What if.... Packers had gone for 2 points?

Azlen

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Fivethirtyeight did an article today on the decision and in the article say that using basic probabilities the right decision is to go for the 2 point conversion.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-away-with-crimes-against-middle-school-math/

His probabilities were about 49% in converting the 2 point conversion and about 41% for the chance to win in OT.

In his summary he said
"Naturally, these educated guess assumptions could be off in various respects, but that 8 percentage point gap is hard to overcome. When people who argue that there’s too much uncertainty to buck the status quo actually list the variables they have in mind (unfortunately, they often don’t), they tend to overestimate the amount that situation-specific variables affect the balance of probabilities. And the variables cited often don’t even cut the way they think they do. For example: In this case, an oft-cited factor is that the Packers’ receiving corps was weakened by injuries, including the loss of Randall Cobb earlier in the game. But, as I discussed in the footnotes, anything that makes the Packers weaker relative to the Cardinals is likely to hurt their chances in overtime more than their chances of converting the 2-point try. Thus, our best (and perhaps slightly conservative) estimate is that the Packers cost themselves about 7.9 percent of a win by kicking rather than going for two, and this whole thing could have been avoided if NFL coaches took the time to sit down and learn some basic percentages."
 

dreamcastrocks

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Fivethirtyeight did an article today on the decision and in the article say that using basic probabilities the right decision is to go for the 2 point conversion.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-away-with-crimes-against-middle-school-math/

His probabilities were about 49% in converting the 2 point conversion and about 41% for the chance to win in OT.

In his summary he said
"Naturally, these educated guess assumptions could be off in various respects, but that 8 percentage point gap is hard to overcome. When people who argue that there’s too much uncertainty to buck the status quo actually list the variables they have in mind (unfortunately, they often don’t), they tend to overestimate the amount that situation-specific variables affect the balance of probabilities. And the variables cited often don’t even cut the way they think they do. For example: In this case, an oft-cited factor is that the Packers’ receiving corps was weakened by injuries, including the loss of Randall Cobb earlier in the game. But, as I discussed in the footnotes, anything that makes the Packers weaker relative to the Cardinals is likely to hurt their chances in overtime more than their chances of converting the 2-point try. Thus, our best (and perhaps slightly conservative) estimate is that the Packers cost themselves about 7.9 percent of a win by kicking rather than going for two, and this whole thing could have been avoided if NFL coaches took the time to sit down and learn some basic percentages."

I have more of an issue with the KC game. They are saying that they should have gone for 2 down 14 with 1:15 to go if I am reading that correctly. Math or no math, that doesn't make sense.
 

Azlen

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I have more of an issue with the KC game. They are saying that they should have gone for 2 down 14 with 1:15 to go if I am reading that correctly. Math or no math, that doesn't make sense.

The overall premise is the same. The probabilities are better for a road underdog to win by going for 2 points instead of winning the game in OT.
So the question is, if you are down by 2 TD's at the end of a game, does it matter if you go for 2 after the first TD or the second.
If you go for it after the 1st TD and get the 2 points then a regular XP on the 2nd TD gives you the win. If you miss it then you can still go for 2 after the 2nd TD to tie.
If you go for 2 after the 2nd TD and make it then you win the game, If you miss it then you lose.
So going for it and missing after TD1 = still a chance
Going for it and missing it after TD2 = no chance.
That is why going for 2 after the 1st TD gives you a higher probability of winning than going for 2 after the second.
 

football karma

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5 days later, and the thought of this still terrifies me


that said, i think we can all empathize with McCarthy's decision making--

had he not made it-- the convential wisdom was: you just gut punched AZ, and held their offense in check. Palmer was making questionable decisions. Go to OT!!

Only guys like Barnwell and 538 would have questioned not going for 2.

heck-- going for 2 is a decision that makes Arians throwing the ball on 2nd down look absolutely tame by comparison
 

Redheart

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I look into AR eyes, who is pretty fast and nimble, and say, get me two points any way you can.

AR was feeling it just like Larry was...
 

conraddobler

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Well we will never know and that's good because if they'd of tried it and it worked we'd all be talking draft picks now.
 

SissyBoyFloyd

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To me the only way to look at it is: Do you want the game in your hands (with Rogers as your QB) and a chance to win it, or do you want to rely on a coin flip and all the variables that come after that.

Give me the ball on the 2 and a chance to win the game and I will take it every time.
 

Big D

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For me what it boils down to is what do I have a greater chance of converting on the next play - a 33 yard kick or a 2 pt conversion - not necessarily any OT percentages. I think he made the right call.
 

GatorAZ

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The Packers offense and defense were playing well and Crosby is automatic. They made the right choice. Plus AR looked in complete shock after the Hail Mary. Even he was looking to the sky thanking God. They had to come back down to earth.
 

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.................... If he’s not going to question his approach in the face of damning evidence against it, how does he expect to become a better coach? Stubbornness is the antithesis of progress.

Glad we have never had issues with a 'stubborn' coach here in AZ.
:D Poor GB.
 

SoCal Cardfan

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I was praying he wouldn't, my heart rate was already completely elevated, if they had lined up for two, I may not have lived to see the outcome either way.:D
 

Lambeau

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I honestly wonder if we will ever see another SB under Rodgers. We just seem to have the most gutwrenching defeats in the playoffs. It makes you lose faith we will see another one.
 

SoCal Cardfan

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I honestly wonder if we will ever see another SB under Rodgers. We just seem to have the most gutwrenching defeats in the playoffs. It makes you lose faith we will see another one.

:violin:

Should I post some pictures of the GB trophy room to make you feel better?


:D
 

az jam

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I honestly wonder if we will ever see another SB under Rodgers. We just seem to have the most gutwrenching defeats in the playoffs. It makes you lose faith we will see another one.

Totally agree,you should trade him to the Cards for a draft pick. :D
 

conraddobler

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Still doesn't take the pain of choking like my Pack has done the last 4 years in the playoffs.

I think your team is only a few WR's away from dominance again.

Rodgers has 3 to 5 good years left It think who knows and it only takes one good year and some luck to surround yourself with the right crew that he gets comfortable with.

I don't worry about your team I'd take your QB in an instant. Palmer is getting older he's got maybe a couple years left at best.
 

Lambeau

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I think your team is only a few WR's away from dominance again.

Rodgers has 3 to 5 good years left It think who knows and it only takes one good year and some luck to surround yourself with the right crew that he gets comfortable with.

I don't worry about your team I'd take your QB in an instant. Palmer is getting older he's got maybe a couple years left at best.

I hope your right. I just think our window might be closing cause Rodgers is 32 and you guys and Seattle are going to be tough for a long time. I don't see us beating either of you guys. We have to soft of a fitness team and you guys are physical and dominate at the line of scrimmage.
 
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Southpaw

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Still doesn't take the pain of choking like my Pack has done the last 4 years in the playoffs.

Choke?
Don't think I would use that term. When a game is played so closely, maybe a riverboat gambler coach is the answer. M M is not that. He is a stubborn man IMNSHO. Rodgers is the Magic man, and M Mac needs to just turn him loose in every situation. The playoff record wouldn't be any worse if he did.

He gets the Packers in these low scoring situations and one mistake costs the game. I also wonder what this year's team would have done with Jordy in there all year?
 

SO91

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I hope your right. I just think our window might be closing cause Rodgers is 32 and you guys and Seattle are going to be tough for a long time. I don't see us beating either of you guys. We have to soft of a fitness team and you guys are physical and dominate at the line of scrimmage.

What's the Packers cap situation like? You rarely splurge on FAs (Julius Pepper is the only one I can recall), and you develop a lot of unheard of dudes to play important roles for you.
 

conraddobler

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I hope your right. I just think our window might be closing cause Rodgers is 32 and you guys and Seattle are going to be tough for a long time. I don't see us beating either of you guys. We have to soft of a fitness team and you guys are physical and dominate at the line of scrimmage.

Your pass rush is better than ours.

I think Seattle is going to eventually wear down myself. Palmer is getting older he's 6 years older than Rodgers.

You guys have the golden goose and a Marty clone as the coach if you had BA and he had Rodgers he'd be slinging it all over the world.

You just need some WR's and you need a good OC to take over.
 

Lambeau

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I think we have a lot of money to go out and sign someone but Ted Thompson is to cheap to do that. You guys have any FAs available? We need help on our O line bad. You guys saw how bad our O line is first hand.
 

Lambeau

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I remember back in 2003 you guys helped us win the division. Thank you 12 years later for helping us out putting us in the playoffs. You beat Minnesota on the final play of the game to give us a division title.
 

AZ Native

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I remember back in 2003 you guys helped us win the division. Thank you 12 years later for helping us out putting us in the playoffs. You beat Minnesota on the final play of the game to give us a division title.
I was at the game, what an ending!!! Afterwards I saw a clip of Packers fans' live reactions to the play from a bar. I wish I could find that clip, it was classic.
 
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