What happened to Jared Dudley?

[sunsfan88]

While everyone was saying that Gortat would suck without Nash, I think the player who has suffered most without Nash is Dudley.

The guy has been complete trash this season. No, that's an understatement. His game used to be about playing good defense, hustling, showing heart, making high IQ plays and knocking down 3s. He doesn't do any of those things anymore.

He used to be like PJ Tucker is for us now. Except a better shooter. And now instead he's turned into Vince Carter (when he was with us)

Its like he doesn't care. I think if we were to trade him, we can get at least 1st rd pick for him.

But it may be too early to get rid of Duds. He could still turn it around.

Thoughts?

 

[BC867]

While everyone was saying that Gortat would suck without Nash, I think the player who has suffered most without Nash is Dudley.

The guy has been complete trash this season. No, that's an understatement. His game used to be about playing good defense, hustling, showing heart, making high IQ plays and knocking down 3s. He doesn't do any of those things anymore.

He used to be like PJ Tucker is for us now. Except a better shooter. And now instead he's turned into Vince Carter (when he was with us)

Its like he doesn't care. I think if we were to trade him, we can get at least 1st rd pick for him.

But it may be too early to get rid of Duds. He could still turn it around.

Thoughts?

My first thought is that naming Dudley and O'Neal co-captains was a mistake. It might have put too much pressure on Duds. It certainly didn't seem to put any pressure on O'Neal, who has disappeared without an explanation. And when he was reinstated for the last game, he didn't suit up.

Overall, the Suns are nine games into trying to find its identity after the Nash years and it has taken its toll on just about everyone on the team. Except for Dragic, there is a lot of inconsistency.

 

[AzStevenCal]

While everyone was saying that Gortat would suck without Nash, I think the player who has suffered most without Nash is Dudley.

The guy has been complete trash this season. No, that's an understatement. His game used to be about playing good defense, hustling, showing heart, making high IQ plays and knocking down 3s. He doesn't do any of those things anymore.

He used to be like PJ Tucker is for us now. Except a better shooter. And now instead he's turned into Vince Carter (when he was with us)

Its like he doesn't care. I think if we were to trade him, we can get at least 1st rd pick for him.

But it may be too early to get rid of Duds. He could still turn it around.

Thoughts?

I'm not sure he was worth a 1st round pick when he was playing well, it's hard to conceive of him having that kind of value the way he's been playing of late.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

I'm not sure he was worth a 1st round pick when he was playing well, it's hard to conceive of him having that kind of value the way he's been playing of late.

Steve

If Chase Budinger netted a 1st rd pick, I honestly don't see why Dudley can't.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

If Chase Budinger netted a 1st rd pick, I honestly don't see why Dudley can't.

Budinger is a better player?

It was a mistake to resign Dudley. You can't have unathletic players at the 2 and 3 spots in the current NBA.

 

[sunsfan88]

Budinger is a better player?

It was a mistake to resign Dudley. You can't have unathletic players at the 2 and 3 spots in the current NBA.

Based on what?

Dudley outplayed him in almost every statistical category and Budinger couldn't even get the starting job in Houston when Martin was out.

Overall, Budinger is much more athletic but Dudley is a better defender and has much higher IQ.

 

[Cheesebeef]

excuse me for being a little late to the party, but... this team named Jermaine O'Neal one it's captains?!

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Based on what?

Could it be the point per game more in less minutes played...no

Could it be the consisently higher efficiency rating...no

Could it be the ability to get one's own shot off...no

Could it be the better assist to turnover ratio...no

Honestly, I just can't figure out what to base it on.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

The honest answer is what I originally said. Absent of having someone to spoon feed you easy shots, you need some athleticism to play the 1, 2, or 3 in the NBA.

This is why Jared Dudley esque Kendall Marshall can't find his way off the bench. He too has "basketball smarts", which is basketball speak for having a "great personality"

 

[Chris_Sanders]

excuse me for being a little late to the party, but... this team named Jermaine O'Neal one it's captains?!

Yep

F/C 20 O'Neal, Jermaine (C) 83 !6 ft 11 in (2.11 m) 255 lb (116 kg) 1978–10–13 Eau Claire HS (SC)

It should be our two best players (Dragic and Gortat) but instead it is a has been and a never was

 

[Errntknght]

I think that Duds is not entirely comfortable as the starting SG - for one thing it means that he only plays SG now whereas he used to be moved around to matchups where he had some kind of advantage. Also, he used to moved to tough defensive assignments when some opponent got on a roll - that was often when he shined on D - denying the guy his favorite spot or the ball, or just clinging tight as the situation demanded. I think he thrived on the challenge (and variety) but now its same old thing all game long - and he's frequently at a speed/quickness disadvantage.

His rebounding is down over 50% this year - playing SG next to Goran he probably has backcourt responsibility well over half the time so he can't be sneaking in for offensive rebounds very often or making baseline cuts - two things he excelled at and garnered him many easy shots. He's also defending further from the basket more, which cuts into his defensive rebounds.

He's had the same level of drop in FTA because he really can't drive the hoop and he doesn't get to hang around down in and around the paint much. His FT% is also way down which might just be a statistical fluke - but maybe its a reflection of overall discomfort.

Somehow, Gentry needs to 'promote' him to the bench where his versatility gets full value - he could be the leader of the bench corps, for one thing. Shannon Brown is playing well enough that we wouldn't lose anything with him starting - and he may even up his game further. A nice win-win change.

 

[elindholm]

Somehow, Gentry needs to 'promote' him to the bench where his versatility gets full value - he could be the leader of the bench corps, for one thing. Shannon Brown is playing well enough that we wouldn't lose anything with him starting - and he may even up his game further. A nice win-win change.

I like this idea except that it would leave the second unit in a hopeless situation offensively -- which is to say, even more hopeless than they already are. The current bench unit lives or dies by Brown's ability (or not) to force the issue and make something happen. Take Brown away from that group, and it's just going to be one contested three late in the shot clock after another.

Maybe the solution is to move both Brown and Morris into the starting lineup, and let Dudley and Beasley lead the bench group. Then Beasley would be in a role that he can understand, which is to be the Designated Scorer without needing to think about quality of shot selection, and the other four players could try to get by on cleaning up Beasley's messes or on broken plays.

 

[95pro]

beasley could come off the bench and play the 4 spot

 

[jagu]

Dudley looks slower now than year's past... Too much twitter?

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Maybe the solution is to move both Brown and Morris into the starting lineup, and let Dudley and Beasley lead the bench group. Then Beasley would be in a role that he can understand, which is to be the Designated Scorer without needing to think about quality of shot selection, and the other four players could try to get by on cleaning up Beasley's messes or on broken plays.

Plausible if Morris weren't one of the worst players in the NBA.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

excuse me for being a little late to the party, but... this team named Jermaine O'Neal one it's captains?!

It was O'Neal or Mr ORNG. Pick your poison.

 

[elindholm]

Plausible if Morris weren't one of the worst players in the NBA.

He's in the rotation one way or another, and I guarantee* that Gentry would have rather used him than Beasley in overtime against the Bulls.

*Clarification for those unable to detect rhetoric: No, I cannot literally guarantee what was going on in the mind of an NBA coach I have never met.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

*Clarification for those unable to detect rhetoric: No, I cannot literally guarantee what was going on in the mind of an NBA coach I have never met.

Lies!

 

[Mainstreet]

I agree moving Dudley to the bench is way overdo. Definitely starting Brown would be an improvement. Actually, I'd like the Suns to run a two PG offense with Dragic and Telfair if Garrett or Marshall could run the second unit.

 

[Errntknght]

I like this idea except that it would leave the second unit in a hopeless situation offensively -- which is to say, even more hopeless than they already are. The current bench unit lives or dies by Brown's ability (or not) to force the issue and make something happen. Take Brown away from that group, and it's just going to be one contested three late in the shot clock after another.

Maybe the solution is to move both Brown and Morris into the starting lineup, and let Dudley and Beasley lead the bench group. Then Beasley would be in a role that he can understand, which is to be the Designated Scorer without needing to think about quality of shot selection, and the other four players could try to get by on cleaning up Beasley's messes or on broken plays.

The idea of not having Brown and Beasley on the floor together is certainly a good one - I didn't think of that aspect of it. But Morris (or Scola) having to guard a SF won't fly - PJ Tucker would be much better. Thats comparable to Brown at SG, Duds at SF and Beasley to the second unit - I like Dudley with the bench crew better as a calming force, though.

I was also trying to avoid demoting Beasley because that would likely make him revert - I do think he's trying to be more of a team player now and as long as we're stuck with him we probably should continue the experiment a little longer. (The experiment of treating him like he was a worthwhile basketball player.)

 

[sunsfan88]

I agree moving Dudley to the bench is way overdo. Definitely starting Brown would be an improvement. Actually, I'd like the Suns to run a two PG offense with Dragic and Telfair if Garrett or Marshall could run the second unit.

+10000.

I also want us to start Telfair and move Goran to 2 guard. Let Garrett be the backup PG.

 

[sunsfan88]

Gentry said in his post game that he's finally grew the brain to make changes to the starting lineup. I can't wait to see what they are. I'm gonna guess that Dudley is no longer starter though

I love that a lot of his Tweeter followers are giving him hell for throwing this season Keep em coming guys!

 

[BC867]

Gentry said in his post game that he's finally grew the brain to make changes to the starting lineup. I can't wait to see what they are. I'm gonna guess that Dudley is no longer starter though

Yup, replacing Dudley with Shannon Brown in the starting lineup is a no-brainer.

I don't think, though, that he should go so far as a 2-Point Guard starting lineup, even if he moves Dragic to the "2" alongside Telfair in spurts later in the game.

The question is, did he "grow the brain" to replace Beasley with P.J. Tucker at Small Forward in the starting lineup?

Not only would those two moves give the team a better start and better balance, but it would show that the players who perform at their best consistently are the ones who will be rewarded. That's motivation!

 

[Griffin]

The question is, did he "grow the brain" to replace Beasley with P.J. Tucker at Small Forward in the starting lineup?

Is he even allowed to move Beasley to the bench? This was a big signing for Babby in the off-season. Beasley is making nearly $6M this season. Moving him to the bench almost guarantees that he will not live up to his contract in any foreseeable future if at all. Would Babby allow Gentry to give up on Beasley so soon, putting his own tenure with the Suns in jeopardy?

 

[JS22]

I agree moving Dudley to the bench is way overdo. Definitely starting Brown would be an improvement. Actually, I'd like the Suns to run a two PG offense with Dragic and Telfair if Garrett or Marshall could run the second unit.

I really like Dragic and Telfair together.

Also, I don't know what the hell got into Telfair this year but he has almost become a lockdown defender at the PG spot.