what it is with him.

 

[sdscard4]

I hated Watson as that little annoying Sonic. Can't get over hes coaching my team. Blah

 

[JustWinBaby]

I hated Watson as that little annoying Sonic. Can't get over hes coaching my team. Blah

Quite frankly, you are exactly where I am on him.

I just could stand to watch him play. Now I have watch him stand on our sideline with a blank stare.

 

[sunsfan88]

Let's face it, the only reason he was hired is because he was the cheapest option available.

When has Sarver ever been willing to pay top dollar for coaches or executives?

Porter, Gentry, Hunter, Hornacek were all among the least paid coaches in the NBA during their tenure here.

 

[Mainstreet]

Let's face it, the only reason he was hired is because he was the cheapest option available.

When has Sarver ever been willing to pay top dollar for coaches or executives?

Porter, Gentry, Hunter, Hornacek were all among the least paid coaches in the NBA during their tenure here.

Actually I like the way the Suns are playing right now.

He may not be the right answer at head coach long term but I like the way the players are responding to him. Also he has done a good job of playing the young players and showcasing the veterans.

 

[sunsfan88]

Actually I like the way the Suns are playing right now.

He may not be the right answer at head coach long term but I like the way the players are responding to him. Also he has done a good job of playing the young players and showcasing the veterans.

I'm more interested in coaches who are good at Xs and Os of basketball rather than the rah-rah motivator coaches.

The best coaches in the league can often do both.

Guys like Stevens, Stotts, Snyder are coaches who excel at the Xs and Os of basketball. Guys like Mark Jackson and Earl Watson are the ones who are only good at inspirational speeches and such.

Bender and Ulis are still not getting much minutes while worthless players like Knight and Tucker continue to get heavy burn. I'm still not a fan.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm more interested in coaches who are good at Xs and Os of basketball rather than the rah-rah motivator coaches.

The best coaches in the league can often do both.

Guys like Stevens, Stotts, Snyder are coaches who excel at the Xs and Os of basketball. Guys like Mark Jackson and Earl Watson are the ones who are only good at inspirational speeches and such.

Bender and Ulis are still not getting much minutes while worthless players like Knight and Tucker continue to get heavy burn. I'm still not a fan.

When I talked about Watson playing the young players and showcasing the veterans, I believe the Suns will be making a trade involving one or more veteran players before the trade deadline. I think we have to be patient for now as this will likely free more time for players like Ulis and Bender. Also as Watson is a rookie head, he deserves patience as well. The Suns showed some good stuff when they played the Cavaliers.

 

[leclerc]

If a trade is made and we see Bender and Ulis get 20-30 mpg from the all star break out then all is forgotten. I also prefer knowledge over cumbaya talk.

Trade trade trade.