What happened to Isaiah Simmons?

[Chopper0080]

Yeah but if you think he’s the starter (and as our #1 FA Target i would hope that would be Keim’s thinking) and you think hicks is a starter, where do you think that leaves Simmons (the 8th pick) with a less than creative DC? A creative genius gets him starters snaps somehow. Vance . . . uh . . . no.

I am confused why this seems to be a controversial criticism? There isn't really a valid counter argument. I mean, when is the last time a team has chosen to sit a top 10 rookie who is not a QB?

They took a non-traditional player to play in a traditional defense.

They took a player who was blocked by their #1 FA available or target or whatever (they really liked Campbell)

They didn't give him a role outside of being one player's backup (Campbell). A "eraser" and "positionless player" who "wowed them at the combine with his skill on the white board" can't play over Tanner Vallejo at SILB; Devon Kennard, Haason Reddick, Dennis Gardeck and Kylie Fitts at OLB; and Curtis Riley, Banjo or Dionte Thompson at S.

WTF?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

True. So was hiring him in the first place. The guy who Joseph copies is available anyway. I’d still be onboard with being Phillips on in some capacity to figure this out

Me too

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I am confused why this seems to be a controversial criticism? There isn't really a valid counter argument. I mean, when is the last time a team has chosen to sit a top 10 rookie who is not a QB?

They took a non-traditional player to play in a traditional defense.

They took a player who was blocked by their #1 FA available or target or whatever (they really liked Campbell)

They didn't give him a role outside of being one player's backup (Campbell). A "eraser" and "positionless player" who "wowed them at the combine with his skill on the white board" can't play over Tanner Vallejo at SILB; Devon Kennard, Haason Reddick, Dennis Gardeck and Kylie Fitts at OLB; and Curtis Riley, Banjo or Dionte Thompson at S.

WTF?

100%

 

[juza76]

Do u think keim is the type of GM who can force a coach to use his first round rookie more often?

 

[Chopper0080]

Do u think keim is the type of GM who can force a coach to use his first round rookie more often?

It's like this. Either Keim did not consult Vance prior to drafting Simmons (stupid), Vance lied to Keim about the role Simmons would have (unlikely), or neither had any sort of idea how to use this unconventional player but took the shiny toy regardless of that fact (likely and also stupid).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Do u think keim is the type of GM who can force a coach to use his first round rookie more often?

No. I think he’s spineless with coaches.

 

[juza76]

No. I think he’s spineless with coaches.

Its a pity he didn't learn the lesson from the previous experience with Bruce Arians

 

[Jetstream Green]

It's like this. Either Keim did not consult Vance prior to drafting Simmons (stupid), Vance lied to Keim about the role Simmons would have (unlikely), or neither had any sort of idea how to use this unconventional player but took the shiny toy regardless of that fact (likely and also stupid).

Sort of like a guy getting a Ferrari but cannot drive stick

 

[scandalous_b]

Everyone loved the Simmons pick, and especially me
Obviously he has been unlucky to start his nfl career with Vance Joseph
But even if I m optimistic about his future I see some concerns about him
In the few times I watched him on the field looks slow really to recognize a play, that's why is rarely the first guy going to tackle
I mean when I watched Darryl Washington playing the first game he was so quick and u could notice him on almost every plays

I think that is more of your eyes playing tricks on you. Plus - most of the plays Simmons has been on the field have gone to the opposite side of him.

If you think he looks slow - here's a tweet for you:

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Bigger guys just a look a little different when they're moving fast.

 

[juza76]

I think that is more of your eyes playing tricks on you. Plus - most of the plays Simmons has been on the field have gone to the opposite side of him.

If you think he looks slow - here's a tweet for you:

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Bigger guys just a look a little different when they're moving fast.

Slow to recognize a play and slow to react, I know athletically is super fast for his size

 

[scandalous_b]

I’m not saying he’s a bust but I’m tired of people using the abbreviated preseason/training camp as excuse.
I just watched highlights of Patrick Queen tearing it up for Baltimore today (sack, fumble recovery and score).

To be fair - Patrick Queen hasn't exactly lit the world on fire.

According to PFF, he ranks two spots from dead last in PFF grade of all qualifying LBs.

Before you all start whining - I know PFF isn't the be all and end all - but its something. So far it indicates that Queen has been nothing short of a nightmare in coverage.

Ive also seen both Chase Young and Derrick Brown impact the game already this year. They are all working on the same timeline

1. Chase Young is considered a generations pass rushing prospect. Year after year we see pass rushing translate to the NFL, and he did it better than just about anybody in college. Not sure that's the best person to compare him to.

2. I did not catch the Panthers game today - but in just about 100 pass rushing snaps this season, Derrick Brown had 3 QB hurries. You can get a run-stuffing DT in all rounds of the draft. There's also plenty of them sitting in free agency at all times.

 

[scandalous_b]

Slow to recognize a play and slow to react, I know athletically is super fast for his size

I would agree with you in the SF game, where it was a nightmare from beginning to end. No doubt.

But I haven't seen that nearly as much since then, although he really hasn't gotten a ton of opportunities. Most of his snaps are coming on the edge, where there isn't really a ton to diagnose.

I will be curious to see in the coaches film what he looked like on his few snaps at deep safety and at corner against their TE, since he is most certainly more comfortable in those roles from his time at Clemson. I wish they would let him do more of that, but its clear that they don't trust him yet - which I find absolutely ridiculous & inexcusable.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Stop calling Campbell their number 1 target. That’s fake news. They had him ranked as a #1 available player but he wasn’t their top target because they knew they wouldn’t be able to afford him long term. After he didn’t get long term offers at the money he wanted, he agreed to a 1 year deal with us. Also, benching him for a lesser player in Simmons right now would not bode well for us with year deals in the future. You’ve got to see the forest through the trees.

Yeah but if you think he’s the starter (and as our #1 FA Target i would hope that would be Keim’s thinking) and you think hicks is a starter, where do you think that leaves Simmons (the 8th pick) with a less than creative DC? A creative genius gets him starters snaps somehow. Vance . . . uh . . . no.

Hold on. Let me be clear. I think Vance is trash. No two ways about that. I’m not sticking up for him at all here.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Great. We used the #8 pick in the draft to fill a role that street free agent Devondre Campbell can fill to a "near pro bowl" level. What a waste of an athletic freak of nature.

Lol. Yet, had we not drafted him, you’d be trashing Keim and calling for him to be fired for not building depth. You guys crack me up.

 

[BigRedRage]

The one play I saw him on, he didn't know his assignment and hicks was telling at him pre snap

Sent from my motorola edge plus using Tapatalk

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Perhaps he looks slow because the way VJ is treating him makes him worry about being perfect all the time instead of playing with confidence.

 

[scandalous_b]

The one play I saw him on, he didn't know his assignment and hicks was telling at him pre snap

Sent from my motorola edge plus using Tapatalk

Yeah I know the exact play you are talking about.

That's kind of a reach though, because Chandler Jones was lined up on the wrong side - and obviously Simmons is supposed to line up opposite of him. It seemed like most of the defense was flipped at the start. I wouldn't put too much into that moment tbh.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think that is more of your eyes playing tricks on you. Plus - most of the plays Simmons has been on the field have gone to the opposite side of him.

If you think he looks slow - here's a tweet for you:

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Bigger guys just a look a little different when they're moving fast.

That's why I still say if he doesn't pan out at LB, move him to TE

 

[scandalous_b]

That's why I still say if he doesn't pan out at LB, move him to TE

No - if he doesn't pan out, the organization needs to take a long hard look at itself to figure out how they managed to mangle the development of such a unique talent.

There's no reason a guy his size that could be left out on island in coverage against the likes of Jerry Jeudy, Henry Ruggs, Jaylen Waddle, Justin Jefferson, KJ Hill, etc. in college for a winning program, and not have some level of success in the NFL.

You can't screw this one up.

 

[Russ Smith]

No - if he doesn't pan out, the organization needs to take a long hard look at itself to figure out how they managed to mangle the development of such a unique talent.

There's no reason a guy his size that could be left out on island in coverage against the likes of Jerry Jeudy, Henry Ruggs, Jaylen Waddle, Justin Jefferson, KJ Hill, etc. in college for a winning program, and not have some level of success in the NFL.

You can't screw this one up.

Sure I'm just saying if he doesn't pan out on defense, maybe he lacks the ability to think on his feet who knows it's too early. But IF he doesn't pan out on defense, move him to TE.

I think he WiLL work out on defense eventually.

 

[football karma]

maybe he lacks the ability to think on his feet

this was a guy who played multiple positions with multiple responsibilities in college ....... Brent Venebles is a smart DC. I dont think Clemson does that if they had issues with him not being able to process.

i think with CJ down, they need to move to more of a 4-3-ish look, with Kennard playing a DE kinda role, and Simmons being a WOLB. Cuts the field down, simplifies the reads, allows him to blitz. Jordan Phillips at DE on Simmons side to help cover him up.

 

[Russ Smith]

this was a guy who played multiple positions with multiple responsibilities in college ....... Brent Venebles is a smart DC. I dont think Clemson does that if they had issues with him not being able to process.

i think with CJ down, they need to move to more of a 4-3-ish look, with Kennard playing a DE kinda role, and Simmons being a WOLB. Cuts the field down, simplifies the reads, allows him to blitz. Jordan Phillips at DE on Simmons side to help cover him up.

To be clear I'm just saying there's a reason he's not playing more and when he's been on the field, he looks lost. Maybe that's the scheme, maybe it's Covid and him not having a normal camp, there's tons of reasons that COULD explain that. One of them is maybe he's having trouble picking things up. We were told repeatedly he wouldn't, that he studies hard, that he gets it etc, but we're not seeing that on the limited snaps.

Maybe he's just nervous because he's getting pulled so quickly. I don't really know I'm just speculating there IS a reason why he's not playing more, he's not an elite 1st round LB that we're just sitting on the bench for no reason.

 

[BigRedRage]

Yeah I know the exact play you are talking about.

That's kind of a reach though, because Chandler Jones was lined up on the wrong side - and obviously Simmons is supposed to line up opposite of him. It seemed like most of the defense was flipped at the start. I wouldn't put too much into that moment tbh.

Not making claims to reach for, just an observation

Sent from my motorola edge plus using Tapatalk

 

[football karma]

To be clear I'm just saying there's a reason he's not playing more and when he's been on the field, he looks lost.

i do agree with that

part of the limited playing is maybe poor fundamentals --- he was so gifted that in college he could get away with some bad habits. In the NFL, he cant. I also think he needs to get stronger.

 

[Chopper0080]

Lol. Yet, had we not drafted him, you’d be trashing Keim and calling for him to be fired for not building depth. You guys crack me up.

I wanted one of the tackles so this is flat out incorrect. Maybe prior to stating what someone would have done you pull the threads to see what they actually said at the time. The other option would be to not make assumptions or just keep from stating things you don't actually want to look up.