What Have I Got Against Murray?

[Timm Rosenbach]

But it’s not just three years. It’s also three years away from baseball. A team might be willing to throw some money at him but if the A’s a small market ownership team retain his rights they have to maximize their spend and. Dude away from baseball for four years isn’t a good investment for them. $14M for a guy right out of college is another creature entirely. Zero rust. And youth galore.

Ouchy Z Clown. Cap expert, scout, general manager (in football and baseball), political and sports pundit, posting bot. I am fine if you get your wish and get Murray. Just be prepared for a potential disasater

 

[dscher]

@BW52

I didn't say that. I just said it wasn't consensus like you made it seem. If you threw out numerous names I would stamp it consensus.

 

[kerouac9]

I think people sell the talent short. If Murray succeeds it has three of the most difficult pieces to find:
QB
Pass rusher
Shutdown cb

Good chance for rebound.

Also if team trades Rosen there’s similar ability to improve other areas. Arguing otherwise is disingenuous.

If Rosen pans out you can add another prime interior rusher to that group instead of hitting the reset button at QB.

As I said previously, most QBs, regardless of size, have a greater chance at a less than flutie like career. Hell at present Rosen is likely not to reach a flutie like career. But that’s my point, QBs are crapshoot. Have to accept that when drafting one. I think it’s why Keim avoided for so long (lotta good that did him).

Doug Flutie started 10+ games in his career TWICE. He’s had Blaine Gabbert’s career.

 

[BW52]

@BW52

I didn't say that. I just said it wasn't consensus like you made it seem. If you threw out numerous names I would stamp it consensus.

Its a legitimate question from a guy who has actual playing,coaching and scouting experience.Therefore it is a real concern.

 

[dscher]

Its a legitimate question from a guy who has actual playing,coaching and scouting experience.Therefore it is a real concern.

That's great. He's still in the minority. Imo

 

[BW52]

That's great. He's still in the minority. Imo

compared to many talking heads who have no experience in anything except typing a opinion?

 

[dscher]

compared to many talking heads who have no experience in anything except typing a opinion?

Is his judgement and criticism about Murray based on fact or opinion?

 

[Cardiac]

Chiefs drafted Todd Blackledge over Jim Kelly and Dan Marino. Not having a Quarterback until Joe Montana came to town for a few years set them back a decade. As for more recently: Ask the Redskins how they feel about that Robert Griffin trade up?

Come on now, the Redskins suck because Snyder is an idiot and keeps making goofy decisions. RG3 isn't the reason that team has sucked for a decade. Plus it was a trade up and the Cards wouldn't be trading up to get Murray.

I want us to trade down or pick our next Q.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ouchy Z Clown. Cap expert, scout, general manager (in football and baseball), political and sports pundit, posting bot. I am fine if you get your wish and get Murray. Just be prepared for a potential disasater

This sounds like you want the team to fail just to say “I told you so!” Kinda lame.

I’ve always been happy to eat crow when I’ve been wrong bc it’s meant the cards exceeded my expectations. Seems like you’ll be kissed if Murray is good. Again, kinda lame.

Again try reading comprehension . . . I don’t know what my “wish” is still. I’m just not foaming at the mouth against any of these players like you are.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

This sounds like you want the team to fail just to say “I told you so!” Kinda lame.

I’ve always been happy to eat crow when I’ve been wrong bc it’s meant the cards exceeded my expectations. Seems like you’ll be kissed if Murray is good. Again, kinda lame.

Again try reading comprehension . . . I don’t know what my “wish” is still. I’m just not foaming at the mouth against any of these players like you are.

Like I said, I would be fine with Bosa, Quinnen Williams, or Kyler Murray. But if Bidwill and his buffoon of a General Manager select Murray and it doesn’t work out: It is on them. Too many red flags. I would rather see Murray than Josh Allen. That would result in me foaming at the mouth

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Like I said, I would be fine with Bosa, Quinnen Williams, or Kyler Murray. But if Bidwill and his buffoon of a General Manager select Murray and it doesn’t work out: It is on them. Too many red flags. I would rather see Murray than Josh Allen. That would result in me foaming at the mouth

Interesting. You’ve argued so vociferously against Murray.

 

[Shane]

. I don’t know what my “wish” is still.

You sure spend an awful lot of time debating the anti Murray crowd. Coming up with counter arguments to all the glaring red flags Murray has all around him to not have a wish.... lol

 

[BW52]

Is his judgement and criticism about Murray based on fact or opinion?

Considering he makes his opinion based on watching numerous game films and draws his conclusions from watching numerous game films I think its based on what he saw.Since he puts his name and reputation on the line every year and has for 30 plus years and that is how he makes his living now I would say he knows what he is talking about.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You sure spend an awful lot of time debating the anti Murray crowd. Coming up with counter arguments to all the glaring red flags Murray has all around him to not have a wish.... lol

No, I’ve clearly stated that I recognize the legit red flags such as his height, baseball, one year wonder. I just think many of those arguing against him overinflate those arguments. I also think many of the other arguments are terrible like denigrating his play bc he played at a top program (and Bosa and quinnen didn’t?) or against bad defenses (and Rosen didn’t?). I tend find myself drawn to argue against stupid arguments. It’s a balance thing with me. Ask Crimson, I got into it pretty good against Murray at the onset of the draft talk because I thought the Heisman argument was a bad one. But the overwhelming number of dumb arguments have been on the side of anti-Murray so I’m compelled to respond. I just can’t stand stupidity. Not calling the anti-Murray crowd stupid. As I said I think there are legit considerations. Calling a lot of the arguments (like - don’t know how he would do in a bad situation bc he went 57-3) stupid.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

You sure spend an awful lot of time debating the anti Murray crowd. Coming up with counter arguments to all the glaring red flags Murray has all around him to not have a wish.... lol

I had a bunch of my old friends from college come back to town and three of them are Card fans from the Valley. Die Hards from the SDS era. None of us could understand the possibility of drafting Murray. It doesn’t make any sense. I don’t think that management is going to go against the grain. And I see it on here. The Murray crowd is very vocal, but they don’t make up the majority. I would be shocked if Bidwill allows the organization to draft a guy with so many red flags. He isn’t going to throw his reputation away for Kyler Murray. I believe in the Church of What’s Happening Now and Kyler isn’t showing me much right now. Nothing but potential liability

 

[BW52]

No, I’ve clearly stated that I recognize the legit red flags such as his height, baseball, one year wonder. I just think many of those arguing against him overinflate those arguments. I also think many of the other arguments are terrible like denigrating his play bc he played at a top program (and Bosa and quinnen didn’t?) or against bad defenses (and Rosen didn’t?). I tend find myself drawn to argue against stupid arguments. It’s a balance thing with me. Ask Crimson, I got into it pretty good against Murray at the onset of the draft talk because I thought the Heisman argument was a bad one. But the overwhelming number of dumb arguments have been on the side of anti-Murray so I’m compelled to respond. I just can’t stand stupidity. Not calling the anti-Murray crowd stupid. As I said I think there are legit considerations. Calling a lot of the arguments (like - don’t know how he would do in a bad situation bc he went 57-3) stupid.

Wondering how Murray will handle adversity is stupid? Once again your arrogance is showing Ouchie.You question views you decided are dumb or stupid and why should your opinion matter anymore than anyone else??YOU aren`t the great and powerful OZ who decides the legitimacy of opinions or questions.

 

[dscher]

Considering he makes his opinion based on watching numerous game films and draws his conclusions from watching numerous game films I think its based on what he saw.Since he puts his name and reputation on the line every year and has for 30 plus years and that is how he makes his living now I would say he knows what he is talking about.

But still his opinion. I'm not trying to insinuate he is not solid at his job. But it's still only one viewpoint.. I think by now, we would be hearing about all the potential flaws by now from other scouts if there were anything substantial that you have expressed.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Wondering how Murray will handle adversity is stupid? Once again your arrogance is showing Ouchie.You question views you decided are dumb or stupid and why should your opinion matter anymore than anyone else??YOU aren`t the great and powerful OZ who decides the legitimacy of opinions or questions.

In my head I am. You can discard what I say. But I’ll double down on that comment - punishing a candidate for achieving success is imo dumb. If you had a QB with great physical talents that went undefeated in four years of college would you argue it’s a bad thing becasue you don’t know if he’s handle adversity well? I mean that’s taking it to the extreme, but kinda proves my point doesn’t it?

 

[BW52]

But still his opinion. I'm not trying to insinuate he is not solid at his job. But it's still only one viewpoint.. I think by now, we would be hearing about all the potential flaws by now from other scouts if there were anything substantial that you have expressed.

And you know all the scouting reports by heart?

 

[Solar7]

But still his opinion. I'm not trying to insinuate he is not solid at his job. But it's still only one viewpoint.. I think by now, we would be hearing about all the potential flaws by now from other scouts if there were anything substantial that you have expressed.

Most of the overall ranks don't have Murray at #1. I think that's enough of an indictment of some of these issues.

He's ending up in mocks at #1 because of what people think will happen, not their grade on him.

This is why it feels like a panic move, if we make it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Most of the overall ranks don't have Murray at #1. I think that's enough of an indictment of some of these issues.

He's ending up in mocks at #1 because of what people think will happen, not their grade on him.

This is why it feels like a panic move, if we make it.

Most QBs drafted #1 in their drafts haven’t been rated as the best talent either. But the position elevates where they are drafted. It’s basically if you’re a QB that’s within the top 5-8 or so most talented players there’s a chance you’ll go #1. I mean QBs are taken a disproportionate amount of times at #1 - and you can’t tell me that they are the most talented that proportion of time.

 

[dscher]

And you know all the scouting reports by heart?

Don't divert like a politician. Lol. My point was my point..sample size my friend.

And no, I don't have them memorized by heart.. but I've seen enough and read enough from tons of different sources and I'm not convinced until multiple eyeballs confirm what I'm seeing as well.

 

[dscher]

Most of the overall ranks don't have Murray at #1. I think that's enough of an indictment of some of these issues.

He's ending up in mocks at #1 because of what people think will happen, not their grade on him.

This is why it feels like a panic move, if we make it.

Solid take. Don't agree. But good take.

 

[BW52]

In my head I am. You can discard what I say. But I’ll double down on that comment - punishing a candidate for achieving success is imo dumb. If you had a QB with great physical talents that went undefeated in four years of college would you argue it’s a bad thing becasue you don’t know if he’s handle adversity well? I mean that’s taking it to the extreme, but kinda proves my point doesn’t it?

I generally enjoy your comments but for a QB who has never played without a talented supporting cast I would want to know how he could handle probably losing more games in a month than he did in college as a starter.To me that's a legit question.ITs not punishing anyone its wondering how he would hjandle a situation he likely never faced before.Can he possibly stay cool and level-headed in the midst of a 3 or 4 game losing streak...that a real question and a concern.IF you think that's dumb that's your opinion and your business .IDK.

 

[Solar7]

Most QBs drafted #1 in their drafts haven’t been rated as the best talent either. But the position elevates where they are drafted. It’s basically if you’re a QB that’s within the top 5-8 or so most talented players there’s a chance you’ll go #1. I mean QBs are taken a disproportionate amount of times at #1 - and you can’t tell me that they are the most talented that proportion of time.

"Most?" That's gotta be a misnomer.

I'll give you that QB has a premium because of the importance, but a lot of time, that importance pushes a guy to the top of the rankings. Honestly, PFF is pretty much the only one with Murray on top that I've seen. I laugh when I see Murray outside of the top 10 in some rankings though, knowing we're going to reach for him because of KK's man-crush.