What did you expect from Watson as the coach?

[Chaplin]

It is highly unlikely with Robert Sarver as owner.

What would have happened if D'Antoni had coached the Spurs with all the talent they had? It is not like Popovich won a championship every year. The Spurs also have always added rather than subtracted players from the mix so that they would remain competitive. Robert Sarver has systematically destroyed the talent on the Phoenix Suns, ever since he purchased this team.

No one wants to play here and no one wants to coach here. That is a fact.

That's not a fact, but arrogant presumption by a fan and so-called armchair coach.

And you are seriously comparing D'Antoni to Popovich? Really? That completely invalidates any credibility you think you had.

The personnel problems of the current Suns aren't even close to what is being talked about right now, so no reason for you to bring that up.

 

[Chaplin]

I guess Thibodeau is not a good coach.

Please explain how he is a good coach when his team is losing?

I guess Mike is in a special category.

I cannot wait to hear the spin.

Thibodeau is the exact opposite of D'Antoni. Thibodeau's problem is that he doesn't have the players that play to his strengths as a coach.

 

[Covert Rain]

It is highly unlikely with Robert Sarver as owner.

What would have happened if D'Antoni had coached the Spurs with all the talent they had? It is not like Popovich won a championship every year. The Spurs also have always added rather than subtracted players from the mix so that they would remain competitive. Robert Sarver has systematically destroyed the talent on the Phoenix Suns, ever since he purchased this team.

No one wants to play here and no one wants to coach here. That is a fact.

You can't even begin to put Pop and D'Antoni in the same sentence. Do I think D'Antoni wins a title with the Spurs? No. I really don't. Because the Spurs were a great defensive team. Something D'Antoni doesn't seem to excel at. Not to mention that Pop loves to play chess and D'Antoni likes to play checkers.

 

[3rdside]

No one wants to play here and no one wants to coach here. That is a fact.

Yeah this is not right - Chandler stuck around in the summer and if you look at Chriss's post draft interview he said he was bummed at first when Sacramento drafted him then super stoked when his rights got moved to us.

I think we're probably a 'nice' team to play for with a good guy head coach, great facilities and great weather, we're just not very good. But I'm also probably sure that in some circles McD has stained our reputation a little as well.

And if you're a wannabe head coach, Phoenix is as good as anywhere.

 

[3rdside]

*But if you're an existing head coach then yeah, maybe, with $aver and McDonut in the house.

 

[hcsilla]

Another falsehood about Mike's tenure.

Gentry's team in 09/10 - Ranked 19th in defensive efficiency

Mike's Phoenix Teams were ranked - 12th, 19th, 16th and 17th.

That's strange. I remember that even Popovich said how much the Suns improved in defense under Gentry.

 

[3rdside]

lies, damned lies, and greg popovich..

 

[Mainstreet]

Amen

But what really good coach wants to work for Robert Sarver?

We are stuck with the likes of Earl Watson, I guess. While we he coaches horrible defense and continues to play PJ freaking Tucker over our youngsters.

What a joke!

I'm not ready to evaluate Earl Watson this early in the coaching process. D'Antoni wanted to coach the Suns again not that it matters now.

 

[Mainstreet]

Hold on....I didn't bring him up. I was responding. I don't see anbyody starting "pound on D'Antoni" threads. He got plenty of "due" when he was here but fans were overwhelmingly done with him by the time he left. He benefited from having a HOF PG in Nash. It's not like he has been devoid of talent in his other stops either. It's just I don't think D'Antoni outside of offense was ever able to get the most out of players here. You can't honestly tell me that if POP coached those same teams we don't have at least one title in the rafter.

I don't think anybody is saying D'Antoni can't help an offense are they?

I am responding your "post" not imaginary "threads." I understand you think D'Antoni is an underachiever. So be it. You have a right to your opinion. However, almost all coaches need an an upper tier PG to succeed.

However, did you ever think Dallas would let Nash walk if they thought he would become a two-time MVP? Perhaps D'Antoni deserves credit for running a system that would allow Nash to blossom into the player he became. Nash improved as a player under D'Antoni. It's a fact. They had a symbiotic relationship. Sure D'Antoni needed Nash just like D'Antoni needs Harden. Good coaches need great players.

Probably the primary reason D'Antoni is no longer with the Suns is his failure to beat a very good team in the Spurs and a very good coach in Popovich to advance in the playoffs. The Spurs stood in the Suns way.

How can Popovich coach the Suns if he was coaching the Spurs? This is a spurious argument.

 

[Mainstreet]

Who's not giving him his due?

The guy had some very successful years here. But if you REALLY want to be realistic, fine, let's be realistic. The main reason he WAS successful wasn't because he wasn't a great coach. The reason he was successful is because he had a certain point guard on the team. PERIOD. Take that point guard away and look what happens.

And don't give me that bull about his "circumstances" with NY and LA. Good coaches are supposed to handle diversity. Why are we even talking about this?

Most coaches need good PGs to be successful. D'Antoni needs a special playmaker to run his system. That's why the Suns went after Nash. This is why he is having success with the Rockets.

 

[Covert Rain]

I am responding your "post" not imaginary "threads." I understand you think D'Antoni is an underachiever. So be it. You have a right to your opinion. However, almost all coaches need an an upper tier PG to succeed.

However, did you ever think Dallas would let Nash walk if they thought he would become a two-time MVP? Perhaps D'Antoni deserves credit for running a system that would allow Nash to blossom into the player he became. Nash improved as a player under D'Antoni. It's a fact. They had a symbiotic relationship. Sure D'Antoni needed Nash just like D'Antoni needs Harden. Good coaches need great players.

Probably the primary reason D'Antoni is no longer with the Suns is his failure to beat a very good team in the Spurs and a very good coach in Popovich to advance in the playoffs. The Spurs stood in the Suns way.

How can Popovich coach the Suns if he was coaching the Spurs? This is a spurious argument.

You said "yet DA is still getting pounded by many on the Suns forum. DA is not coming back to the Suns but give the man his due when he coached the Suns.".

Which seemed to indicate that all these people pounding on D'Antoni as if all these threads were started to go after him. You also then indicated nobody is giving his due again...like all these people were slighting him.

That wasn't happening. People were responding to the D'Antoni praise which is a different picture then you were painting.

Again...your post above is assuming that everybody is saying D'Antoni had no talent and didn't do anything. Please read.

Last but not least, the topic was D'Antoni, his ability to coach and comparing him to another coach is anything but spurious. Nobody argued Pop could be in two places at once!? That's a ridiculous rebuttal. The point had nothing to do with breaking the space time continuum.

The fact remains that often coaches can do much more with talent then other coaches. It's also a fact that Pop is a way better coach then D'Antoni. He could have gotten much more out of those players IMO.

 

[JustWinBaby]

Thibodeau is the exact opposite of D'Antoni. Thibodeau's problem is that he doesn't have the players that play to his strengths as a coach.

This makes absolutely no sense. Unfortunately this is how most of the Suns fans evaluate MDA.

When Mike loses as a coach it is because he cannot adjust to the talent on hand. He can only win when he has Steve Nash as his PG, etc etc etc. He is the worst defensive coach in history. However we have been worse defensively every year since he left town.

Why isn't Thibodeau held to the same standard?

The Wolves are losing 2 out of every 3 games. They are ranked 25th in the league for defensive efficiency. That is worse than the Suns at 24 and Tom is considered to be a defensive genius. The Wolves should be far better, IMO.

The worst defensive coach in history, Mike D'Antoni, has the Rockets ranked 14th, tied with Cleveland.

 

[Mainstreet]

You said "yet DA is still getting pounded by many on the Suns forum. DA is not coming back to the Suns but give the man his due when he coached the Suns.".

Which seemed to indicate that all these people pounding on D'Antoni as if all these threads were started to go after him. You also then indicated nobody is giving his due again...like all these people were slighting him.

That wasn't happening. People were responding to the D'Antoni praise which is a different picture then you were painting.

Again...your post above is assuming that everybody is saying D'Antoni had no talent and didn't do anything. Please read.

Last but not least, the topic was D'Antoni, his ability to coach and comparing him to another coach is anything but spurious. Nobody argued Pop could be in two places at once!? That's a ridiculous rebuttal. The point had nothing to do with breaking the space time continuum.

The fact remains that often coaches can do much more with talent then other coaches. It's also a fact that Pop is a way better coach then D'Antoni. He could have gotten much more out of those players IMO.

I was responding to your post.

I'm not sure why you decided to refer to "threads." You seem to be using this word not I. The thread title of this discussion is "What did you expect from Watson as the coach?" to be clear.

Above, I used the word "many" but you used the word "everybody." Please do not assume.

I don't see how you can assume Popovich wins a championship coaching the Suns in a vacuum just like you can't assume Steve Nash would have targeted by the Suns to run the team with Popovich as head coach.

 

[JustWinBaby]

Yeah this is not right - Chandler stuck around in the summer and if you look at Chriss's post draft interview he said he was bummed at first when Sacramento drafted him then super stoked when his rights got moved to us.

I think we're probably a 'nice' team to play for with a good guy head coach, great facilities and great weather, we're just not very good. But I'm also probably sure that in some circles McD has stained our reputation a little as well.

And if you're a wannabe head coach, Phoenix is as good as anywhere.

My point is that we have not signed a great free agent since Steve Nash. The best we have landed other than Nash was probably Grant Hill. Unfortunately he was on the downside of his career but gave it his all while he was here. He was a very good signing indeed but I expect Steve Nash had more to do with that than anything else.

I really do not think that Chandler was a great signing and I think we wasted a lot of money this summer on Dudley and Barbosa. I like those guys but none of them are stars or are ever going to be a star. This means that it has been 12 years since our last great free agent acquisition and that was done while Colangelo was still around.

What coach has been worth a crap since Mike left town. I like Gentry probably more than anyone on this board but he is not a great coach. The other coaches were hired with little or no experience.

Our weather is great and it is a great place to live.

We should be an ideal destination for both players and coaches.

Why are they not joining this franchise????????????

 

[Covert Rain]

I was responding to your post.

I'm not sure why you decided to refer to "threads." You seem to be using this word not I. The thread title of this discussion is "What did you expect from Watson as the coach?" to be clear.

Above, I used the word "many" but you used the word "everybody." Please do not assume.

I don't see how you can assume Popovich wins a championship coaching the Suns in a vacuum just like you can't assume Steve Nash would have targeted by the Suns to run the team with Popovich as head coach.

Naturally "everybody" is an exaggeration much like people "many" are "pounding" on D'Antoni. Also, it seems to be OK for people to assume what a great coach he is besides his track record after he left, that he could do well here again or you to assume what he could do with the Wolves?!? Yet not OK to assume a hall of fame coach could have done better with our talent!?! What happened to that vacuum thing?

At any rate, I am not saying D'Antoni is the worst coach ever. I am not saying he doesn't have some talent as a coach. I am simply saying you know what you get in D'Antoni and his track record doesn't prove otherwise. That simple.

 

[slinslin]

People who are calling for Bender to play more, why? How do you justify that? Bender's production is disastrous so far, it was bad in summer league, it was bad in preseason, it is bad in the season. Bender provides almost nothing positive when he plays so far. Considering his production he is already playing a decent amount of minutes.

If you can't produce in limited minutes, do you really think it is a good idea to let him play more minutes like that? How would the rest of the roster react to that?


Bender vs Chriss

PER

Bender 4.3 - Chriss 9.5

eFG%

Bender 35.9% - Chriss 41.7%

TS%

Bender 45.2% - Chriss 49.3%

Offensive Rating (team average is 103.9)

Bender 83 - Chriss 95

Defensive Rating (lower is better, team average is 110.7)

Bender 112 - Chriss 110

Total Rebounding Percentage

Bender 7.4% - Chriss 11.1%

Assist Percentage ( Percentage of baskets a player assisted while on the floor)

Bender 3.9% - Chriss 4.7%

Turnover Percentage (Percentage of posessions a player turned the ball over)

Bender 16.6% - Chriss 14.9%

Winshares

Bender -0.03 - Chriss 0.08


I get sad thinking about that we had 2 top 5 picks in the last 3 years and the outcome is Alex Len and Dragan Bender.

At least Len is developing slowly, but he should start and he needs to show what he can do with consistency. His production is good at 14 ppg / 12 rpg / 2.6 bpg per36 but he needs to play 30mpg and produce.

On the other hand Tyson Chandler is having a great year.

 

[Chaplin]

Who cares about the rest of the roster? You think Chriss is going to be upset that Bender is getting minutes? So what? And if Tucker and Dudley are upset that he's taking their minutes, who cares? You have completely written off Bender, and I'm not sure why. The only thing that doesn't completely make me go "huh?" is the fact that, well, you're you.

Personally, it's hard to take you seriously since you don't actually watch games and only think stats tell the whole story. But this has been your story for years.

 

[Mainstreet]

Naturally "everybody" is an exaggeration much like people "many" are "pounding" on D'Antoni. Also, it seems to be OK for people to assume what a great coach he is besides his track record after he left, that he could do well here again or you to assume what he could do with the Wolves?!? Yet not OK to assume a hall of fame coach could have done better with our talent!?! What happened to that vacuum thing?

At any rate, I am not saying D'Antoni is the worst coach ever. I am not saying he doesn't have some talent as a coach. I am simply saying you know what you get in D'Antoni and his track record doesn't prove otherwise. That simple.

I enjoyed having the discussion with you as always Covert. Have a wonderful Holiday season!

Every time we mention the word vacuum I need remind myself I should be doing just that.

 

[Covert Rain]

I enjoyed having the discussion with you as always Covert. Have a wonderful Holiday season!

Every time we mention the word vacuum I need remind myself I should be dong just that.

LOL. You and me both. Hope you and your family have a great Holiday as well.

 

[Errntknght]

I noticed slin left out one of his favorite stats - plus minus/48. Big surprise Bender is +2.1 amd Criss -10. One could make the case that by getting three times the minutes Bender is, Criss is improving much faster. Not only more minutes, he also has a set place in the rotation while Bender gets on the floor at Watson's whim. We're getting about the result you'd expect with that disparity.

 

[JustWinBaby]

The problem is really with the way Watson is handling the situation.

One day he says Bender needs to play more. The next day he is pimping Tucker for defensive player of the year. Bender has not played since Watson said he needs to play more but he constantly is pimping Tucker.

Why not just say Bender is not quite ready and we are working with him everyday to make him a part of this team. Until then, Tucker is a great example for our younger players.

 

[Hoop Head]

The problem is really with the way Watson is handling the situation.

One day he says Bender needs to play more. The next day he is pimping Tucker for defensive player of the year. Bender has not played since Watson said he needs to play more but he constantly is pimping Tucker.

Why not just say Bender is not quite ready and we are working with him everyday to make him a part of this team. Until then, Tucker is a great example for our younger players.

I think Bender should be playing more but I think saying he's not ready to the media would be worse than praising him and not playing him. Saying an NBA player isn't ready for big minutes or minutes at all is something that would kickstart the rumor mill regarding a number of things.

 

[slinslin]

I noticed slin left out one of his favorite stats - plus minus/48. Big surprise Bender is +2.1 amd Criss -10. One could make the case that by getting three times the minutes Bender is, Criss is improving much faster. Not only more minutes, he also has a set place in the rotation while Bender gets on the floor at Watson's whim. We're getting about the result you'd expect with that disparity.

Plus Minus is not one of my favorite stats. Real adjusted plus minus is one of my favorite stats as it accounts to who is actually on the floor with the player. Bender is terrible in that regard, like 83rd od 88 NBA PFs. Chriss is equally bad in that regard.

Plus minus without context is worthless, Bender plays against 3rd stringers and garbage time. Chriss plays against starters.

Chriss earned his minutes by thoroughly outplaying Bender in summer league and preseason and is continue to outplay him by a decent margin right now.

Bender was not even close to ready to play against top European competition eary in the year. He is even further from ready to contribute anything against NBA competition.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Round two Monday night
Mike vs Earl
Phx vs Hou

 

[leclerc]

Watson often don't follow up on his word which is really disappointing. I agree. If he means he isn't ready then say so. Being a coach isn't 100% a popularity contest.