What i Think

[Mitch]

1. The Cardinals decided they would pay Kolb the $7M even if he was to be the backup to start---figuring they might get lucky at some point.

2. They are NOT going to cut Kolb.

3. They are higher on Lindley than they ever have been with Skelton.

4. The plays for Skelton were much more QB friendly.

5. Repeat: Whisenhunt has no clue as to what it takes to build a QB's confidence.

6. Whisenhunt is the biggest problem for the offense.

7. William Powell---when he made that classic stop and go move for the TD, just raced up to not only making the roster, but factoring into playing time.

8. Powell---is sneaky tough between the tackles as well and at the goal-line.

9. The Cardinals' designated ST aces ALL stick: Adams, LSH. Sherman, Bethel.

10. We need to give Batiste some slack---he's been yo-yoed between RG, RT and now LT. Let him settle in at a position and then let's see what he can do.

11. Typical Cardinals to spend the game ignoring the two most promising young WR and TE, as they phased out Byrd and Skelton on this game.

12. Reggie Walker---they have plans for this kid.

13. Stewart Bradley has already won the Mike job.

14. Jamell Fleming is the RCB, period.

15. David Carter is the next big contract waiting to happen on the d-line.

16. Blake Gideon and Larry Parker---are going to make the roster---they (the coaches and the players) will find a way.

17. Zastudil is outstanding.

18. We CAN run the ball---and Skelton is just the guy to set the table.

19. Our STs---could well be the BEST in the NFL.

20. Justin Bethel on one side and PP on the other of the FG block team = unfreaking beatable.

21. Senio Kelemete is going to be starting by mid-season.

22. The youth on this team is more talented than the aging vets.

 

[az1965]

20. Justin Bethel on one side and PP on the other of the FG block team = unfreaking beatable.

and CC maning the middle... sick!

 

[gmabel830]

11. Typical Cardinals to spend the game ignoring the two most promising young WR and TE, as they phased out Byrd and Skelton on this game.

It was tough not to phase them out of the game, as I believe they both missed the game due to injury. CORRECTION - Byrd was out, Skelton was not out (seems like they wanted to see a lot of Housler though).

 

[gmabel830]

One other thought -- I just don't see a way that Adams, Bethel, Gideon, and Parker can all make the roster with the other vets who are going to make the team -- especially the last two. Would have no issues with those two making the practice squad though. Otherwise, great observations/thoughts, as usual.

 

[THESMEL]

I think we ran 30 times and passed 19 times abnd won 31 to 27! The Bean and Rwill can carry this team with Big red Skelton passing effectively to great WR's.

 

[gmabel830]

I think we ran 30 times and passed 19 times abnd won 31 to 27! The Bean and Rwill can carry this team with Big red Skelton passing effectively to great WR's.

*IF* Beanie/Williams can stay healthy (and to me that's still a HUGE if), I agree with you that at this point our best bet is probably to be a run first team with Skelton trying to be in a "Alex Smith from last year" kind of role and hopefully getting the ball down field to Fitz a couple of times per game on play action/passing plays.

 

[daves]

1. The Cardinals decided they would pay Kolb the $7M even if he was to be the backup to start---figuring they might get lucky at some point.

That makes no sense. You don't pay the $7M unless you expect Kolb to play well enough to win the starting job.

3. They are higher on Lindley than they ever have been with Skelton.

On what in the world do you base this?? The Cardinals traded into the 5th round to pick Skelton; they waited for the 6th to draft Lindley. Skelton has proven capable of winning NFL games. So far this preseason, Skelton has a 77 passer rating against mostly first string defenses; Lindley has a 49 rating against 3rd and 4th stringers. In college, Skelton was more accurate (FWIW!) than Lindley.

4. The plays for Skelton were much more QB friendly.

5. Repeat: Whisenhunt has no clue as to what it takes to build a QB's confidence.

These two statements certainly seem contradictory.

Whisenhunt may not be good at scouting QBs, but as far as building their confidence... he certainly helped build Warner's, seems to be doing a good job with Skelton and Lindley, and heck even UDFA Max Hall was somehow imbued with enough confidence to win a game.

It was recently confirmed that Leinart, despite all of Whisenhunt's supportive public statements that he was working hard, in fact never bothered to put in the time to reach his potential. Should Whis have babied him to "build his confidence"? Eventually Whis made it clear that he'd have to compete for his job, but that didn't seem to be sufficient to get Leinart's attention. Seems as though it took being cut and seeing how little interest there was in his services for him to realize that he needed to start getting serious about football.

Kolb certainly talks as though he's confident - but Whisenhunt needs to know whether he'll play with confidence when he's put in a difficult situation. He's in his 6th year, he certainly shouldn't need to be given easy plays to run at this stage of his career just to build his confidence.

Heck, even Bartel and St. Pierre seemed to have plenty of confidence and probably reached their maximum potentials.

So exactly whose confidence did Whisenhunt fail to build???

6. Whisenhunt is the biggest problem for the offense.

Oh, brother!

...dave

 

[Cardiac]

That makes no sense. You don't pay the $7M unless you expect Kolb to play well enough to win the starting job.



On what in the world do you base this?? The Cardinals traded into the 5th round to pick Skelton; they waited for the 6th to draft Lindley. Skelton has proven capable of winning NFL games. So far this preseason, Skelton has a 77 passer rating against mostly first string defenses; Lindley has a 49 rating against 3rd and 4th stringers. In college, Skelton was more accurate (FWIW!) than Lindley.



These two statements certainly seem contradictory.

Whisenhunt may not be good at scouting QBs, but as far as building their confidence... he certainly helped build Warner's, seems to be doing a good job with Skelton and Lindley, and heck even UDFA Max Hall was somehow imbued with enough confidence to win a game.

It was recently confirmed that Leinart, despite all of Whisenhunt's supportive public statements that he was working hard, in fact never bothered to put in the time to reach his potential. Should Whis have babied him to "build his confidence"? Eventually Whis made it clear that he'd have to compete for his job, but that didn't seem to be sufficient to get Leinart's attention. Seems as though it took being cut and seeing how little interest there was in his services for him to realize that he needed to start getting serious about football.

Kolb certainly talks as though he's confident - but Whisenhunt needs to know whether he'll play with confidence when he's put in a difficult situation. He's in his 6th year, he certainly shouldn't need to be given easy plays to run at this stage of his career just to build his confidence.

Heck, even Bartel and St. Pierre seemed to have plenty of confidence and probably reached their maximum potentials.

So exactly whose confidence did Whisenhunt fail to build???



Oh, brother!

...dave

Thanks for saving me the time and effort.

There are a group of posters who feel that Whiz doesn't handle the players well. The effidence the contrary is staggering but people see what they want to see I guess.

I would bet my manhood that if asked privately the VAST majority (if not all) of players would say they LOVE playing for Whiz.

 

[Garthshort]

Mitch, as much as I like him, and I like him better than Jefferson, I don't see Parker making the "53" and hope we can get him to the PS. Gideon has a better chance of sticking. And I'm pretty sure that Adams is GONE, and possibly in the first wave of cuts in order to give him a better chance to find another team. Just a guess on my part.

Also, Mitch a question. With the way Williams looked on Friday, if Beanie plays well against the Titans, do you see any chance of using Beanie as trade bait for a LT? And if so, what team/tackle would you target? No team will give up a decent starter for a RB, but I'm sure a quality backup might be had. Of course that's how we got KK. I guess it's possible that we become a running (60/40 or 70/30) team. Like the Jets used to say, Ground and Pound. And if one of our young linemen (Kelemete??) develops by midseason, we can then open up the passing game.

 

[Goldfield]

I think Adams is gone.

 

[slanidrac16]

I think Kolb is a square peg trying to fit in a round hole.

He needs to be in a west coast type offense. He should NEVER be asked to take a 7 step drop. He seems totaly confused in this offense. He does not posess a pocket pressence. He always seems to throw the ball one or two second later than he should and all it takes to knock him down is a shove.

Skelton is better suited to run this offense. But if something happens to him this coaching staff had better be prepared to do a 180 on philosophy and play calling or we will be seeing a lot of what we saw in the first quarter against the Raiders.

 

[JeffGollin]

I just finished watching the rebroadcast. Some observations:

- Kolb didn't look as bad as I thought he would (but Skelton's beginning to pull away).

- Although you can see flashes of Lindley's upside, that fumble should convince us all that he'll need the better part of a year (maybe more) before he's ready for prime-time.

- Beware of snap-judgments based on one game. I would have cut last week's Reggie Walker on the spot. This week's Reggie Walker looked better than both Bradley and DWash.

-And while we're at it, what about Quan S at ILB - the more he plays, the more he looks like he belongs.

- Gideon sure didn't look like a feather-weight tackler early in the 4Q when he stood up that dude in an inside gap.

- If you're a bit nervous about the durability of Ryan Williams and LSH, you might want to choose Powell over Smith. But if you feel Smith is our only inside the tackles power option and blitz picker-upper, well...er...ech. (Note - Powell did show that he can run with a low-pad level and enough vision to pick up short and goal line yardage anyway).

- Bethel could win 2 - 3 games for us this season.

- Liked a Potter run block when he was in at LT late in the game.

- I'm still waiting for Gay to show us something.

- Both flags on Flemming bordered on lame. He looks - right now - like he wouldn't embarrass us and, if he continues to improve, could be our starter as early as Games 4 - 6.

- Early in the game, was A-Dub playing some sort of inverted Cloud/Sky scheme where the safeties move up and the corners fall back?

- While I am concerned about Levi's injury, I'm not suicidal - I'm no OL coach, and maybe I'm naiive, but I don't feel the drop-off in production from Levi to the other OT's will be as much as some think (i.e. Levi wasn't exactly Anthony Munoz out there).

Bottom line - 1 good game (out of 3). Let's see us go out there and"do it again" vs. Tennessee.

 

[seesred]

Many of us believe that Skelton is our starting QB. I Do! After reading Whiz's comments I think we might be getting set up. He made excuses for all but one sack. He said field position was part of the problem and this weeks game will be important for him.

When will this all go away/ It's like a nightmare. I feel like someone is coming to lie to me about the dire need for KK...AHHHHH!

GBR
40

 

[seesred]

On top of all this Whiz agrees that the line after the first series looked like the held back in protction with Kolbe in there. That line itself is an insult to everyone playing the line position. Our center said how could we hold back, we play every play the way it's designed.

GBR
40

 

[Russ Smith]

That makes no sense. You don't pay the $7M unless you expect Kolb to play well enough to win the starting job.



On what in the world do you base this?? The Cardinals traded into the 5th round to pick Skelton; they waited for the 6th to draft Lindley. Skelton has proven capable of winning NFL games. So far this preseason, Skelton has a 77 passer rating against mostly first string defenses; Lindley has a 49 rating against 3rd and 4th stringers. In college, Skelton was more accurate (FWIW!) than Lindley.



These two statements certainly seem contradictory.

Whisenhunt may not be good at scouting QBs, but as far as building their confidence... he certainly helped build Warner's, seems to be doing a good job with Skelton and Lindley, and heck even UDFA Max Hall was somehow imbued with enough confidence to win a game.

It was recently confirmed that Leinart, despite all of Whisenhunt's supportive public statements that he was working hard, in fact never bothered to put in the time to reach his potential. Should Whis have babied him to "build his confidence"? Eventually Whis made it clear that he'd have to compete for his job, but that didn't seem to be sufficient to get Leinart's attention. Seems as though it took being cut and seeing how little interest there was in his services for him to realize that he needed to start getting serious about football.

Kolb certainly talks as though he's confident - but Whisenhunt needs to know whether he'll play with confidence when he's put in a difficult situation. He's in his 6th year, he certainly shouldn't need to be given easy plays to run at this stage of his career just to build his confidence.

Heck, even Bartel and St. Pierre seemed to have plenty of confidence and probably reached their maximum potentials.

So exactly whose confidence did Whisenhunt fail to build???



Oh, brother!

...dave

IF you listened to the Raiders annoucners they talked about exactly what you said. How Leinart admitted to them it wasn't until he got to Houston and saw how hard Schaub worked that he finally got what Warner and the Cards told him in arizona, how hard an NFL starting QB has to work.

HE said when he got to Houston he was very messed up mentally, getting cut really hurt and he was completely stunned at how it all ended up that nobody traded for him from the Cards and teams weren't lining up to sign him.

He eventually got it and by the end he was winning contests they had that tested the knowledge of the offense by the QB's. That he finally got there under Kubiak what the Cards had tried to teach him in Arizona.

They seemed to be implying that looking back Matt now realizes it was him not Whiz that was his problem in Arizona.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

IF you listened to the Raiders annoucners they talked about exactly what you said. How Leinart admitted to them it wasn't until he got to Houston and saw how hard Schaub worked that he finally got what Warner and the Cards told him in arizona, how hard an NFL starting QB has to work.

HE said when he got to Houston he was very messed up mentally, getting cut really hurt and he was completely stunned at how it all ended up that nobody traded for him from the Cards and teams weren't lining up to sign him.

He eventually got it and by the end he was winning contests they had that tested the knowledge of the offense by the QB's. That he finally got there under Kubiak what the Cards had tried to teach him in Arizona.

They seemed to be implying that looking back Matt now realizes it was him not Whiz that was his problem in Arizona.

Leinart got WAY too used to being the center of attention and adoration in high school and college. (I'm not sure people outside of So Cal understand the absolute veneration USC players are given. It's other-worldly.)

He came here and fate handed him a coach who said, "I'm not here to kiss your feet. You are here to prove you know how to play." and he didn't know how to cope with that. He certainly never had to before. Add in all his teammates who are All That themselves and expect him to learn the playbook and lead the team and.... it's not going to be pretty. It wasn't pretty.

Maybe Matty needed to be swatted on the nose a long time ago to learn it took something extra to make it in the NFL.

 

[Shane]

IF you listened to the Raiders annoucners they talked about exactly what you said. How Leinart admitted to them it wasn't until he got to Houston and saw how hard Schaub worked that he finally got what Warner and the Cards told him in arizona, how hard an NFL starting QB has to work.

HE said when he got to Houston he was very messed up mentally, getting cut really hurt and he was completely stunned at how it all ended up that nobody traded for him from the Cards and teams weren't lining up to sign him.

He eventually got it and by the end he was winning contests they had that tested the knowledge of the offense by the QB's. That he finally got there under Kubiak what the Cards had tried to teach him in Arizona.

They seemed to be implying that looking back Matt now realizes it was him not Whiz that was his problem in Arizona.

Sounds about right! All the Leinart Jockers around here will tell you it was Whiz that ruined him though! When it seems Leinart even admits he wasnt doing the things he should have been doing! Another feather in the Whiz cap IMO.

 

[daves]

IF you listened to the Raiders annoucners they talked about exactly what you said. How Leinart admitted to them it wasn't until he got to Houston and saw how hard Schaub worked that he finally got what Warner and the Cards told him in arizona, how hard an NFL starting QB has to work.

HE said when he got to Houston he was very messed up mentally, getting cut really hurt and he was completely stunned at how it all ended up that nobody traded for him from the Cards and teams weren't lining up to sign him.

He eventually got it and by the end he was winning contests they had that tested the knowledge of the offense by the QB's. That he finally got there under Kubiak what the Cards had tried to teach him in Arizona.

They seemed to be implying that looking back Matt now realizes it was him not Whiz that was his problem in Arizona.

Yep, i heard it and even though it confirmed many of the rumors and impressions many people already had, i had never heard it directly from a credible source, much less repeated as an admission directly from Leinart. I was sufficiently pissed off to go back and replay it enough times to transcribe exactly what was said, word-for-word, in this post:
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2670420&postcount=22

...dave

 

[WildBB]

14. Jamell Fleming is the RCB, period.

 

[Shane]

Yep, i heard it and even though it confirmed many of the rumors and impressions many people already had, i had never heard it directly from a credible source, much less repeated as an admission directly from Leinart. I was sufficiently pissed off to go back and replay it enough times to transcribe exactly what was said, word-for-word, in this post:
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2670420&postcount=22

...dave

Good stuff Dave!

 

[WildBB]

-

Beware of snap-judgments based on one game. I would have cut last week's Reggie Walker on the spot. This week's Reggie Walker looked better than both Bradley and DWash.

True.

-And while we're at it, what about Quan S at ILB - the more he plays, the more he looks like he belongs.

He caught my eye this game as well.

 

[NashDishesDimes]

Flemming, bethel, kelemente those may very well be some steals. Props to the scouting staff. Funny how we were all really looking forward to floyd and Massie yet the other guys are the ones really showing up.

 

[Cardiac]

Sounds about right! All the Leinart Jockers around here will tell you it was Whiz that ruined him though! When it seems Leinart even admits he wasnt doing the things he should have been doing! Another feather in the Whiz cap IMO.

IF you listened to the Raiders annoucners they talked about exactly what you said. How Leinart admitted to them it wasn't until he got to Houston and saw how hard Schaub worked that he finally got what Warner and the Cards told him in arizona, how hard an NFL starting QB has to work.

HE said when he got to Houston he was very messed up mentally, getting cut really hurt and he was completely stunned at how it all ended up that nobody traded for him from the Cards and teams weren't lining up to sign him.

He eventually got it and by the end he was winning contests they had that tested the knowledge of the offense by the QB's. That he finally got there under Kubiak what the Cards had tried to teach him in Arizona.

They seemed to be implying that looking back Matt now realizes it was him not Whiz that was his problem in Arizona.

Leinart got WAY too used to being the center of attention and adoration in high school and college. (I'm not sure people outside of So Cal understand the absolute veneration USC players are given. It's other-worldly.)

He came here and fate handed him a coach who said, "I'm not here to kiss your feet. You are here to prove you know how to play." and he didn't know how to cope with that. He certainly never had to before. Add in all his teammates who are All That themselves and expect him to learn the playbook and lead the team and.... it's not going to be pretty. It wasn't pretty.

Maybe Matty needed to be swatted on the nose a long time ago to learn it took something extra to make it in the NFL.

Yep, i heard it and even though it confirmed many of the rumors and impressions many people already had, i had never heard it directly from a credible source, much less repeated as an admission directly from Leinart. I was sufficiently pissed off to go back and replay it enough times to transcribe exactly what was said, word-for-word, in this post:
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2670420&postcount=22

...dave

These quotes are from some of more tenured/respected/rational posters and I'll hitch my wagon to them without hesitation.

I guess it' more fun to blame Whiz or easier but that doesn't mean it's right or even makes any sense.

A group of us knew that there had to be something going on behind the scenes that we weren't (and shouldn't be) privy to.

The possible mistake by Whiz and company was not shining the bright light on ML prior to Warner's retirement. Once again I think there is more to that story than any of us are aware of.

I get why some fans like to blame the HC. Wouldn't it be great if the reason the team stank up a game was not because of 20 to 50 players who need to be replaced but simply the HC. That's such a quicker resolution to a team sucking that drafting and finding numerous FA's.

Now sometimes all it does take a new HC and we all know that because......WE SAW IT FIRST HAND WHEN WHIZ REPLACED GREEN.

 

[Russ Smith]

Leinart got WAY too used to being the center of attention and adoration in high school and college. (I'm not sure people outside of So Cal understand the absolute veneration USC players are given. It's other-worldly.)

He came here and fate handed him a coach who said, "I'm not here to kiss your feet. You are here to prove you know how to play." and he didn't know how to cope with that. He certainly never had to before. Add in all his teammates who are All That themselves and expect him to learn the playbook and lead the team and.... it's not going to be pretty. It wasn't pretty.

Maybe Matty needed to be swatted on the nose a long time ago to learn it took something extra to make it in the NFL.

Kind of but Matt also had some issues coming up that you would have thought tested him. Matt was a phenom baseball pitcher as a kid but an arm injury pushed him to football. Basically the doctors told him the throwing motion is different if you keep pitching you'll blow your arm out.

Had a great HS football career but when he got to USC he was buried on the depth chart. Stuck it out and eventually became a star.

I always assumed that would be his path with the Cards, face some adversity, learn from it, excel.

Just didn't realize how different it was, at USC they had an NFL prospect at just about every position on offense. They might not have all been stars but they out talented most teams and Matt looked much better than it turns out he really is. And he didn't work hard as you said because that time at USC conditioned him to think he was better than he really is.

I was so happy when we drafted him, huge disappointment.

 

[Russ Smith]

Yep, i heard it and even though it confirmed many of the rumors and impressions many people already had, i had never heard it directly from a credible source, much less repeated as an admission directly from Leinart. I was sufficiently pissed off to go back and replay it enough times to transcribe exactly what was said, word-for-word, in this post:
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2670420&postcount=22

...dave

Thanks Dave that's what I was talking about but better to have the exact words than my interpretation.

I had the same reaction you did I was pissed off that Matt didn't work harder here.