What was Toronto thinking?

[Phrazbit]

He entered the league as a very underdeveloped talent and began a steady rise and for a very short time, he reached top 15 status (IMO). Since shoulder surgery he has struggled to regain his form but even still I wouldn't put him lower than top 50 right now. I see no reason why he can't get back to his 2011 form and perhaps even improve, he's not that old. The guy can get his shot off against anyone in the league and he has every shot in the book. When he was playing at his best, he was THE star for that team and they were looking like a true championship contender until he went down.

Steve

They had their best run while Gay was out with that shoulder injury though and he'd been replaced by Shane Battier. I think he was the 3rd best player on that team. What pushed them over the top was Zach Randolph suddenly having it all click for him, and I think their struggles last year where more about Randolph's health issues than Gay's shoulder.

 

[AzStevenCal]

They had their best run while Gay was out with that shoulder injury though and he'd been replaced by Shane Battier. I think he was the 3rd best player on that team. What pushed them over the top was Zach Randolph suddenly having it all click for him, and I think their struggles last year where more about Randolph's health issues than Gay's shoulder.

The way I remember it, they were playing great with Gay. Then, they fell apart for a little while without him until one day, Randolph decided to be the most feared big man in the game. Zach dominated the league and that started all the talk that maybe Gay wasn't necessary and it picked up steam when Rudy came back at less than 100%. He hasn't been the same player since his return. I think he'll get his confidence back playing for Toronto and hopefully his touch back from the 3 point line and when that happens, he's the third best SF in the game IMO.

Steve

 

[Phrazbit]

The way I remember it, they were playing great with Gay. Then, they fell apart for a little while without him until one day, Randolph decided to be the most feared big man in the game. Zach dominated the league and that started all the talk that maybe Gay wasn't necessary and it picked up steam when Rudy came back at less than 100%. He hasn't been the same player since his return. I think he'll get his confidence back playing for Toronto and hopefully his touch back from the 3 point line and when that happens, he's the third best SF in the game IMO.

Steve

As much as I dislike the idea of complimenting Carmelo Anthony... even at Gay's idealistic best, Anthony is a lot better.

I dont want to come off as thinking Gay is a bad player, I do like him, just not for anywhere close to that price. Salary issues aside, I'd put him somewhere between the 5th-10th best SF in the league.

But on a lighter note, I know ONE Toronto fan who probably has mixed feelings about this trade.

Be advised: there is at least one French-Canadian accented F-Bomb in the video.



That video cracks me up. "NO! ITS RUDY GAY!!!! NO! NO! NO!"

 

[PhxGametime]

How much better is Rudy Gay than players like Gallinari, Chandler Parsons, Evan Turner, Paul George, Thadius Young... is he even better than all those guys?

I think he belongs somewhere within that group of players. Other than the hard to quantify ability of "clutch" he does nothing to separate himself from that pack and is in several areas of lower quality than a lot of those guys. And he makes far more money than any of them do.

I'm not a smart or debate kind of guy but Paul George is only the guy on that list I'd put in Rudy's group, and I'm guessing George is going to get a big contract when deal is up. Parsons is best value obviously but I'd like to see how Gallinari or Parsons matchup against James/Durant/Anthony before I add Gallinari (Parsons should've been on my list, if I overlooked).

Rudy Gay and Josh Smith (in stretches) are the guys I keyed in on to matchup with best SF's with size, athleticism, and both are stat-sheet stuffers - I know Gay has played well against James (at least watching ESPN Sportscenter lol) before but I tend to only watch Suns games sooo...

Otto Porter would be my favorite SF in Draft class but how he matches up defensively/offensively against James/Durant is a guess...

The Grizzlies didn't get a 1st Rounder in deal with Detroit/Toronto, as far as I know?? Dudley, Beasley, and 1st would've been my price and is much better than what they received, IMO. Davis was a bust coming into Season and Prince is going to be 33 soon...

 

[JCSunsfan]

Bryan Colangelo has really liked Rudy Gay since he was drafted. They are saying in Toronto that he was trying to decide between Gay and Bargnani on draft day a few years ago. He considers him a star player.

This is really the only way Toronto is going to get quality free agents. The tax situation in Canada make is a very undesirable destination for free agents (does the NBA make some sort of allowance for this?)

My question would be--why is Memphis gutting the best team they have had in years and doing it the middle of the best season this franchise has had--ever.

 

[elindholm]

Gay top 15 in the league? You can't be serious. Which of the 25 players (and counting) on this year's All-Star teams would you say Gay is even remotely close to? There can't be more than a couple, so that's a quick 20 players right there who are a clear notch ahead of him.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm not surprised that most of you disagree about Gay although I am a bit surprised that I've been met with such incredulity. It makes me wonder what you guys have seen with Gay that I've missed. Anyway, let's clear the air on part of this though. I'm not saying he is top 15 today. I'm saying that he elevated his game to top 15 status prior to injuring his shoulder in 2011 and that I see no reason for him to not return to that level.

Steve

 

[SirStefan32]

I'm not surprised that most of you disagree about Gay although I am a bit surprised that I've been met with such incredulity. It makes me wonder what you guys have seen with Gay that I've missed. Anyway, let's clear the air on part of this though. I'm not saying he is top 15 today. I'm saying that he elevated his game to top 15 status prior to injuring his shoulder in 2011 and that I see no reason for him to not return to that level.

Steve

I just don't remember him being THAT great. I remember him being a much better shooter, but I don't remember him ever being a play-maker, I don't remember him being a lock-down defender (though certainly not a bad defender), and I don't remember him being great at penetrating/ breaking down defense. I seem to recall him being better at moving without the ball.

In all fairness, I am speaking from memory, which is always dangerous, and I haven't seem him play in more than 10 games in the last two years, so I could be completely wrong.

 

[Mainstreet]

Most of my thoughts about Gay come with the recollection that I thought he would become a star when he first entered the league. His athleticism wowed me. Now, I want a young star in the making on the way up. After the Suns missed getting Gordon, I'm more cautious about where the Suns should spend their money.

 

[Mainstreet]

Come to think about it, I view Nicolas Batum much the same way I looked at Gay. Batum may yet reach another level.

 

[elindholm]

In all fairness, I am speaking from memory, which is always dangerous, and I haven't seem him play in more than 10 games in the last two years, so I could be completely wrong.

His best season was his sophomore year, 07-08, when he was 21. He averaged 20/6 on 46% shooting, and I don't know how he was defensively, but he chipped in with steals and blocks too. I think you could have made the case then that he could "project" as a top-15 player. But that was five years ago, he peaked there for a few years, and now he's in a slow decline. For whatever reason, he didn't pan out, and it's extremely unlikely that he'll regain that magic now that he's middle-aged by NBA player standards.

 

[Phrazbit]

Steve, where would you have ranked Danny Granger when he was healthier a few years back? Gay always struck me as similar but Granger was quite a bit better.

Gay was good, and one of the better late game players but I never felt like he brought enough to the table (or was dominant enough as a scorer) to be an elite player.

 

[sportznutt]

Ed Davis played his way to this trade. Calderon is good, but Lowry is far superior. They have a solid starting 5 and a trading piece in Barngani.........good deal.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Steve, where would you have ranked Danny Granger when he was healthier a few years back? Gay always struck me as similar but Granger was quite a bit better.

Gay was good, and one of the better late game players but I never felt like he brought enough to the table (or was dominant enough as a scorer) to be an elite player.

Each at their best, I'd have put Gay slightly above Danny. I'd give Granger a fair edge on offense but Rudy was a better team defender and a much better on-ball defender. Gay could disrupt the other team with his ability to guard up and down and whether defending on the ball or doubling he forced a lot of turnovers in addition to his steals. Add in his ability to hit big baskets at key moments and I think that more than overcomes Danny's biggest advantage which was his consistency from distance. Also, Danny was usually the focus of that team which has rarely been the case for Rudy.

If this sounds like I'm insisting I'm correct, well, it's not intended to be that way. I'm not a Rudy Gay expert nor am I a closet Grizzlies fan. I watched them maybe a dozen times a year (including playoffs) and I was very impressed by what I saw (especially every time I watched him play the Spurs). But that leaves a lot of games that I didn't see and my position gets even a little weaker given that I've never been much into the stats of the game.

Steve

 

[sportznutt]

Given that Granger gets injured a lot too puts Gay higher for me. Gay is only 26.....give him 2 years and.we'll see how much better he can get.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm sure Gay hasn't won over most of you but I'll bet he's won over Toronto fans. I really don't think it's possible to overvalue his ability to take and make his shot in critical moments. He did it again for the Raptors last night.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm sure Gay hasn't won over most of you but I'll bet he's won over Toronto fans. I really don't think it's possible to overvalue his ability to take and make his shot in critical moments. He did it again for the Raptors last night.

Steve

Toronto needed a potential star player in Gay and went out got him. I doubt if the Suns can do better.

 

[Phrazbit]

Toronto threw away their draft pick already this year. It makes slightly more sense for them to do a crazy gamble like this on Gay. Where for the Suns it would make none.

 

[sunsfan88]

Gay is the kind if clutch, go to scorer the Suns haven't had in a while.

That said, I still didn't want him on the Suns and don't want him now either though. But I won't discount the fact that all in all, he's one of the best players in this league.

 

[Sunburn]

Gay is the kind if clutch, go to scorer the Suns haven't had in a while.

That said, I still didn't want him on the Suns and don't want him now either though. But I won't discount the fact that all in all, he's one of the best players in this league.

I don't know if I would describe Gay as a go-to scorer just yet. Now, I am not an expert on Gay. He certainly has the ability and has taken steps already with the Raptors. However, since Gay has been in the league, I never would have put him in the category of "go-to scorer". His past numbers also do not put him in the category of one of the best players in the league. However, neither did James Harden's.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Rudy is looking pretty good for the Raps. He is averaging 21 in the last 10 and the team is playing better. He seems to be the primary piece that they can build around.

Kind of a James Harden story, to a lesser degree.

 

[Errntknght]

The Grizz looked like the move hurt them right after the trade but since that they've won six in a row. But I have to admit the move has had in immediate positive impact on Toronto... it seems to have lifted the whole team, according to observers. I didn't dream Rudy Gay could do that. Of course, it didn't make them contenders and trading Ed Davis might prove to be a pretty bad mistake in the long run. I'm not sure the Rapts care about that - they're tickled pink to be just winning more games.

 

[JCSunsfan]

There are some lessons in this about getting a #1 guy.

1. Some people will always say your guy is not a #1 guy since there will always be a #1 that is better than yours (unless you are Miami, Chicago, or the Lakers)

2. You will almost always have to give up what seems like more than equal value to get your guy (multiple players, picks, etc).

 

[Phrazbit]

It was a good idea to pass on him then and it is still a good idea to stay away now. We are going no where this year, he is overpaid, he would eat up a huge chunk of our space.

Its nice that Toronto is playing better but I am not jealous of them for having Rudy Gay locked down for 17 million a year while he shoots 39%.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It was a good idea to pass on him then and it is still a good idea to stay away now. We are going no where this year, he is overpaid, he would eat up a huge chunk of our space.

Its nice that Toronto is playing better but I am not jealous of them for having Rudy Gay locked down for 17 million a year while he shoots 39%.

I don't think that was really the point of this conversation. I agree we probably shouldn't have gone after him, we need more than one star and we need to be bad for a couple of years to re-stock the cupboard with young talent.

Steve