What is Levi's open market value?

[kerouac9]

What are your thoughts on OT Jonathan Martin?

Don't think he's a LT in the NFL. Could be a guard or a right tackle. The biggest issue with him is that there isn't much tape of him playing LT on an island. In that offense they use a ton of 2TE sets and keep them in to block or at least chip them out. You can't really invest a first-round pick on an OLT that you can't leave out on an island and may not have the lateral speed to get into his drop step to block edge rushers (this is part of Levi's problem, although he's better than you'd think).

Martin might be a less well-regarded version of Jason Smith (currently being considered in another thread).

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

What are your thoughts on OT Jonathan Martin?

I'm in the minority, around here anyway, that thinks Martin will be a good pro LT. However that doesn't mean the Cards couldn't re-sign Levi and draft Martin. Hell, if the Cards re-sign Levi, it opens up their draft board. They could draft another OT in round 1 and they'd have a decent pair to work with going forward. Thye could draft DeCastro and sign a veteran OT like Anthony Collins or James Lee. Or they could draft DeCastro, or whoever they deem the BPA, and pick up a RT prospect in round 3, like Bobby Massie, the kid from Auburn, Datko, Adcock, or any other RT prospect. By letting Levi walk, they are pretty much pigeon-holing themselves, AGAIN, into taking an OT in round 1.

 

[52brandon]

He is our all time single game rushing record holder! Did it on one Leg behind Smushdown Levi Brown! Ha Ha

Do you know how embarressing it is to have Mcfadden go back to the Steelers- Horton says He had to coach the Cardinal out of him- and our big FA signing is cut -and goes back to the SB!

I want to defend whisenstupid, Faneca, Porter, Mcfad? Add up what we paid for those great whisenhunt signings and their production produced!

Then come back and tell me what Levi is and is not worth to SMART NFL TEAMS!

lmao. So because he had one good game, he's now our authority on offensive linemen? Derek Anderson went to a Pro-Bowl, better bring him back too...

 

[Chopper0080]

That's what I've been trying to say for the past six months. While the Cards weren't being serious about extending Calais Campbell, they could've been reducing Brown's salary number and getting him in the $7-$9 million range that would make Chopper (and I) more comfortable going forward.

Instead, we're going to let him reach free agency and miss out on D'Brickashaw Ferguson and instead end up with Mike Brown.

Get excited for another five years of disappointing play! Who are the better players that we're going to pass on in order to reach for Brown?

BIM : Mike Adams

And yes, watching Graves work is terribly painful. It's like they couldn't get the long term deal for Calais done, and because Graves was pondering doing that deal, he also failed to restructure Levi. It's the same situation that we were is with Rolle, we wait until he's owed too much money to justify keeping him, are then surprised that he doesn't want to restructure when he is owed 17 million, and will let him hit the open market as arguably the best player at his position.

Rod Graves is the definition of incompetent.

 

[Chopper0080]

I'm in the minority, around here anyway, that thinks Martin will be a good pro LT. However that doesn't mean the Cards couldn't re-sign Levi and draft Martin. Hell, if the Cards re-sign Levi, it opens up their draft board. They could draft another OT in round 1 and they'd have a decent pair to work with going forward. Thye could draft DeCastro and sign a veteran OT like Anthony Collins or James Lee. Or they could draft DeCastro, or whoever they deem the BPA, and pick up a RT prospect in round 3, like Bobby Massie, the kid from Auburn, Datko, Adcock, or any other RT prospect. By letting Levi walk, they are pretty much pigeon-holing themselves, AGAIN, into taking an OT in round 1.

Which generally spells disaster in the first round.

 

[bg7brd]

Don't think he's a LT in the NFL. Could be a guard or a right tackle. The biggest issue with him is that there isn't much tape of him playing LT on an island. In that offense they use a ton of 2TE sets and keep them in to block or at least chip them out. You can't really invest a first-round pick on an OLT that you can't leave out on an island and may not have the lateral speed to get into his drop step to block edge rushers (this is part of Levi's problem, although he's better than you'd think).

Martin might be a less well-regarded version of Jason Smith (currently being considered in another thread).

I know Drew Boylhart doesn't see him as a LT but Mayock seems to like him.

"Jonathan Martin, to me, (is) the prototypical left tackle," Mayock said in a teleconference today. "Gifted athletically, needs to get a little bit stronger. A lot of things I said about (top tackle prospect Matt) Kalil, you could say about him. Needs to get a little bit stronger but will protect the quarterback."

He's ranked anywhere from 8-14 on most boards. I'm not sold on him yet but I'm willing to bet he's our pick if he's on the board at 13.

 

[Chopper0080]

I'm ok with Martin, but I think DeCastro will be a pro bowler.

 

[bg7brd]

I'm ok with Martin, but I think DeCastro will be a pro bowler.

I agree. I hope he's there at 13.

 

[THESMEL]

no

somebody needs to wrap their mind around the fact that Beanie is the engine of our offense, What Beanie does or does not do depends upon the Oline, What Kolb, Fitz and rest do or do not do depends directly on the Run game.

The Bean and RWill are the engine next year going forward. We have had a top WR for years - without a run game like Edge provided in the 08 playoffs and The Bean provided in the 09 playoff win, We suck.

Suck like the way we gave the hell up with 6 minutes left of the 3rd 1/4 of a divisional playoff game. Remember the saints Game! Watch it again like Whiz won't, stupid non running - throw like your hair is on fire Arizona Cardinal, yea get rid of Smushdown Levi Brown , learn that same damn lesson again.





quote=52brandon;2592014]lmao. So because he had one good game, he's now our authority on offensive linemen? Derek Anderson went to a Pro-Bowl, better bring him back too...[/quote]

 

[52brandon]

somebody needs to wrap their mind around the fact that Beanie is the engine of our offense, What Beanie does or does not do depends upon the Oline, What Kolb, Fitz and rest do or do not do depends directly on the Run game.

The Bean and RWill are the engine next year going forward. We have had a top WR for years - without a run game like Edge provided in the 08 playoffs and The Bean provided in the 09 playoff win, We suck.

Suck like the way we gave the hell up with 6 minutes left of the 3rd 1/4 of a divisional playoff game. Remember the saints Game! Watch it again like Whiz won't, stupid non running - throw like your hair is on fire Arizona Cardinal, yea get rid of Smushdown Levi Brown , learn that same damn lesson again.

lmao. Do you even check your "facts" before spouting em off? The Cardinals carried the ball 8 more times for about 50 more yards in the Packers game. There were also 7 more passing plays in the Packers game than the NO game for about 100 more yards. Kurt was on fire vs GB and got put out in NO, it's that simple

 

[Duckjake]

lmao. Do you even check your "facts" before spouting em off? The Cardinals carried the ball 8 more times for about 50 more yards in the Packers game. There were also 7 more passing plays in the Packers game than the NO game for about 100 more yards. Kurt was on fire vs GB and got put out in NO, it's that simple

No kidding. It's amazing how people don't check the stat book before saying things like that.

For instance fans are talking about how the Cards need to get to a 60/40 pass run percentage when that is exactly where they were last season.

What the Cards need on offense is more plays. 2010 the Cards had 561 pass attempts and 320 rushing attempts for a total of 881. Opponents: 533+526=1059. 2011 was better as the Cards were 550+389=939 but opponents still had 1053. That's an average of slightly over 9 more plays per game for the opponents the last two seasons combined.

 

[52brandon]

No kidding. It's amazing how people don't check the stat book before saying things like that.

For instance fans are talking about how the Cards need to get to a 60/40 pass run percentage when that is exactly where they were last season.

What the Cards need on offense is more plays. 2010 the Cards had 561 pass attempts and 320 rushing attempts for a total of 881. Opponents: 533+526=1059. 2011 was better as the Cards were 550+389=939 but opponents still had 1053. That's an average of slightly over 9 more plays per game for the opponents the last two seasons combined.

yup. First thing I thought was "first downs". Which is essentially the same thing. Our offense needs more consistency, more control. Hopefully whoever is there with Fitz next season can help to bring it back

 

[THESMEL]

I wathed the games

Beanie was over 90 on 14 carries, the balanced attack gave us a 3 score lead in the first 1/4 of the green bay playoff game. before we decided Mike adams was our best pass rusher that never defended a pass. and Kurt should pass it every down and allowing Green bay to come back and make it the most exciting playoff game in history. You won't see it on highlights or ESPN, But Whisenstupid blew a 3 score lead needlessly that day. Look at the play by play and the 17-0 lead in te first 1/4 behind feeding the Bean!

actual play by play link

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/20100...enu=highlights&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay


As Far as the pathetic Saints Loss Whisenhunt showed everything wrong with him and the Cardinals and every thing right with the balanced Saints playcalling, their top pass game.
THT started the game with an 80 yard TF run. He got 5 more carries after that, Beanie got 5 after that too... 11 total carries and most of them after we were uttly destroyed from passing too much with 6 minutes left in the 3rd 1/4 of a divisional playoff game.

Beat me with all the stats you want like THT's stupid run average that game , We do the same thing- same thing is gonna keep happening. 11 stupid carries against the Saints, We deserved the shallow uncaring playoff death that we recieved. We aint got back up since.

Amazing people talking stupid stats without watching the actual chess match of the games.

again what really happens when a plaoff teams runs 11 times.
link
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/20100...enu=highlights&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay




Of Course Matty did this and finished the last game Kurt ever Started, right before Whiz killed his career.

1. 1-10-ARI 20 (1:10) New quarterback for Arizona is #7 M.Leinart, replacing Warner who was injured on the interception. (Shotgun) 7-M.Leinart pass short middle to 80-E.Doucet to ARZ 26 for 6 yards (58-S.Shanle). Pass 5, YAC 1
2. 2-4-ARI 26 40) (Shotgun) 7-M.Leinart pass short left to 80-E.Doucet to ARZ 32 for 6 yards (22-T.Porter). Pass 5, YAC 1
3. Timeout #2 by ARZ at 00:32.
4. 1-10-ARI 32 32) (Shotgun) 7-M.Leinart pass short right to 11-L.Fitzgerald to ARZ 48 for 16 yards (20-R.Gay). Pass 15, YAC 1
5. 1-10-ARI 48 14) 7-M.Leinart spiked the ball to stop the clock.
6. 2-10-ARI 48 14) (Shotgun) 7-M.Leinart pass short middle to 11-L.Fitzgerald ran ob at NO 39 for 13 yards (28-U.Young). Pass -1, YAC 14
7. 1-10-NO 39 08) (Shotgun) 7-M.Leinart pass short left to 85-J.Urban ran ob at NO 33 for 6 yards (42-D.Sharper). Pass -1, YAC 7
8. Timeout #2 by NO at 00:02.
9. 2-4-NO 33 02) 1-N.Rackers 50 yard field goal is No Good, Short, Center-82-M.Leach, Holder-5-B.Graham.

No kidding. It's amazing how people don't check the stat book before saying things like that.

For instance fans are talking about how the Cards need to get to a 60/40 pass run percentage when that is exactly where they were last season.

What the Cards need on offense is more plays. 2010 the Cards had 561 pass attempts and 320 rushing attempts for a total of 881. Opponents: 533+526=1059. 2011 was better as the Cards were 550+389=939 but opponents still had 1053. That's an average of slightly over 9 more plays per game for the opponents the last two seasons combined.

 

[52brandon]

Beanie was over 90 on 14 carries, the balanced attack gave us a 3 score lead in the first 1/4 of the green bay playoff game. before we decided Mike adams was our best pass rusher that never defended a pass. and Kurt should pass it every down and allowing Green bay to come back and make it the most exciting playoff game in history. You won't see it on highlights or ESPN, But Whisenstupid blew a 3 score lead needlessly that day. Look at the play by play and the 17-0 lead in te first 1/4 behind feeding the Bean!

actual play by play link

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/20100...enu=highlights&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay


As Far as the pathetic Saints Loss Whisenhunt showed everything wrong with him and the Cardinals and every thing right with the balanced Saints playcalling, their top pass game.
THT started the game with an 80 yard TF run. He got 5 more carries after that, Beanie got 5 after that too... 11 total carries and most of them after we were uttly destroyed from passing too much with 6 minutes left in the 3rd 1/4 of a divisional playoff game.

Beat me with all the stats you want like THT's stupid run average that game , We do the same thing- same thing is gonna keep happening. 11 stupid carries against the Saints, We deserved the shallow uncaring playoff death that we recieved. We aint got back up since.

Amazing people talking stupid stats without watching the actual chess match of the games.

again what really happens when a plaoff teams runs 11 times.
link
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/20100...enu=highlights&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay




Of Course Matty did this and finished the last game Kurt ever Started, right before Whiz killed his career.

1. 1-10-ARI 20 (1:10) New quarterback for Arizona is #7 M.Leinart, replacing Warner who was injured on the interception. (Shotgun) 7-M.Leinart pass short middle to 80-E.Doucet to ARZ 26 for 6 yards (58-S.Shanle). Pass 5, YAC 1
2. 2-4-ARI 26 40) (Shotgun) 7-M.Leinart pass short left to 80-E.Doucet to ARZ 32 for 6 yards (22-T.Porter). Pass 5, YAC 1
3. Timeout #2 by ARZ at 00:32.
4. 1-10-ARI 32 32) (Shotgun) 7-M.Leinart pass short right to 11-L.Fitzgerald to ARZ 48 for 16 yards (20-R.Gay). Pass 15, YAC 1
5. 1-10-ARI 48 14) 7-M.Leinart spiked the ball to stop the clock.
6. 2-10-ARI 48 14) (Shotgun) 7-M.Leinart pass short middle to 11-L.Fitzgerald ran ob at NO 39 for 13 yards (28-U.Young). Pass -1, YAC 14
7. 1-10-NO 39 08) (Shotgun) 7-M.Leinart pass short left to 85-J.Urban ran ob at NO 33 for 6 yards (42-D.Sharper). Pass -1, YAC 7
8. Timeout #2 by NO at 00:02.
9. 2-4-NO 33 02) 1-N.Rackers 50 yard field goal is No Good, Short, Center-82-M.Leach, Holder-5-B.Graham.

if my math is correct, the offense put up a total of 19 rush yards in that first quarter you're yapping about. Whereas Warner had more TD passes than incompletions. But Beanie won that game for us? lol

 

[Buckybird]

if my math is correct, the offense put up a total of 19 rush yards in that first quarter you're yapping about. Whereas Warner had more TD passes than incompletions. But Beanie won that game for us? lol

Pardon Thesmels logic, he's still stuck in 1970. If he was running the Cards we would be running the wishbone with LSH at QB, Beanie & RW at RB & Sherman tank the FB.

Points come in the passing game, we almost all know that. Winning/losing in todays NFL almost always starts at the QB & if you look at nearly every SB champion they had a great QB. Nearly all of the last 9 have won with a lethal passing attack. IMO running the football 45-50% leaves you either sitting at home for the playoffs or watching the championship games on TV...throw the rock!!! Name the last time 2 semi-balanced teams played for a Super Bowl?

Like I told Thesmel in an earlier post, 9 out of 12 playoff teams from this year were in the bottom 1/3 in rushing attempts: making running the ball not about carries but keeping the defense honest, getting production when you do it & necessity or situations.

 

[52brandon]

Pardon Thesmels logic, he's still stuck in 1970. If he was running the Cards we would be running the wishbone with LSH at QB, Beanie & RW at RB & Sherman tank the FB.

Points come in the passing game, we almost all know that. Winning/losing in todays NFL almost always starts at the QB & if you look at nearly every SB champion they had a great QB. Nearly all of the last 9 have won with a lethal passing attack. IMO running the football 45-50% leaves you either sitting at home for the playoffs or watching the championship games on TV...throw the rock!!! Name the last time 2 semi-balanced teams played for a Super Bowl?

Like I told Thesmel in an earlier post, 9 out of 12 playoff teams from this year were in the bottom 1/3 in rushing attempts: making running the ball not about carries but keeping the defense honest, getting production when you do it & necessity or situations.

Steelers v Seahawks maybe? I completely agree with your post though...

 

[THESMEL]

Wow just Wow

The NY Giants beat the snot out of the stupid pass happy Patriots with a balanced gameplan in Super Bowls, twice!

Contrary to popular stupidity the Saints SB year they ran more than they passed in the regular season! leading to the top pass offense in the NFL!
What you seen last year was the same offense passing more than thety ran and getting their AZ handed to them by a run happy 49er team!

The steelers abandon their run roots and fail utterly passing like their hair is on fire.

What the hell are you guys watching? the cheerleaders?

When was the last time a team won without a run game?

Pardon Thesmels logic, he's still stuck in 1970. If he was running the Cards we would be running the wishbone with LSH at QB, Beanie & RW at RB & Sherman tank the FB.

Points come in the passing game, we almost all know that. Winning/losing in todays NFL almost always starts at the QB & if you look at nearly every SB champion they had a great QB. Nearly all of the last 9 have won with a lethal passing attack. IMO running the football 45-50% leaves you either sitting at home for the playoffs or watching the championship games on TV...throw the rock!!! Name the last time 2 semi-balanced teams played for a Super Bowl?

Like I told Thesmel in an earlier post, 9 out of 12 playoff teams from this year were in the bottom 1/3 in rushing attempts: making running the ball not about carries but keeping the defense honest, getting production when you do it & necessity or situations.

 

[JAB]

The NY Giants beat the snot out of the stupid pass happy Patriots with a balanced gameplan in Super Bowls, twice!

Contrary to popular stupidity the Saints SB year they ran more than they passed in the regular season! leading to the top pass offense in the NFL!
What you seen last year was the same offense passing more than thety ran and getting their AZ handed to them by a run happy 49er team!

The steelers abandon their run roots and fail utterly passing like their hair is on fire.

What the hell are you guys watching? the cheerleaders?

When was the last time a team won without a run game?

Well, this is painful, but the Pittsburgh Steelers were ranked 23rd in rushing in 08 and had around 50 yards against us in the Super Bowl. Also, the Green Bay Packers were ranked 24th the year they won, and they also had around 50 yards in the Super Bowl. I do however agree you should try to be a balanced team but it can happen.

 

[Phrazbit]

The NY Giants beat the snot out of the stupid pass happy Patriots with a balanced gameplan in Super Bowls, twice!

Contrary to popular stupidity the Saints SB year they ran more than they passed in the regular season! leading to the top pass offense in the NFL!
What you seen last year was the same offense passing more than thety ran and getting their AZ handed to them by a run happy 49er team!

The steelers abandon their run roots and fail utterly passing like their hair is on fire.

What the hell are you guys watching? the cheerleaders?

When was the last time a team won without a run game?

The Giants were dead last in the NFL in rushing... this year. So, I guess the 'last time' would be roughly 2 weeks ago.

 

[Buckybird]

The NY Giants beat the snot out of the stupid pass happy Patriots with a balanced gameplan in Super Bowls, twice!

Contrary to popular stupidity the Saints SB year they ran more than they passed in the regular season! leading to the top pass offense in the NFL!
What you seen last year was the same offense passing more than thety ran and getting their AZ handed to them by a run happy 49er team!

The steelers abandon their run roots and fail utterly passing like their hair is on fire.

What the hell are you guys watching? the cheerleaders?

When was the last time a team won without a run game?

Thesmel you're obviously not paying attention or DVR'ing past all the passes to watch only the runs.

1) The Saints ran more than they threw? You're right they ran for 4,000+ yds in 2009. Whatever

2) The Giants this year? If I'm not mistaken, didnt they basically throw it the length of the field to win except for a couple of runs? 40 passes & 26 runs (61%) is balanced? The Gmen are a pass first team now, like 80% of the good ones!!!

3) The Stealers aren't ground & pound anymore brotha!!! Last time I checked, they have been in 3 of the last 7 SB's.

It's a passing league & that's how you win and it's a very clear fact!
4) GMen in 2007? Same as #2...passed 56% of the game & passed to win!!!

Like I said, look at the playoff teams & what 80% of them do best...and it isn't run. What your watching isn't what the rest of America is watching.

 

[THESMEL]

OK

theres 2 out of 40 something. I agree. I didn't know they had less than 50 yards thats amazing! BUt I must check and see if the have 11 carries like the Cardinals last playoff game? some of them 11 carries against te saints were after it was over in the 3rd.

Well, this is painful, but the Pittsburgh Steelers were ranked 23rd in rushing in 08 and had around 50 yards against us in the Super Bowl. Also, the Green Bay Packers were ranked 24th the year they won, and they also had around 50 yards in the Super Bowl. I do however agree you should try to be a balanced team but it can happen.

 

[52brandon]

The NY Giants beat the snot out of the stupid pass happy Patriots with a balanced gameplan in Super Bowls, twice!

Contrary to popular stupidity the Saints SB year they ran more than they passed in the regular season! leading to the top pass offense in the NFL!
What you seen last year was the same offense passing more than thety ran and getting their AZ handed to them by a run happy 49er team!

The steelers abandon their run roots and fail utterly passing like their hair is on fire.

What the hell are you guys watching? the cheerleaders?

When was the last time a team won without a run game?

regular season? How does that fit into your logic of the cards going to the super bowl then? I thought you were all about Edge in the playoffs? Make up your mind

 

[THESMEL]

Its not about me

We were 9-7 in 08 had one of the worse 2nd halfs of the year in history! Including the 0-16 Lions? Our Clancy defense evened up the turnover numbers. If you go through the play by plays you'll see how stupid the playcalling was and why Edge tried to lead us otherwise, and got punched in the HOF!

Starte edge won all but the Rams game Started THT lost

http://www.nfl.com/teams/arizonacardinals/statistics?season=2008&team=ARI&seasonType=

Edge lead us to the early wins and the last game to go into the playoffs. Yards did not matter as much as carries and forcing the opposing defense to play balanced Nothing has ever been more obvious! ( Except cutting Matt Leinart made us a worse team) THT had 143 carries and He started 7 games!

http://www.nfl.com/teams/arizonacardinals/schedule?team=ARI&season=2008&seasonType=REG


Regardless of if thesmel ever existed or not it is still the damn truth
Yea the Saints had over 4000 yards passing but they had 2000+ rushing too. They were balanced and effective all year long!

http://www.nfl.com/teams/neworleanssaints/statistics?season=2009&team=NO&seasonType=REG

regular season? How does that fit into your logic of the cards going to the super bowl then? I thought you were all about Edge in the playoffs? Make up your mind

 

[52brandon]

We were 9-7 in 08 had one of the worse 2nd halfs of the year in history! Including the 0-16 Lions? Our Clancy defense evened up the turnover numbers. If you go through the play by plays you'll see how stupid the playcalling was and why Edge tried to lead us otherwise, and got punched in the HOF!

Starte edge won all but the Rams game Started THT lost

http://www.nfl.com/teams/arizonacardinals/statistics?season=2008&team=ARI&seasonType=

Edge lead us to the early wins and the last game to go into the playoffs. Yards did not matter as much as carries and forcing the opposing defense to play balanced Nothing has ever been more obvious! ( Except cutting Matt Leinart made us a worse team) THT had 143 carries and He started 7 games!

http://www.nfl.com/teams/arizonacardinals/schedule?team=ARI&season=2008&seasonType=REG


Regardless of if thesmel ever existed or not it is still the damn truth
Yea the Saints had over 4000 yards passing but they had 2000+ rushing too. They were balanced and effective all year long!

http://www.nfl.com/teams/neworleanssaints/statistics?season=2009&team=NO&seasonType=REG

hmmm.... saints were #1 in passing yards, #6 in rushing. Now why do you suppose the 5 teams higher didnt go home with the lombardi trophy then?