What Remains to Be Done

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm not sure I understand the angst regarding the TE spot. Maxx Williams has performed well when healthy. We do need to add more to that room but the TE position is not heavily featured.

CB I completley understand the frustration. We are going to need to add a starting calibur player either through trade or a FA.

Agree. What’s wrong with counting on guy who has 23 total catches in two years and has missed 30 games over his 6 year career? I’m sure he’ll step up and catch 40 passes and remain healthy this season.

 

[Dayman]

Beyond the remaining holes at certain positions, there were two glaring weaknesses in the general makeup of last year's roster that haven't been addressed.

1. Speed - This offense and defense badly needed an infusion of speed. What did Keim do? He somehow made the team slower. Arnold wasn't a world beater, but at least he opened things up a little for the guys underneath. Nobody is worried about Max Williams going deep.. Reddick not only got to the QB, he could also run with most RBs and some TEs. Simmons can do some of that now, but outside of Simmons, the LBers are glacially slow. For a team that is supposed to play fast, we severely lack personnel with speed and athleticism, even more than last year.

2. Defensive playmakers - Peterson and Kirkpatrick have plenty of flaws, but they made plays on the ball. The current starting secondary has combined for 4 interceptions in the last two years. Hopefully Simmons can help out a little here, too, but he can't do it all himself.

To me, this team appears to have an identity crisis that has only gotten worse this off-season. Watching AJ Green get hit 2 yards behind the LOS on WR screens 3 times a game next year is going to be painful.

 

[Redsz]

Agree. What’s wrong with counting on guy who has 23 total catches in two years and has missed 30 games over his 6 year career? I’m sure he’ll step up and catch 40 passes and remain healthy this season.

We don't need Williams to catch 40 passes. He needs to block and be an outlet for Kyler Murray. The TE is a role player in this offense.

 

[Solar7]

We don't need Williams to catch 40 passes. He needs to block and be an outlet for Kyler Murray. The TE is a role player in this offense.

But the TE position was second in position group for receiving TDs... Maxx Williams sure was an afterthought, with only 10 targets, but Arnold sure wasn't.

 

[Redsz]

But the TE position was second in position group for receiving TDs... Maxx Williams sure was an afterthought, with only 10 targets, but Arnold sure wasn't.

Dan Arnold had 30 catches last year and split snaps with other TE's because he wasn't a good blocker. Our running backs had more targets and catches than the TE's.

 

[oaken1]

Call me crazy but I would still draft a guard at 16.... get a CB in the second.... and sign a veteran thumper to split carries with Edmonds

 

[Stout]

I'm not sure I understand the angst regarding the TE spot. Maxx Williams has performed well when healthy. We do need to add more to that room but the TE position is not heavily featured.

CB I completley understand the frustration. We are going to need to add a starting calibur player either through trade or a FA.

When healthy is the big issue, because he never is.

We need to add TWO starting caliber players at CB.

 

[BritCard]

It's still early days yet.

There's going to be a bunch of post draft cap casualties this year with people managing their cap space. Nobody expected guys like Hudson or Adoree Jackson to be on the market. There will be more like that between the draft and the start of camp. There are still a bunch of teams over the cap, or far too close to it to comfortably enter the season and have room for later additions.

And there's actually still a bunch of talent out there at both CB and RB.

There's also not a huge amount of competition out there at either position.

Teams in need of a starting outside corner besides us are Falcons, Panthers, Cowboys, Raiders, Jets, Chargers, Saints, Niners and a some of them will go with the draft.

 

[Stout]

It's still early days yet.

There's going to be a bunch of post draft cap casualties this year with people managing their cap space. Nobody expected guys like Hudson or Adoree Jackson to be on the market. There will be more like that between the draft and the start of camp. There are still a bunch of teams over the cap, or far too close to it to comfortably enter the season and have room for later additions.

And there's actually still a bunch of talent out there at both CB and RB.

There's also not a huge amount of competition out there at either position.

Teams in need of a starting outside corner besides us are Falcons, Panthers, Cowboys, Raiders, Jets, Chargers, Saints, Niners and a some of them will go with the draft.

So the Kevin Bacon Animal House "Remain calm, all is well" advice. Riiight. I really want us to bank on those post-draft cap casualties to fill TWO starting CB positions. I really want us to bank on Keim's draft genius to fill them first. Ugh. It's absolutely no fun when the GM paints himself into such an ugly corner, pun intended.

 

[slanidrac16]

We don't need Williams to catch 40 passes. He needs to block and be an outlet for Kyler Murray. The TE is a role player in this offense.

Maybe we can slide a hospital bed on the field when he is inactive.

 

[AZman5103]

We gotta hope the plan is 1 solid CB in free agency, and 1 in the first round. For me the guy to target is Jaycee Horn. I like his mindset, his prep, and him worth ethic. I think he is a solid starter year 1.

In the 2nd, I would either double dip at CB or trade down.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

We don't need Williams to catch 40 passes. He needs to block and be an outlet for Kyler Murray. The TE is a role player in this offense.

He and Arnold combined to catch over 40 passes last year. So if he (and whomever we sign) don’t replicate that it’s a step back. You can rinse and repeat the tired “it’s a role player in this offense” all you want but that’s a lazy way of excusing not having a playmaker at the position. Kliff learned his rookie season that he needed TEs. And when he had one (Arnold last year) he made good use of him. Imagine if a younger player like Arnold actually improved in his second full season starting!?! We can’t have that!

 

[ASUCHRIS]

People seem to forget that Dan Arnold was one of Kyler's favorite targets as the year went on, which is sad in so many ways. Relying on Maxxxxx is about as smart as relying on Robert Alford.

 

[Redsz]

He and Arnold combined to catch over 40 passes last year. So if he (and whomever we sign) don’t replicate that it’s a step back. You can rinse and repeat the tired “it’s a role player in this offense” all you want but that’s a lazy way of excusing not having a playmaker at the position. Kliff learned his rookie season that he needed TEs. And when he had one (Arnold last year) he made good use of him. Imagine if a younger player like Arnold actually improved in his second full season starting!?! We can’t have that!

I'm not being "lazy".The TE position is not a feature of the air raid offence. The RBs are used more as pass catchers than TE's. There have been some exceptions through the years but this has been the historic trend for many years in college ball.

For example, Drake and Edmonds have had more targets than our TE's over the past two seasons. So schematically they are featured more than the TE position.

It looks like the value of the position factored into the what the Cardinals were prepared to offer. Personally I think 3mil per year was alot for Carolina to offer given Arnold's production this year.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm not being "lazy".The TE position is not a feature of the air raid offence. The RBs are used more as pass catchers than TE's. There have been some exceptions through the years but this has been the historic trend for many years in college ball.

For example, Drake and Edmonds have had more targets than our TE's over the past two seasons. So schematically they are featured more than the TE position.

It looks like the value of the position factored into the what the Cardinals were prepared to offer. Personally I think 3mil per year was alot for Carolina to offer given Arnold's production this year.

It’s possible, but it could also be attributable to a variety of circumstances:

1. lean towards talent. If kliff considered our rbs more talented than our TE I’d call games skewed in that direction.
2. Situational football. We dinked and dunked a lot and it seemed that we were regularly in 3rd and short where rbs are used more frequently.
3. Kyler preference. There’s been plenty said about kyler checking down and being risk averse.

none of that would have anything to do with scheme. In fact. Given the fact our te tended to be chunk receivers (see Arnold’s ypc), I’d argue they play an integral role in scheme in stretching the middle of the field.

 

[Russ Smith]

But the TE position was second in position group for receiving TDs... Maxx Williams sure was an afterthought, with only 10 targets, but Arnold sure wasn't.

Agreed but that's where AJ Green makes a difference. His size in the red zone replaces Arnold, so instead of needing Kirk to get open, and catch the ball, you just need a tiny window to get it in or up and in to Green. As bad as he was last year he was apparently 9th in the NFL in contested catch rate. The Cards did their own analysis I read it yesterday, I think they said they determined 38 of the targets to him were completely uncatchable, not even Larry in his prime catches them. So his performance wasn't great but not as bad as it looked statistically and on contested catches, he was still among the 10 best in the game.

I wanted Arnold and I do worry about CB, but I think Green takes away some of the Arnold angst.

Chase started against a very good Miami defense had 25 carries 70 yards, it was also the best rushing game of the season for Kyler Murray 11 for 106 I don't think that was coincidence Miami was concerned about Chase and it opened things up more for Kyler. The year before he had 3 TD's against the GIants. I know he got hurt in his other start 2 years ago, don't remember the other start last year.

I think we'll get at least one more RB in FA or the draft but I do think not overpaying to keep Drake was the right move. I also think Hudson will help our run game immensely.

 

[BritCard]

Agreed but that's where AJ Green makes a difference. His size in the red zone replaces Arnold, so instead of needing Kirk to get open, and catch the ball, you just need a tiny window to get it in or up and in to Green. As bad as he was last year he was apparently 9th in the NFL in contested catch rate. The Cards did their own analysis I read it yesterday, I think they said they determined 38 of the targets to him were completely uncatchable, not even Larry in his prime catches them. So his performance wasn't great but not as bad as it looked statistically and on contested catches, he was still among the 10 best in the game.

I wanted Arnold and I do worry about CB, but I think Green takes away some of the Arnold angst.

Chase started against a very good Miami defense had 25 carries 70 yards, it was also the best rushing game of the season for Kyler Murray 11 for 106 I don't think that was coincidence Miami was concerned about Chase and it opened things up more for Kyler. The year before he had 3 TD's against the GIants. I know he got hurt in his other start 2 years ago, don't remember the other start last year.

I think we'll get at least one more RB in FA or the draft but I do think not overpaying to keep Drake was the right move. I also think Hudson will help our run game immensely.

This. Dan Arnold wasn't really a TE. He was a tall WR. He probably lined up more as a big slot than he did in line. He certainly didn't offer much from a blocking stand point and if he was on the field he was generally running a route.

AJ Green replaces some of what Arnold offered.

I liked Arnold and wanted him to stay but I don't think he was worth $3m per. Not in this market.

We still need to add at TE for sure. But I'm not too worried about losing Arnold. Especially considering our scheme doesn't make the best use of TE's.

 

[juza76]

This. Dan Arnold wasn't really a TE. He was a tall WR. He probably lined up more as a big slot than he did in line. He certainly didn't offer much from a blocking stand point and if he was on the field he was generally running a route.

AJ Green replaces some of what Arnold offered.

I liked Arnold and wanted him to stay but I don't think he was worth $3m per. Not in this market.

We still need to add at TE for sure. But I'm not too worried about losing Arnold. Especially considering our scheme doesn't make the best use of TE's.

Tell me how green would replace Arnold
Based on what? Height?

 

[BritCard]

Tell me how green would replace Arnold
Based on what? Height?

Based on Arnold was a big target for Murray in the RZ and now Green will do that job.

People here acting like Arnold was a key piece. He averaged 2.8 targets and 1.9 catches a game. If we can't replace that we may as well give up.

 

[juza76]

Based on Arnold was a big target for Murray in the RZ and now Green will do that job.

People here acting like Arnold was a key piece. He averaged 2.8 targets and 1.9 catches a game. If we can't replace that we may as well give up.

If he was poorly used wasn't his fault, I saw many desperate throws on Kirk and Isabella on clutch plays where Arnold could have had the edge

Let's see Arnold numbers next year

 

[overseascardfan]

How about Sammy Watkins to round out WR corps?

Teammate of Hopkins at CLEM, may not break the bank. BAL is interested in signing him.

 

[BritCard]

If he was poorly used wasn't his fault, I saw many desperate throws on Kirk and Isabella on clutch plays where Arnold could have had the edge

Let's see Arnold numbers next year

How he could have been used doesn't really matter. He's easy to replace because we barely used him.

I would have liked to have kept him for vert min type money. At the same time, it's not a huge loss. Both things are true.

 

[BritCard]

How about Sammy Watkins to round out WR corps?

Teammate of Hopkins at CLEM, may not break the bank. BAL is interested in signing him.

I don't see them spending any more money on WR.

They don't have a lot of cap to spare, still lots of holes to fill elsewhere and WR is in decent shape in comparison.

 

[QuebecCard]

This. Dan Arnold wasn't really a TE. He was a tall WR. He probably lined up more as a big slot than he did in line. He certainly didn't offer much from a blocking stand point and if he was on the field he was generally running a route.

AJ Green replaces some of what Arnold offered.

I liked Arnold and wanted him to stay but I don't think he was worth $3m per. Not in this market.

We still need to add at TE for sure. But I'm not too worried about losing Arnold. Especially considering our scheme doesn't make the best use of TE's.

Give the $3m to FITZ and let him run those so-called T-end pass-catching routes. Problem solved.

 

[Son of RedRage]

Only 3 big name RBs haven't been signed. Lev Bell, Todd Gurley, and Leonard Fournette. Our inaction means that we'll have to draft a running back. I pray that Keim is smart enough not to draft one in the first round. That never goes well.