What is the plan?

[GatorAZ]

Can’t believe how many ppl would trade #6 PLUS Bridges for Holiday on the Brightside poll.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Can’t believe how many ppl would trade #6 PLUS Bridges for Holiday on the Brightside poll.

I can. It's difficult to see the potential of Bridges if you're just watching stats and let's face it, few Suns fans were patient enough to watch all the games this season.

 

[Hoop Head]

I agree with Steve. I think most Suns fans only watch the games and let it go. The dedication of fans on this board is much more than normal Suns fans. I would be surprised if more than 10% of the posters here would include Bridges in a deal for Holiday. I think Bridges is viewed right below Ayton and Booker as far as value goes and most here probably overvalue him, if we're being honest. I'd much rather overvalue him right now than undervalue him and use him as a throw in.

 

[Covert Rain]

Can’t believe how many ppl would trade #6 PLUS Bridges for Holiday on the Brightside poll.

How many 20 and 8 guys are in this league today at PG?

Look I love Bridges and his potential and yes would love to be able to keep him.

Seriously though? If you can get a legit 20 point and almost 8 assist starting guard which would fill a desperate needed position to boot?

How could we not do it!?

 

[Hoop Head]

How many 20 and 8 guys are in this league today at PG?

Look I love Bridges and his potential and yes would love to be able to keep him.

Seriously though? If you can get a legit 20 point and almost 8 assist starting guard which would fill a desperate needed position to boot?

How could we not do it!?

I understand that totally but the age of the 20 & 8 PG needs to be called into question. Our 2 best players are 22 and 21 right now. Trading away a wing like Bridges for a PG that is 29 or 30 isn't ideal just based on when Booker and Ayton will truly be able to help that PG. I know we're all tired of losing but adding a PG who will be in his mid 30's and probably not on the team anymore when Booker and Ayton are hitting their primes isn't ideal.

 

[Covert Rain]

I understand that totally but the age of the 20 & 8 PG needs to be called into question. Our 2 best players are 22 and 21 right now. Trading away a wing like Bridges for a PG that is 29 or 30 isn't ideal just based on when Booker and Ayton will truly be able to help that PG. I know we're all tired of losing but adding a PG who will be in his mid 30's and probably not on the team anymore when Booker and Ayton are hitting their primes isn't ideal.

That is a completely legit point. However, let’s say he has 4 good years left in the NBA. Booker is no longer a rookie and Ayton isn’t your typical rookie that isn’t ready to play.

Four years is an eternity in the NBA.

Draft someone you like in the next 4 years or trade for another young guy down the road to learn.

Besides even if you could get a young guy at that position who could play remember we also need the same thing at PF.

Do you really think this team is going to be able to keep 4 young legit starters on this team under contract without losing at least one to free agency say in the next 4 to 5!?

It’s a gamble. But IMO if you have a 3 to 4 year window you roll the dice unless you think he only has 1 to 2 years left.

 

[95pro]

I could see Holiday here for Bridges, you'd be getting Bridges version 3.0, a guy who can defend, shoot and pass. But I could also see Holiday wanting out to go to a contender after year 1 or 2 as he gets older, by that time Bridges should be hitting his stride/ceiling.

I'd rather keep and develop bridges to become our 3&D guy. What we need to do is shed Tyler and Warren's contract right now. We could even just get a combo guard and still keep Bridges.

 

[AzStevenCal]

How many 20 and 8 guys are in this league today at PG?

Look I love Bridges and his potential and yes would love to be able to keep him.

Seriously though? If you can get a legit 20 point and almost 8 assist starting guard which would fill a desperate needed position to boot?

How could we not do it!?

If you just want to boil it down to stats like you just did, I'd ask why would we do it. Booker scored 5.4 more points, .9 fewer assists, 1 more turnover with roughly the same efficiency so if it's just about those numbers, I'm not sure why we'd part with a boatload of assets.

There aren't a whole lot of moves we could make that would truly piss me off but trading away a big part of our future for a player nearing the twilight of his career would top the list. We finally have a guy that looks to spend much of his career on the All Defense team, it makes no sense to just give him away for such a short term gain.

 

[slinslin]

Can’t believe how many ppl would trade #6 PLUS Bridges for Holiday on the Brightside poll.

there are way more crazy desperate fans than you think

 

[slinslin]

How many 20 and 8 guys are in this league today at PG?

Look I love Bridges and his potential and yes would love to be able to keep him.

Seriously though? If you can get a legit 20 point and almost 8 assist starting guard which would fill a desperate needed position to boot?

How could we not do it!?

- Because he costs significants assets
- costs 26M$ for 3 more years from age 29-32
- Jrue Holiday himself does not want to play PG
- we don't know who is available at 6

Trading for Holiday has the same problems as trading for Conley that we would have to give up our cap flexibility for the next 3 years if we give up Tyler Johnson to match. Or significantly reduce our capspace if we trade Warren and Jackson.

No way I trade #6 and Bridges.

Tyler Johnson and #6 is already not a homerun trade. Neither is Warren, Jackson and #6.

So why throw in Bridges who is maybe worth as much as #6 or more?

 

[Covert Rain]

If you just want to boil it down to stats like you just did, I'd ask why would we do it. Booker scored 5.4 more points, .9 fewer assists, 1 more turnover with roughly the same efficiency so if it's just about those numbers, I'm not sure why we'd part with a boatload of assets.

There aren't a whole lot of moves we could make that would truly piss me off but trading away a big part of our future for a player nearing the twilight of his career would top the list. We finally have a guy that looks to spend much of his career on the All Defense team, it makes no sense to just give him away for such a short term gain.

Who said I was boiling it down to just stats? I have watched him play. I think he is a legit talent in the NBA. Booker is not a PG. Booker sometimes rushes shots and tries to do so much because we don't have a PG. So what Booker does at that spot is inconsequential. The point of bringing in a PG is to make Booker more efficient and give him the ability to not put the entire team on his shoulders for every minute that he is in there. Booker becomes a much better player if he doesn't have to carry the entire burden.

What it comes down to for me is what is more important. Is that a backup player or starting PG?

By the way, if we can swing another trade that makes more sense financially and we can get a legit starting PG sign me up. It's not like I am saying we NEED to trade him. I like him and if we could keep him great. I am all for it.

I am just saying if you want a legit starting PG we may have to make a move like this. Thinking that we are going to keep Booker, Ayton and 3 other young legit players without contract problems is a pipe dream.

There isn't a miracle solution here. It's at least worth exploring IMO. This team's reputation isn't going to change overnight. We are going to struggle to attract free agents. Which means getting inventive in trade scenarios that are going to cost us assets.

Suns fans around here have a hard time being realistic about how we value our own talent and what a struggle it is to field a complete team in the Sarver era.

 

[SunnyBaller]

there are way more crazy desperate fans than you think

Losing does that to people

 

[AzStevenCal]

Who said I was boiling it down to just stats? I have watched him play. I think he is a legit talent in the NBA. Booker is not a PG. Booker sometimes rushes shots and tries to do so much because we don't have a PG. So what Booker does at that spot is inconsequential. The point of bringing in a PG is to make Booker more efficient and give him the ability to not put the entire team on his shoulders for every minute that he is in there. Booker becomes a much better player if he doesn't have to carry the entire burden.

What it comes down to for me is what is more important. Is that a backup player or starting PG?

By the way, if we can swing another trade that makes more sense financially and we can get a legit starting PG sign me up. It's not like I am saying we NEED to trade him. I like him and if we could keep him great. I am all for it.

I am just saying if you want a legit starting PG we may have to make a move like this. Thinking that we are going to keep Booker, Ayton and 3 other young legit players without contract problems is a pipe dream.

There isn't a miracle solution here. It's at least worth exploring IMO. This team's reputation isn't going to change overnight. We are going to struggle to attract free agents. Which means getting inventive in trade scenarios that are going to cost us assets.

I didn't mean anything other than what you said, read your post again. Regardless, if you think he solves our PG needs for 4 years, yeah, it's worth considering. Myself, ignoring defense, I think Booker, with worlds of improvement still in front of him, is already a better actual PG than Holiday has ever been and if you pair the two, Booker will still end up running the offense most of the time.

I forget who did the work but I read on RGM recently that Holiday was a +1.5 when he was on the court as a PG and a +6.5 when he was out there as the shooting guard. Like Devin, he's a better off guard than a point guard but he has injury issues that will likely return long before he finishes his remaining 3 years. I know he hasn't had stress fracture problems in a few years and I'm no doctor but that kind of thing always seems to come up again.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Losing does that to people

True but winning brings out the crazy too.

 

[Covert Rain]

I didn't mean anything other than what you said, read your post again. Regardless, if you think he solves our PG needs for 4 years, yeah, it's worth considering. Myself, ignoring defense, I think Booker, with worlds of improvement still in front of him, is already a better actual PG than Holiday has ever been and if you pair the two, Booker will still end up running the offense most of the time.

I forget who did the work but I read on RGM recently that Holiday was a +1.5 when he was on the court as a PG and a +6.5 when he was out there as the shooting guard. Like Devin, he's a better off guard than a point guard but he has injury issues that will likely return long before he finishes his remaining 3 years. I know he hasn't had stress fracture problems in a few years and I'm no doctor but that kind of thing always seems to come up again.

100% agree with Booker and not reaching his full potential yet. I am hoping the current coaching staff helps shore that up. Yeah, I get the other side of the arguments with Holiday. Like I said, I am not saying he is the solution only that we will have to consider trades LIKE THIS to get a complete team IMO.

 

[SirStefan32]

Who said I was boiling it down to just stats? I have watched him play. I think he is a legit talent in the NBA. Booker is not a PG. Booker sometimes rushes shots and tries to do so much because we don't have a PG. So what Booker does at that spot is inconsequential. The point of bringing in a PG is to make Booker more efficient and give him the ability to not put the entire team on his shoulders for every minute that he is in there. Booker becomes a much better player if he doesn't have to carry the entire burden.

What it comes down to for me is what is more important. Is that a backup player or starting PG?

By the way, if we can swing another trade that makes more sense financially and we can get a legit starting PG sign me up. It's not like I am saying we NEED to trade him. I like him and if we could keep him great. I am all for it.

I am just saying if you want a legit starting PG we may have to make a move like this. Thinking that we are going to keep Booker, Ayton and 3 other young legit players without contract problems is a pipe dream.

There isn't a miracle solution here. It's at least worth exploring IMO. This team's reputation isn't going to change overnight. We are going to struggle to attract free agents. Which means getting inventive in trade scenarios that are going to cost us assets.

Suns fans around here have a hard time being realistic about how we value our own talent and what a struggle it is to field a complete team in the Sarver era.

While I generally agree with your post, I think I disagree on one point. Booker doesn't struggle because the Suns don't have a true PG. I think he struggles because they had no other facilitator. When both, Johnson and Oubre were healthy, Booker did not struggle as much, even though he still handled most of the play making. While Oubre doesn't make too many plays for other, he is a legitimate threat to score, so it takes some pressure off of Booker.

 

[Yuma]

Suns fans around here have a hard time being realistic about how we value our own talent and what a struggle it is to field a complete team in the Sarver era.

Amen, brother!

 

[95pro]

gosh I hate McD

 

[BC867]

How many 20 and 8 guys are in this league today at PG?

Look I love Bridges and his potential and yes would love to be able to keep him.

Seriously though? If you can get a legit 20 point and almost 8 assist starting guard which would fill a desperate needed position to boot?

How could we not do it!?

I wish the "20" would not be listed first in evaluating a Point Guard. Especially with Booker back at Shooting Guard.

For too many years, the Suns top two scorers were in the backcourt. That does not make a team strong.

We need a Point Guard who is not a weak scorer but, more importantly, can assist Ayton and our Power
Forward as scoring options.

Again, having our top two scorers in the backcourt does not build a strong playoff contender. For the
Suns, it never has.

 

[BC867]

Amen, brother!

True but winning brings out the crazy too.

Better a crazy winner than a crazy loser.

 

[Covert Rain]

While I generally agree with your post, I think I disagree on one point. Booker doesn't struggle because the Suns don't have a true PG. I think he struggles because they had no other facilitator. When both, Johnson and Oubre were healthy, Booker did not struggle as much, even though he still handled most of the play making. While Oubre doesn't make too many plays for other, he is a legitimate threat to score, so it takes some pressure off of Booker.

To clarify, what I mean when I say he struggles is that he makes too many mistakes and takes more risks when he feels like he has to carry the entire team.

If he felt like other guys could carry the load he probably takes fewer risks (dumb passes, fewer ill advised drives) and chucks up fewer suspect shots. He won’t feel the pressure of doing it all. That doesn’t have to come from a PG necessarily but unless we are targeting a point forward type or another SF I think logically that is the PG.

 

[BC867]

Booker doesn't struggle because the Suns don't have a true PG. I think he struggles because they had no other facilitator.

Isn't that saying the same thing? Not having a true PG and not having another facilitator.

As long as Booker is on the floor without an experienced and disciplined Point Guard,
Devin will be the chief facilitator by default, just as he was last season.

It may be a fine point, but it makes a difference. Having a pretender next to a pretender
is not the same as Booker at SG and Ayton at C being fed by a professional Point Guard.

 

[boisesuns]

True but winning brings out the crazy too.

Remember when the suns were good and we had laker and spurs trolls trying to mess with us all the time?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Remember when the suns were good and we had laker and spurs trolls trying to mess with us all the time?

Yeah, mostly Laker trolls and you know what, I'd welcome them back if it meant we were winning.

 

[boisesuns]

Yeah, mostly Laker trolls and you know what, I'd welcome them back if it meant we were winning.

It’s a side effect, but I agree!