What is the plan?

[JCSunsfan]

i can't believe part of the plan is almost zero college scouting. That seems beyond idiotic and backing us into a corner draft wise where we might either make a drastic trade using the lotto pick or just be caught completely flat-footed if they can't make a good trade using the lotto pick and blowing another one.

Can anyone make a good argument for why the team shouldn't be diving into scouting with such an atrocious team and a likely top 5 lotto pick on the way? I understand their idea to use that pick to hopefully get a vet (I don't agree with it necessarily, but I understand that is supposed to be part of their plan), but wouldn't you think they'd want to be prepared for either scenario to the best of their ability?

I heard some rumblings about the Suns not having college scouting right now, but its a bit hard for me to believe. To me that sounds like what a previous Suns scout would say after being let go. I imagine they are putting together a scouting staff right now. There is time. The scouts they hire are certainly scouting already because that is what scouts do. If they plan to move forward without a scouting staff, you are right, that would be idiotic. Usually people are never quite as dumb or as smart as we think.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I heard some rumblings about the Suns not having college scouting right now, but its a bit hard for me to believe. To me that sounds like what a previous Suns scout would say after being let go. I imagine they are putting together a scouting staff right now. There is time. The scouts they hire are certainly scouting already because that is what scouts do. If they plan to move forward without a scouting staff, you are right, that would be idiotic. Usually people are never quite as dumb or as smart as we think.

unfortunately, people calling the shots for the Suns have proven dumber than we could ever believe over the last decade or so.

And if Jones IS actually putting together a scouting team for college, I don't really know what makes him qualified to put together a staff like that.

 

[1Sun]

Well, from listening to Jones and even Sarver, I am guessing that the pick is getting traded. I tend to agree with that strategy, but they should absolutely be scouting. I am not sure how you know they are not, but if that's the case, that's a big miss. Even if they are trading the pick, we could end up in a scenario where they swap picks, or get a later pick in return, or something like that.

At this point, unless we get a king's ransom for Booker to slide Barrett into the shooting guard role, I believe it HAS to be Zion or trade the pick. I really don't see a single other player projected in the lottery who could be a capable NBA starter at any time during his rookie contract.

 

[BC867]

I agree that it will help. My fear is that an average PG will move us from 20 wins to 25. Then what?

Since starting, Melton is averaging 3.27 assists per game and 6.7 ppg. I have a hard time believing an average PG that adds 5 assists and 12 ppg is going to turn this team around.

The team is a lot worse than I expected prior to the start of the season.

A Point Guard who is a skilled passer, whether it is for the assist pass or the setup-for-an-assist pass (which does not show in the stats), as well as a good defender (and with dependable 2-point and free throw shots) can make this team, and the rest of the roster, much improved.

By making it simpler for Booker, Ayton and the rest of the team to do their best on offense, which will affect not only the scoring, but their states of mind. That concept cannot be overstated.

An "average" Point Guard in the best basketball league in the world is nothing to be ashamed of, especially if an experienced Point Guard facilitates (more than anyone else, including the coaches) the scorers around him. And, especially next to Devin, if he is an average defender in the backcourt.

Most fans now seem to agree that Booker needs to move back to full-time Shooting Guard. Putting the weight of the team on his shoulders has taken its toll. That alone will make an average Point Guard extremely valuable.

It is not about stats. It is about something I've been harping on -- team balance. Management should make it simpler for its players to do the job well. That has hardly been the case.

For the Suns, "average" would be a significant improvement! Let's step up to there, then hope that, somehow, management can plan the moves for the next step.

 

[BC867]

You guys would really rather trade Warren than Jackson? Not me.

Warren is a 6th man - and he would be damn good at that. We need a PF that can play d, and rebound next to Ayton. But I think it would be silly to get rid of Warren for the likely value we would get for him.

I think we are going to make a trade for a pg before the deadline - and honestly I think it is going to involve our first round pick. I am just praying they have enough sense to at least top one protect it, because if we lose out on Zion, I am not sure I could be a Suns fan anymore.

There is a reason the Suns are in no hurry to hire scouts - they don't plan on needing them this year.

We saw Warren's reaction when he was moved from starter to the bench. It didn't work then, so it won't work now. That is not a solution.

 

[elindholm]

I never have considered Bridges undersized. He is very long for a 3.

I know his arms are long, but other than that he looks tiny out there. He is listed at 6' 7", 210, but he looks smaller and lighter to me than Danny Green (whose game is somewhat similar), and Green is listed at 6' 6", 215. Physically, Bridges reminds me a lot of Walter Davis, who was listed at 6' 6", 198, and who was a better fit at SG than at SF once the league got bigger and stronger.

 

[Finito]

Plan? Plan?

 

[Hoop Head]

What potential PG on the market would be worth Warren?

I would include him in a deal for Brogdan I suppose. But not for Russel, Rubio or Dennis Smith.

Efficient 20 PPG scorers are rare - even more rare are 25 year old ones with a good contract. It would be idiotic to give him away for a subpar PG.

Jeff Teague would make some sense, as far as far value for Warren but I'm not sure the Wolves would have interest in Warren since they brought in Covington and Saric in the Butler trade. They already have Wiggins as one wing with Covington on the other and Saric as their PF. I think we'd need to get another team involved to make that happen. I could see Minnesota shopping Teague since Rose and Tyus Jones have been better and are cheaper. They'll probably look to resign Rose this summer and if Teague opts out that means he'd be leaving.

 

[GatorAZ]

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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

i can't believe part of the plan is almost zero college scouting. That seems beyond idiotic and backing us into a corner draft wise where we might either make a drastic trade using the lotto pick or just be caught completely flat-footed if they can't make a good trade using the lotto pick and blowing another one.

Can anyone make a good argument for why the team shouldn't be diving into scouting with such an atrocious team and a likely top 5 lotto pick on the way? I understand their idea to use that pick to hopefully get a vet (I don't agree with it necessarily, but I understand that is supposed to be part of their plan), but wouldn't you think they'd want to be prepared for either scenario to the best of their ability?

Yeah this is what makes me place the “STUPID” label across Sarver’s image an whomever is onboard that stupidity with Sarver.

 

[BC867]

I know his arms are long, but other than that he looks tiny out there. He is listed at 6' 7", 210, but he looks smaller and lighter to me than Danny Green (whose game is somewhat similar), and Green is listed at 6' 6", 215. Physically, Bridges reminds me a lot of Walter Davis, who was listed at 6' 6", 198, and who was a better fit at SG than at SF once the league got bigger and stronger.

Especially when Larry Nance, the first of the NBA's 6'10 Small Forwards, hit the roster forcing Davis to the backcourt. We'll never know if moving Walter was the plan or a reaction. I hoped it was the plan.

 

[hcsilla]

My Keepers: Booker, Ayton, and Bridges

Guys I'd Like to Keep Around: Oubre, Jackson and Holmes

Trade Options: Warren (and Jackson if value presents itself)

Everyone else is fairly irrelevant. It would be nice if Melton or Okobo develops, but I'm not counting on it.

I know it's a trending take, but I agree it is time to get value for Warren. He's a really good player, but not a good fit with our stars.

I'm fine with Melton and Okobo as a potential long-term backup PG's and both have the potential of becoming maybe more. Both are young, cheap and seem to accept a complementary role.

Holmes is a good backup C, if we can sign him to a reasonable contract like 15mil./3year, it's OK, otherwise he is not someone who you go into a bidding war for.

Besides Booker and Ayton Bridges is a keeper and so is Jackson, IMO despite his heavy struggles. He showed slight improvement this season and it would be too early to give up on him. I still hope, that one day he could become a Nic Batum-like (in his best days) player.

Even if we count Warren at PF, we start to have too much wings after keeping Bridges and Jackson. Warren might be traded but I just do not see the PG who is available for Warren and represents a heavy upgrade. Trading Warren for a draft pick is more or less out of question due different reasons.

That leaves Oubre as a trade candidate. He is a good player but I don't really see his future role in Phoenix, he will get a new contract soon. He might net a mid 1st rounder/late lottery pick from a desperate borderline play-off team like Detroit or New Orleans who is starving for a 3/D player,

With a #12-18 pick I would target Nickeil Alexander-Watson who seems a (future) more mobile version of Malcolm Brogdon and might turn out an excellent fit to Booker.

 

[1Sun]

I'm fine with Melton and Okobo as a potential long-term backup PG's and both have the potential of becoming maybe more. Both are young, cheap and seem to accept a complementary role.

Holmes is a good backup C, if we can sign him to a reasonable contract like 15mil./3year, it's OK, otherwise he is not someone who you go into a bidding war for.

Besides Booker and Ayton Bridges is a keeper and so is Jackson, IMO despite his heavy struggles. He showed slight improvement this season and it would be too early to give up on him. I still hope, that one day he could become a Nic Batum-like (in his best days) player.

Even if we count Warren at PF, we start to have too much wings after keeping Bridges and Jackson. Warren might be traded but I just do not see the PG who is available for Warren and represents a heavy upgrade. Trading Warren for a draft pick is more or less out of question due different reasons.

That leaves Oubre as a trade candidate. He is a good player but I don't really see his future role in Phoenix, he will get a new contract soon. He might net a mid 1st rounder/late lottery pick from a desperate borderline play-off team like Detroit or New Orleans who is starving for a 3/D player,

With a #12-18 pick I would pick Nickeil Alexander-Watson who seems a (future) more mobile version of Malcolm Brogdon and might turn out an excellent fit to Booker.

And who would you have start at point guard for us in the meantime? We still have an immediate need for a veteran starting point guard.

 

[1tinsoldier]

"time" is a bad plan if it is spent learning the wrong way to play basketball

 

[hcsilla]

And who would you have start at point guard for us in the meantime?

I'm afraid, De'Anthony Melton.

We still have an immediate need for a veteran starting point guard.

Demand is one thing, supply is another.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Time or waiting is not a plan. This team will implode before it develops as currently constructed. Booker is already yelling at the coach on tv. If this garbage continues Igor will completely lose the team if he hasn't already.

We cannot go into next season with a pissed Booker, a demoralized Ayton and a coach who has lost his team. Bold moves are needed and needed fast.

Based on this seasons play signing an average PG and drafting another project is not going to cut it.

Until we know what we have, and that takes time for maturity and development, we really have no idea what we need to do. Unless we change our goals. If all we care about is to no longer be an embarrassment, the solution is simple. Trade Ayton, Booker, Jackson, Oubre and a few others for solid veterans. Then, replace Koko with a coach like the one in Brooklyn and live with 35 to 40 win seasons until we can luck into a Giannis-like star with a middling pick.

But Booker is going nowhere and I see no problem with spending this season trying to develop the players we believe in and jettisoning the ones we don't. But I don't mean the ones us fans believe or don't believe in, I mean the people that work with these guys every day. If we get lucky with the lottery, we take Zion and trade a few future picks and Warren for a quality starting point guard. I'm not sure who that will be but some team will likely go back to the drawing board before much longer and hopefully they'll have a PG we want.

If we don't get lucky, then we draft a PG or trade it and whatever it takes to fill that position. Regardless, time (AKA patience) has to be the watchword of the day, trying to fix this mess right away should not be our priority. The cost is too high IMO.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Watching Duke play my new plan involves kidnapping a few NBA people and holding them hostage until they turn over Zion to us in the draft.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Watching Duke play my new plan involves kidnapping a few NBA people and holding them hostage until they turn over Zion to us in the draft.

I'm on board.

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[sunsfan88]

Until we know what we have, and that takes time for maturity and development, we really have no idea what we need to do. Unless we change our goals. If all we care about is to no longer be an embarrassment, the solution is simple. Trade Ayton, Booker, Jackson, Oubre and a few others for solid veterans. Then, replace Koko with a coach like the one in Brooklyn and live with 35 to 40 win seasons until we can luck into a Giannis-like star with a middling pick.

But Booker is going nowhere and I see no problem with spending this season trying to develop the players we believe in and jettisoning the ones we don't. But I don't mean the ones us fans believe or don't believe in, I mean the people that work with these guys every day. If we get lucky with the lottery, we take Zion and trade a few future picks and Warren for a quality starting point guard. I'm not sure who that will be but some team will likely go back to the drawing board before much longer and hopefully they'll have a PG we want.

If we don't get lucky, then we draft a PG or trade it and whatever it takes to fill that position. Regardless, time (AKA patience) has to be the watchword of the day, trying to fix this mess right away should not be our priority. The cost is too high IMO.

This has been the Suns motto for far too long and it's one of the reasons imo why this team has the second longest playoff drought in all of basketball. Sure no need for a panic trade but a move regardless still has to be made for at least one or two of the glaring holes on the team.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This has been the Suns motto for far too long and it's one of the reasons imo why this team has the second longest playoff drought in all of basketball. Sure no need for a panic trade but a move regardless still has to be made for at least one or two of the glaring holes on the team.

We have the second longest drought because for several years we DID NOT do what we are doing now. Youth is the culprit the past 3 seasons or so, that's it - the rest is on the shoulders of broken down old guys and bad free agent veteran signings by Sarver and company.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I'm on board.

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[taz02]

As @Chaplin noted it is more than assists. The Suns need someone to run the team effectively.

Also an average point guard can help determine where the problem is... whether it is a lack of talent or a coaching issue. If the problem is coaching, we need to find this out before next season.

Good point. I'm certainly not arguing against even an average PG but It's hard to imagine an average PG could make that much of a difference.

If the difference between being competitive and losing 60 games is an average PG we probably need a different system.

 

[Mainstreet]

Good point. I'm certainly not arguing against even an average PG but It's hard to imagine an average PG could make that much of a difference.

If the difference between being competitive and losing 60 games is an average PG we probably need a different system.

You might be right on the system part. The Suns need to find a better way to feed Ayton. Igor needs to be able to adapt.

An average point guard might make more of a difference than might be anticipated since the Suns do not have a starter or even a good bench point guard.

 

[Proximo]

Good point. I'm certainly not arguing against even an average PG but It's hard to imagine an average PG could make that much of a difference.

If the difference between being competitive and losing 60 games is an average PG we probably need a different system.

Yeah, everybody expecting an “average” point guard to solve all our problems is living in a dream world.

Time to develop our young players is the main thing needed.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think poor drafting is more of the culprit than youth.

If the Suns hadn't blown the 2016 draft so miserably they wouldn't be in such dire straits. They missed on Bender and Chriss while trading away the rights to Bogdan Bogdanovic in the process.

Also the jury is also out on Josh Jackson.

The Suns have had their bites of the apple with early draft picks. It's more the draft picks have not produced.

Hopefully Ayton and Bridges prove to be good selections.