What would you give for Kevin Love

[SweetD]

I think Love is the perfect fit for the Suns. I would trade our #14- this year, Minnie's 1st and Morris twins. I might be even willing to included Goodwin.

Then I would see if a team would be willing to take Frye, cash and a 2nd rounder. Just to move his cap hit if he takes his option.

 

[Catlover]

I think Love is the perfect fit for the Suns. I would trade our #14- this year, Minnie's 1st and Morris twins. I might be even willing to included Goodwin.

Then I would see if a team would be willing to take Frye, cash and a 2nd rounder. Just to move his cap hit if he takes his option.

Love, added to our rotation would be great. If the chemistry worked and everyone stayed healthy we'd be an instant contender. Right there with any team that didm't have Lebron IMO. But add Love to our roster without Bledsoe and I think we just become the DesertWolves.

I love our flexibility this offseason. Hopefully we'll know soon whether our front office thinks they are still early in the rebuilding process or whether they think we are almost there and just need to upgrade a bit. If they think we're close to it, they'll probably trade away a lot of our picks along with a player or three to get someone that can replace Frye at a much higher level. IOW, Love. If we're still early in the rebuild I doubt we go in that direction.

 

[Phrazbit]

I'd trade our pick this year, Pacer pick this year, our pick next year and the Morris twins for Love... I'd do that in a heartbeat, extension locked down or not. I think the Wolves would probably want more though. If they had any interest in Len I'd toss him in but with Dieng and Pek on their roster I doubt they'd take Len for free, Green would also be put on the table as his scoring punch would be less necessary with Love on the squad and IMO Green's season was a bit flukey. I'd also try to get them to include Budinger in the deal as I think he'd be good in our system and blossom under Horny.

 

[elindholm]

At the start of the season I said that neither Bledsoe nor Dragic are really shooting guards and that neither (especially Bledsoe) is a point guard. I think Goran's shot improved enough that I am fine with him playing SG alongside a REAL point guard. He seems to be able to defend SGs better than PGs (With some exceptions, of course), and he has developed into a really good shooter.

I'm closer to thinking that Dragic is a real PG than you are, I guess. Part of it is that I really don't see him as a SG, even though apparently there are some stats that make him look good in that role. He has very little catch-and-shoot game other than three-pointers, and he really doesn't have the size or strength to compete with larger SGs. His poor ball-handling has always bothered me, and I remain amazed that he hasn't fixed it, but his penetration and passing skills are more than good enough to make him an above average PG.

Also, he's not particularly turnover-prone among PGs. His 3.8 TO/48 is well behind Westbrook (6.0), Curry (5.0), and Wall (4.8), for example, and on par with Irving (3.7).

 

[Catlover]

I'd trade our pick this year, Pacer pick this year, our pick next year and the Morris twins for Love... I'd do that in a heartbeat, extension locked down or not. I think the Wolves would probably want more though. If they had any interest in Len I'd toss him in but with Dieng and Pek on their roster I doubt they'd take Len for free, Green would also be put on the table as his scoring punch would be less necessary with Love on the squad and IMO Green's season was a bit flukey. I'd also try to get them to include Budinger in the deal as I think he'd be good in our system and blossom under Horny.

That's where you lose me. I would not trade those picks and the twins for one season of Love. Maybe, MAYBE, I'd do a reduced version of your offer it the agent gave us assurances that Love was looking at a Phoenix as a longtime destination. I don't see what one season gets us even if we get his Bird rights (I assume we do???) as we've all seen how little you get when it comes to a forced sign and trade deal.

What's your reasoning for giving up the Morris twins (along with Green and Len) and reasonably valuable draft picks for one season of Love? What does that get us? Do you think it's our best shot to win a championship and you're willing to gamble?

 

[Catlover]

I'm closer to thinking that Dragic is a real PG than you are, I guess. Part of it is that I really don't see him as a SG, even though apparently there are some stats that make him look good in that role. He has very little catch-and-shoot game other than three-pointers, and he really doesn't have the size or strength to compete with larger SGs. His poor ball-handling has always bothered me, and I remain amazed that he hasn't fixed it, but his penetration and passing skills are more than good enough to make him an above average PG.

Also, he's not particularly turnover-prone among PGs. His 3.8 TO/48 is well behind Westbrook (6.0), Curry (5.0), and Wall (4.8), for example, and on par with Irving (3.7).

Goran's 2.1 assist to turnover ratio is concerning though. He's not a horrible point guard, in fact, he's pretty good, but it's in large part because of his scoring. Put him in a more traditional offense and I think his turnovers will cause some problems. He's not as T/O prone as Westbrook but that's probably the only thing that keeps Russell from joining the top three conversation.

 

[Superbone]

http://bop.fm/s/lauren-wood/what-id-give-for-love

 

[Phrazbit]

That's where you lose me. I would not trade those picks and the twins for one season of Love. Maybe, MAYBE, I'd do a reduced version of your offer it the agent gave us assurances that Love was looking at a Phoenix as a longtime destination. I don't see what one season gets us even if we get his Bird rights (I assume we do???) as we've all seen how little you get when it comes to a forced sign and trade deal.

What's your reasoning for giving up the Morris twins (along with Green and Len) and reasonably valuable draft picks for one season of Love? What does that get us? Do you think it's our best shot to win a championship and you're willing to gamble?

I'd take the risk that we could convince Love to extend after spending the season here. No doubt our team would be MUCH better than the Lakers and the Suns as the team with his Bird Rights could offer him an extra year and an extra 20 million. I think its a gamble but one we'd likely win.

 

[devilalum]

IMO its going to take a deal like the Jazz got for D Williams.

 

[Catlover]

IMO its going to take a deal like the Jazz got for D Williams.

I don't remember the particulars on the draft picks but wouldn't the Morris brothers and 2 or 3 first rounders be in that ball park? Markieff Morris right now is a better asset than Favors or Devin Harris at that time, both of them were disappointments IIRC.

 

[elindholm]

Markieff Morris right now is a better asset than Favors or Devin Harris at that time, both of them were disappointments IIRC.

Harris was damaged goods, but Favors was (as he still is) a "hot prospect" that some people were (are) irrationally excited about. His numbers did get up to 13 and 9 this year and he is, somehow, still only 22 years old, so maybe he'll pan out yet.

In any case I would be quite confident that most GMs in the league would easily choose Favors over Markieff Morris straight-up.

 

[Phrazbit]

Yeah, Favors is quite a bit more valuable than Morris and was even more valuable a few years ago.

But I think its hard to compare one trade to another. Love's value is going to depend on the Wolves finally realizing they have no prayer of keeping him (as long as they're in denial of this then the amount to get them to listen is probably way too high) and who else tries to package an offer and what they have to work with. So what Utah got for Williams or Denver got for Carmelo does not really matter.

Who are the Suns going to be bidding against if Love ends up officially on the trade market? Obviously the Wolves wont give him up for a song but if the talk is true that Love wants to go somewhere much warmer preferably out West and to a team with realistic playoff aspirations then it limits the market.

I think they will end up taking an offer somewhere in the ball park of what we've been kicking around... or they will roll the dice, hope they make the playoffs next year and it convinces him to re-sign.

The team who could blow everyone else away is the Clippers. If they decide their current mix is not right and offered a Blake for Love swap then I dont see how the Wolves could walk away from that.

 

[devilalum]

Yeah, Favors is quite a bit more valuable than Morris and was even more valuable a few years ago.

But I think its hard to compare one trade to another. Love's value is going to depend on the Wolves finally realizing they have no prayer of keeping him .

If the Twolves trade Love this summer the situation is very similar. DWill still had a year left on his contract but the Jazz were worried he would leave. If they had waited til the next summer his trade value would have been much lower.

 

[Catlover]

Harris was damaged goods, but Favors was (as he still is) a "hot prospect" that some people were (are) irrationally excited about. His numbers did get up to 13 and 9 this year and he is, somehow, still only 22 years old, so maybe he'll pan out yet.

In any case I would be quite confident that most GMs in the league would easily choose Favors over Markieff Morris straight-up.

Yeah, Favors is quite a bit more valuable than Morris and was even more valuable a few years ago.

Although I thought they'd rushed to judgement, I was under the impression that Brooklyn was very disappointed in Favors his rookie season. I'd say Favors as a draft pick had more value than Morris does today but I'm not so sure he did at the time of the trade. Maybe my memory is off though.

You both seem convinced he'd be much more valued than Morris today but I'm not sure why unless it's felt he still has huge untapped potential. On the court they really don't seem to be all that much different. NBA reference has them almost identical in PER and Markieff has a big advantage in WS/48. I know Favors is a better rebounder and a better overall defender but I just don't think the difference in value between the two is all that great. I think I'd give a slight edge to Favors right now, I have no idea about ceiling though.

 

[elindholm]

You both seem convinced he'd be much more valued than Morris today but I'm not sure why unless it's felt he still has huge untapped potential.

Yeah, that's pretty much it. I'm not saying I feel that way, but it seems I read another couple of paragraphs of drool about Favors every month or two. He's almost two years younger than Morris, so the "potential" card is easier to play. As for which one I'd personally rather have, I don't know.

 

[elindholm]

Wow, speaking of Favors, he's a RFA this summer, in the same draft class as Bledsoe (2010). I hadn't realized that. His situation could be very interesting. He and Bledsoe are probably the top two on the "RFAs who will fetch a ridiculous offer from someone and put their current teams in really uncomfortable situations" list.

 

[PhxGametime]

Favors got extension with Jazz back in Nov.

I'd Trade:

Markieff Morris, Marcus Morris, Suns '14, Wizards '14, Pacers '14, Wolves Pick, and worst of Lakers '15/Suns '15 for Kevin Love and Chase Budinger. Chase would probably get picked on a lot by Suns fans but I think he'd be good fit.

Which has been my highest offer for Love; Budinger can fill the role I expected of Gerald Green (who was much better than I thought). Neither are great defenders but Love would give Suns a lot of what they need from PF. Spaces the floor more than Channing, posts better than Markieff, is great rebounder, passes well (Suns could run offense thru him with Bledsoe/Dragic injury), gets to the line even more-so than Bledsoe or Dragic, monster on offensive boards, and most importantly I don't know much about Draft Prospects this year lol.

 

[hcsilla]

Favors has already got his extension (49 mil./ 4 year).

If Minny trades Love, they are going into rebuilding mode so the Morris twins would hold very limited value in their eyes, IMO.

Love would be a very logical addition and improvement to that where the Suns stand now.

His outside shooting replaces Frye's, he is not a good defender but can more or less can defend (not very athletic) post-up players (just like Frye can) while his rebounding, passing and post-up play are a huge plus from the PF spot.

While his stats indicate a better player than Love actually is, he is still a legitimate star. Besides he seems a good teammate, a disciplined player and a hard-worker.

Teams (and Minnesota won't be an exception IMO) who put their star player on the market would prefer a high draft pick or a young player with star potential as the main part of the return package. The Suns have none.

Probably Boston or Cleveland can offer more desirable packages for Love than the Suns could.

 

[elindholm]

Ah, thanks for the corrections. Hoopshype isn't showing Favors's extension.

 

[HooverDam]

If Minny trades Love, they are going into rebuilding mode so the Morris twins would hold very limited value in their eyes, IMO.
.

The Morris twins are 24, how do they not fit into a rebuilding plan? They're not 19, but they're not "old" or anything. The Suns could also toss in Archie Goodwin if the Wolves want a real young, high upside, project kind of guy.

LA's pick should be a high one too, unless Kobe and Nash make amazing recoveries. Giving Minnesota their own pick back means another lottery pick too as sans Love they'll obviously win less next year.

So we're talking 2 lottery picks, 2 young players one of whom is a candidate for 6th Man and Most Improved. Thats not a shabby haul.

 

[KloD]

The Morris twins are 24, how do they not fit into a rebuilding plan? They're not 19, but they're not "old" or anything. The Suns could also toss in Archie Goodwin if the Wolves want a real young, high upside, project kind of guy.

LA's pick should be a high one too, unless Kobe and Nash make amazing recoveries. Giving Minnesota their own pick back means another lottery pick too as sans Love they'll obviously win less next year.

So we're talking 2 lottery picks, 2 young players one of whom is a candidate for 6th Man and Most Improved. Thats not a shabby haul.

Just to note. Giving Minny their pick back does not mean another lottery pick. If the pick is in the lottery, it's theirs. It's lottery protected I believe. It may only be top 13 protected, but without Love they likely don't finish that high anyway.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The Morris twins are 24, how do they not fit into a rebuilding plan? They're not 19, but they're not "old" or anything. The Suns could also toss in Archie Goodwin if the Wolves want a real young, high upside, project kind of guy.

LA's pick should be a high one too, unless Kobe and Nash make amazing recoveries. Giving Minnesota their own pick back means another lottery pick too as sans Love they'll obviously win less next year.

So we're talking 2 lottery picks, 2 young players one of whom is a candidate for 6th Man and Most Improved. Thats not a shabby haul.

About that Minny pick, if they (Minny) keep Love, they might lose it, if trade they him for it, they not only keep it, but it becomes a much better pick. For rebuilding purposes, it is a smart move.

Of course the Morris twins could be part of a rebuilding plan. In fact, they are still a quality part of our rebuilding plan, its just that they are expendable for the purpose of getting a star player.

The Suns really have no business making any moves right now except for a star player. The team is balanced, young, and has great chemistry. Its where Memphis was several years ago. Its just so hard to make the next move. It is at this point that teams start tweaking and twisting, making sideways moves that end up sending the team backwards (see Diamondbacks). Keep your young talent and let them develop together. Wait patiently for an opportunity to nab a star talent but don't settle for lesser deals.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Just to note. Giving Minny their pick back does not mean another lottery pick. If the pick is in the lottery, it's theirs. It's lottery protected I believe. It may only be top 13 protected, but without Love they likely don't finish that high anyway.

That's the point though. In order for Minny to benefit from that pick, they have to continue to be bad. If they continue to be bad, they lose Kevin Love. Here are their options.

1. Go for broke, improve their team, and the Suns get their pick and MAYBE that will be enough to convince Love to stay.
2. Keep the pick and do not trade Love and if they can't make the playoffs, they get a lotto pick but lose Love to free agency for nothing.
3. Trade Love and the pick, get a return for Love AND get a lotto pick.

If Minnesota is going to get a return for Kevin Love, they have to trade him this summer. Players lose their value significantly as you approach the trade deadline in a contract year. This especially true for small market teams. The Knicks gambled with Carmelo and won. The Lakers did with Dwight and lost.

 

[KloD]

That's the point though. In order for Minny to benefit from that pick, they have to continue to be bad. If they continue to be bad, they lose Kevin Love. Here are their options.

1. Go for broke, improve their team, and the Suns get their pick and MAYBE that will be enough to convince Love to stay.
2. Keep the pick and do not trade Love and if they can't make the playoffs, they get a lotto pick but lose Love to free agency for nothing.
3. Trade Love and the pick, get a return for Love AND get a lotto pick.

If Minnesota is going to get a return for Kevin Love, they have to trade him this summer. Players lose their value significantly as you approach the trade deadline in a contract year. This especially true for small market teams. The Knicks gambled with Carmelo and won. The Lakers did with Dwight and lost.

1) Money talks louder to some than the playoffs. I don't know much about Love, but Minn. can pay him a lot more than anyone else. So improving the team may not be the only way to convince him not to leave.
2) See above concerning the money & the only way they get nothing is if a team he wants to go to has the cap money to sign him outright. Often the teams with the money don't have much else. If Love leaves because he wants a better team to play for, that likely won't be one with the cap space to sign him to a max offer. Otherwise, they may be able to get something via a sign and trade.
3) Minn. has an awful history with the draft. I'm not sure a lottery pick is all that attractive to them. Maybe it is, but I would think they want something more that the Suns don't have on their roster at this time.

I'm not saying it's not possible. It is, but I'm not convinced the pick the Suns hold of their is all that attractive to them. I mean they've already traded it once to get rid of another of their draft failures.

 

[SirStefan32]

About that Minny pick, if they (Minny) keep Love, they might lose it, if trade they him for it, they not only keep it, but it becomes a much better pick. For rebuilding purposes, it is a smart move.

Of course the Morris twins could be part of a rebuilding plan. In fact, they are still a quality part of our rebuilding plan, its just that they are expendable for the purpose of getting a star player.

The Suns really have no business making any moves right now except for a star player. The team is balanced, young, and has great chemistry. Its where Memphis was several years ago. Its just so hard to make the next move. It is at this point that teams start tweaking and twisting, making sideways moves that end up sending the team backwards (see Diamondbacks). Keep your young talent and let them develop together. Wait patiently for an opportunity to nab a star talent but don't settle for lesser deals.

I agree with most of that, but I do believe that they HAVE to get some front court help. Suns have two players who at lest look like legitimate front court players (Markieff Morris and Miles Plumlee). I think Plumlee is fine as long as he plays next to a big PF, and Morris is fine as long as he plays next to a big Center, but by themselves they don't make a scary front court.

They have got to get some legitimate help at the two power positions. Obviously, I'd prefer Love or LMA, but if those guys are not available, the Suns need to make a trade for a PF or a C who is at lest competent in the low post and can provide some toughness in the paint.