What Have I Got Against Murray?

[Krangodnzr]

and despite all of this, Murray still is "not a grinder".

Says who? I've literally never read ANYTHING questioning his work ethic. You think a kid as good as him doesn't work? Look at how lean and muscular he is.

 

[Krangodnzr]

The Charley Casserly comments are the only comments questioning his work ethic.

 

[dscher]

One tidbit about him not being a grinder and it's gospel. Unless I hear those words from Riley, KK, or anyone who had actually spent time around the kid, then... Pffft. Some guys just naturally have to grind because they don't have the pure talent and athleticism. So it's a way of making up for their shortcomings.. which I'm not saying is a bad thing, obvisouly. Just is what it is. Imo

 

[Chopper0080]

Says who? I've literally never read ANYTHING questioning his work ethic. You think a kid as good as him doesn't work? Look at how lean and muscular he is.

The Josh Weinfuss article on ESPN. The Robert Klemko article on SI. His interview on DP show. The bad reports on lack of execution on the white board.

All of these highlight a guy who is not wired the way great QBs are wired. There is not a perfectionist in there. There is not a guy who is crazy detail oriented. This reeks of a guy who has gotten by on his athletic ability his whole life and never had to put in next level work and study habits.

 

[Chopper0080]

One tidbit about him not being a grinder and it's gospel. Unless I hear those words from Riley, KK, or anyone who had actually spent time around the kid, then... Pffft. Some guys just naturally have to grind because they don't have the pure talent and athleticism. So it's a way of making up for their shortcomings.. which I'm not saying is a bad thing, obvisouly. Just is what it is. Imo

Because his former coach and potentially next coach are going to speak ill of a guy who they are either going to sell as a reason to come to their college or why fans should be excited for a season. Both of these dudes are heavily invested in Kyler being successful.

 

[dscher]

Because his former coach and potentially next coach are going to speak ill of a guy who they are either going to sell as a reason to come to their college or why fans should be excited for a season. Both of these dudes are heavily invested in Kyler being successful.

But there in lies the problem. They are also really the main ones who would know what kind of grinding he did in every facet to prepare. Imo. One guys grind is another's slacking and vice versa. If that makes sense. I just think it's too much pure non sense... Especially this time of year. But it is what it is I suppose..

 

[daves]

The Josh Weinfuss article on ESPN. The Robert Klemko article on SI. His interview on DP show. The bad reports on lack of execution on the white board.

All of these highlight a guy who is not wired the way great QBs are wired. There is not a perfectionist in there. There is not a guy who is crazy detail oriented. This reeks of a guy who has gotten by on his athletic ability his whole life and never had to put in next level work and study habits.

I was interested to see these negative comments, so i searched for the Weinfuss article about Murray on ESPN, and only found this one that describes Murray's grasp of Kingsbury's concepts, and their relationship in glowing terms. Was there another one that denigrated Murray's work ethic?

I didn't see anything in the Klemko article that questions Murray's work ethic, attention to detail, or desire to be the best.

Edit: Oops, i didn't read down far enough.

2) [T]here are certainly questions out there from the people who have met with him about how much football he knows. His athleticism is unquestioned. He can pick stuff up. Yet he’s struggled some with teams on the board. That issue dovetailed with the fact that he didn’t have the rep for being a grinder in college that, by comparison, former teammate Baker Mayfield did. And there was his benching for the first few plays of the Baylor game last fall, a result of Murray being late for a couple 6 a.m. Friday walkthroughs. At other positions, of course, these sorts of things aren’t as big a deal. At quarterback, they usually merit some deeper digging. Maybe with school, and presumably baseball, out of the picture, you’ll get a different Murray. I haven’t heard his aptitude for learning the position questioned. But how much he knows has come up a bunch in my discussions with teams on the quarterbacks in this year’s class.

I'm not sure how accurate the "rep" is for not being a grinder compared to Mayfield... or how much it matters, given that he had a slightly better season than Mayfield in the same offense the very next year. But, this is interesting.

...dave

 

[Krangodnzr]

The Josh Weinfuss article on ESPN. The Robert Klemko article on SI. His interview on DP show. The bad reports on lack of execution on the white board.

All of these highlight a guy who is not wired the way great QBs are wired. There is not a perfectionist in there. There is not a guy who is crazy detail oriented. This reeks of a guy who has gotten by on his athletic ability his whole life and never had to put in next level work and study habits.

Did you see the interview with Klemko? It came off a lot different.

Murray's teammates have raved about him. He's not a loudmouth, brash guy like Baker Mayfield, but he is an assertive leader in the locker room. Murray's fundamentals SHOW he works at his craft. A small guy like him can't get by on physical profile alone. Watch how fast he resets his feet and rarely has a bad throw due to fundamentals. That that is a guy who has honed his craft, and it's one the reasons I turned from a doubter to a fan.

IMO this has been A MASSIVE smokescreen. I don't really think the Cardinals are taking Murray. I think that Rosen was told months ago that he is the QB, but that the team needs to play up the Murray angle to get the most out of the #1 pick. I think it's quite clear the Cardinals are planting info to force the Raiders to trade up. I think Gruden is in love with Murray, he used to be a prototype guy, but he has clearly changed his tune.

 

[Vacard]

I got asked this in a chat room this morning. The answer is nothing. I just don’t think he’s the best pick. There’s a good chance he can play in this league but he’s not as certain to be an impact player as others. In that respect most scouts with whom I’ve talked, have him 7th. I guess I’m thinking BPA. What concerns us?
1. Only 1 year as a college starter
2. Played in a weak league defensively
3. Seemed to prefer baseball but was lured by signing figure. He could go back at any point.
4. He looked okay against Bama but not unstoppable.
5. Height is a realistic concern.
6. Overall size is a durability concern. He’ll be hit more often and harder in the NFL than in college.
7. Limited in scheme to a run/pass offense which increases the chance of injury.
8. Not clear he possesses the advanced skills, like reading defenses, that indicate film study ethic.
There were other minor concerns and issues that applied only to the Cards like cap impact. These, however, were enough to make me stick with Rosen.

1. Trubisky, Vick, Cam Newton had one year in D1 college and are successful in the pros
2. So did Mahomes and Baker
3. Made a tweet saying he was 100 percent dedicated in becoming an NFL qb. He squashed that “I’m going back to baseball rumors”
4. Someone else said Mahomes didn’t okay against Bama. Johny Football threw for 50O yards against them. You can’t use that as a litmus test for good nfl qb’s.
5. Inch shorter than Russel Wilson.
6. He took some big hits. Didn’t we established he’s about the same size as Tiki Barber?
7. Most runs he ran were designed runs.
8. I saw tapes where he was making great reads and scanning the field.

 

[BW52]

1. Trubisky, Vick, Cam Newton had one year in D1 college and are successful in the pros
2. So did Mahomes and Baker
3. Made a tweet saying he was 100 percent dedicated in becoming an NFL qb. He squashed that “I’m going back to baseball rumors”
4. Someone else said Mahomes didn’t okay against Bama. Johny Football threw for 50O yards against them. You can’t use that as a litmus test for good nfl qb’s.
5. Inch shorter than Russel Wilson.
6. He took some big hits. Didn’t we established he’s about the same size as Tiki Barber?
7. Most runs he ran were designed runs.
8. I saw tapes where he was making great reads and scanning the field.

1.How many other 1 year college starters flopped in the NFL? You are hoping for the exception
2.They aren`t 5`10 and small are they? Wilson was sacked 52 times last season..
3.After he saw his daft stock rise he went for the money.
4.Fair enough
5.and a lot skinnier
6.Murray isn`t a Rb..hes a Qb more suprised hits and once again you want the exception..how many 5`10 190 LBs RBS are full time players?
7.and that proves what? Isn`t his so-called legendary elusiveness one of "transcendent qualities according to the Murray fan club?
8.Also tapes where he threw bad passes,interce3ptions,mostly quick outs......

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Harry, your thoughts echo much of what said awhile ago when I was having drinks with some current scouts.

 

[BW52]

Harry, your thoughts echo much of what said awhile ago when I was having drinks with some current scouts.

Anything reflecting poorly on Murray will be ignored/dismissed/scoffed at/ by the murrayites.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It isn't about good or bad...it is about Rosen+Bosa/Williams being better than Murray alone. Because the facts are that Murray comes with more risks than Rosen.

Cmon chopper you’re better than that. They would trade Rosen. If it was Rosen+Bosa/quinnen verses Murray+Clelin/Gary it might be more accurate.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I was interested to see these negative comments, so i searched for the Weinfuss article about Murray on ESPN, and only found this one that describes Murray's grasp of Kingsbury's concepts, and their relationship in glowing terms. Was there another one that denigrated Murray's work ethic?

I didn't see anything in the Klemko article that questions Murray's work ethic, attention to detail, or desire to be the best.

...dave

Thanks Dave. You saved me some time.

 

[Harry]

Huddle report,.I tend to put a bit more credence to OURLADS since the guy is a former college player and College Coach and former NFL scout.
So because it isn`t a glowing testimonial for Murray you give it no credit?

I give ourlands a lot of credit.[/QUOTE]
For what it’s worth last year Ourlads had Rosen as the 2nd best QB (behind Mayfield) and had Rosen as the number 3 pick.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I give ourlands a lot of credit.

For what it’s worth last year Ourlads had Rosen as the 2nd best QB (behind Mayfield) and had Rosen as the number 3 pick.[/QUOTE]
How did that quote get attributed to me?

 

[slinslin]

Your argument is pure vanilla bravo

And your arguments from the get go have made it clear that you are biased against Murray. Little substance to back it up either.

 

[Chopper0080]

Says who? I've literally never read ANYTHING questioning his work ethic. You think a kid as good as him doesn't work? Look at how lean and muscular he is.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/22/mock-draft-kyler-murray-arizona-cardinals-nick-bosa-dwayne-haskins

Here is the article on SI by Albert Breer...so as DJ Khalid says, "anotha one"

 

[Chopper0080]

Cmon chopper you’re better than that. They would trade Rosen. If it was Rosen+Bosa/quinnen verses Murray+Clelin/Gary it might be more accurate.

When the final tally comes out, I will factor it in. UNlike some on this board, I don't believe their trade leverage increases one the draft begins.

 

[ajcardfan]

Murray did better than Mayfield, across the board, when you compare their back to back Heisman seasons. Sure, Murray might bust. Every single pick might bust. But these concerns mean little to me. We have actual data now. Mayfield did very well for a rookie. And, he wasn't as great as Murray.

 

[slinslin]

Again, this is stating that Rosen + anyone else at #1 is better than Murray + a negative cap hit and the normal lost year that comes with having a rookie QB.

If they are both equally risky prospects this is a very valid take.

Recent history tells me that there's no reason you cant win with a rookie QB if he is actually good.

 

[BW52]

And your arguments from the get go have made it clear that you are biased against Murray. Little substance to back it up either
.

Nonsense.People have been making their concerns known since Murray decided to go "all-in" on football after going in "all in" on baseball.
Several people involved with the game have questions concerning Murray's various skills translating to the NFL.Acting like he is without flaws or concerns is flat out ridiculous.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Murray did better than Mayfield, across the board, when you compare their back to back Heisman seasons. Sure, Murray might bust. Every single pick might bust. But these concerns mean little to me. We have actual data now. Mayfield did very well for a rookie. And, he wasn't as great as Murray.

I've seen TV segments comparing last year's to this year's QB class and not one suggested KM going before Mayfield in a draft.

 

[ajcardfan]

I've seen TV segments comparing last year's to this year's QB class and not one suggested KM going before Mayfield in a draft.

Good for you and them. The stats are what the stats are. Take it or leave it. I dont care.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Good for you and them. The stats are what the stats are. Take it or leave it. I dont care.

And the stats tell me that Haskins with a weaker O-line and facing tougher defences threw for 50 TDs.

Take it or leave it. I don't care.