What's the deal with training camp in Flag?

ajcardfan

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If they win, I don't give a damn where they have training camp. For 24 years, we've been the most inept franchise with the best place for training camp. Anything to turn that around... anything other than major felonies.
 

MoeIsBetter

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Jurecki made a good point today. It's a 24 year custom that probably only the people on this board, and a few others, ever attended. It wasn't till the Super Bowl that more people started going. Before that it was almost empty! Moving it to Glendale will draw the same amount as people, if not more. It's a great great income for Glendale as well.

The other thing Jurecki said that I agree with is players will be on the field more. No more two hour drives up and down the mountain. Whiz usually took Sundays off as they were travel days. In Glendale they will be on the field those days, even if its walk-throughs. Again, huge positive in my opinion.

I loved Flagstaff, but Glendale is good enough for me.
 

Chris_Sanders

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If they win, I don't give a damn where they have training camp. For 24 years, we've been the most inept franchise with the best place for training camp. Anything to turn that around... anything other than major felonies.

Or you could be a good franchise with the best training camp. I know we don't want to set the bar too high but having a poopy training camp does not equal a good franchise.
 

Chris_Sanders

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Jurecki made a good point today. It's a 24 year custom that probably only the people on this board, and a few others, ever attended. It wasn't till the Super Bowl that more people started going. Before that it was almost empty! Moving it to Glendale will draw the same amount as people, if not more. It's a great great income for Glendale as well.

The other thing Jurecki said that I agree with is players will be on the field more. No more two hour drives up and down the mountain. Whiz usually took Sundays off as they were travel days. In Glendale they will be on the field those days, even if its walk-throughs. Again, huge positive in my opinion.

I loved Flagstaff, but Glendale is good enough for me.

This isn't remotely factually correct. Last year training camp was so packed that people were arriving 6 hours before practice to find a spot.

It has been a huge draw since the team moved to the new stadium. A relevant team will draw fans, even if they were in Albuquerque.

I was at the fan fest in Glendale last year and it was a NIGHTMARE. Gigantic lines...blistering temperatures....stadium ran out of food. Sitting in your regular seats as opposed to just 10 feet from the action. It sucked ass.

But I am sure it was very profitable for the Cardinals...and thus here we are.
 

Dback Jon

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Stupid dumb idiot Cardinals.

Makes even less a reason to buy tickets.
 

THESMEL

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Well we can't use heat training as a competitive advantage - inside the UP! If they survive they'll be tough Mamma Jammas.
 

joeshmo

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Stupid move. Way to kill the only real "tradition" this team has established in 25 freaking years. Just ridiculous.

Speaking of tradition. Gene Stallings and Joe Bugel absolutely hated training camp up in Flagstaff. The reason for doing it at the time, it was the cheapest option at the time.
 

joeshmo

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This isn't remotely factually correct. Last year training camp was so packed that people were arriving 6 hours before practice to find a spot.

I think you are misinterpreting what was written about what MJ stated. Until we went to the super bowl like Jurecki said, training camps were a ghost town. He isn't talking about after the super bowl but prior to it. Even then, if it wasn't scrimmage week there was no reason to get there 6 hours beforehand to get a spot, you could show up a minute before and find a great spot.
 

joeshmo

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Or you could be a good franchise with the best training camp. I know we don't want to set the bar too high but having a poopy training camp does not equal a good franchise.

When you say best training camp, you mean that in terms of "for the fans" right. Because its without a doubt not in terms of best training camp for the players. Coaches and players a like do not like it.
 

Dback Jon

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When you say best training camp, you mean that in terms of "for the fans" right. Because its without a doubt not in terms of best training camp for the players. Coaches and players a like do not like it.

Fans pay the salaries of the coaches and players.

NFL and Cardinals are making the fan experience bad in many aspects. It may not affect this crop of players much, but overall, it will.
 

HeavyB3

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I'm happy about this, especially if they do evening practices. I could see myself going after work every day to a practice if them at like 5pm. Unfortunately, Training Camp always starts right as the back to school stuff is happening, so I can't take any days off. It's hard to get up to Flagstaff anymore, even though I loved training camp up there.
 

clif

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I was reading an article on cnn and this quote just seems to fit this scenario:

" Never have so many been so outraged by so little.
We live in a time of instant outrage. "
 

CardsFan88

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Well in the economic climate while I believe it would be best to forge a deal between NAU and the Cardinals, I do also know colleges are very hard hit while the NFL continues to see rising profits.

People don't realize that it now costs literally 20x as much to go to college now then it did in the mid 80's. ASU parking fees are insane (I remember paying 250 one year to park 2 miles from my classes probably around 2004, it's now well over double that). Now students have to buy health insurance AND meal tickets even if they never plan to use it. $150 books that they MIGHT get 20-30 bucks for if those particular books will be bought back.

So it's hard to blame NAU for not wanting to spend millions of dollars to build a dorm which it would then have to pass on the costs to it's students. Is every student supposed to pay an additional $100 this year (or next year) for school? Hell recently defaulted student loans surpassed credit card loans, and of course because of our great leader (of my party) the douche made it impossible to discharge this debt.

I place blame on the Cardinals since they are the ones that need the facilities more and it serves their purpose well, and they are most able to afford them. Part of business is creating goodwill in the community, and since 1994, the ARIZONA Cardinals are a statewide brand. Bringing Northern Arizona into the fold and feeling a part of the brand is important and building the dorms/holding training camp are a cheap and easy way to achieve that. It benefits both sides. Overall it is a situation where the Cardinals need to pony up and pay the lion share of the costs.

Some of the complaints can be assuaged by the building of new dorms. You have a new facility and thus one that is less likely to be infected by weird diseases. You can design them so they are more amenable to players so their experience isn't as bad.

If they all drive from home, even if it's more comfortable it will lack the team building that goes on when they are holed up in a dorm and where veterans will sometimes room with rookies and remove these benefits from our team. The soul of the team would be harmed. How much is of course uncertain and unmeasurable, but it won't be a good thing to remove it.

There are some pros, like we remove the risk of the team's major investment in players from driving, sometimes in a hurry up semi-treacherous roads that we have seen players get injured driving. The timing aspects of additional days off can be cut, but I really don't see that as a problem, as training camp counts per the CBA by actual days, not travel days, thus our camp can be a half a week longer in calendar days with the same number of actual practice days and it doesn't hurt the team being slightly spread out. If anything it might help lessen injury risk and allow rookies more time to absorb lessons, even if it is a minute influence from it being a limited occurrence.

The real only thing that would be fully supplanted by moving down would be the removal of needing to use the walkup sky dome. We've seen players get injured on the turf, but if memory serves correct it was recently replaced by the next turf stuff. Which would probably be enough given it was always a backup during lightning storms or really heavy rain.

But the fans of course will lose. Training camp was getting really big and growing. It's these sorts of events that really foster excitement and growth of the brand in Arizona. It's a way for Northern Arizona fans to get their fill, and provides a low cost vacation for Phoenix metro residents. An excuse to ditch the 105-115 degree days. Fans from Las Vegas to Albuquerque can readily make the trip.

Generally I think Bickley can be pretty horrible, but he recently made a great comment about the Cactus league and the Diamondbacks that I think applies here. We as a state love being able to watch and do things outdoors when possible. Cactus league games are the perfect time for baseball here in Phoenix, and it's why we can have significant draws at 6-7-8 locations at a time playing Cactus league games. It's why we can have 15 Cactus league teams in one metro area whereas in Florida it takes almost the entire state to match that. During the summer, the 'cactus league' experience is the Cardinals NFL training camp in Flagstaff. The Diamondbacks have a dome, the Cardinals have a dome. During regular season play it's too hot to not be in a dome (aside from early/late baseball season on occasion or some late season home football games), and thus it also helps complete the entire experience that people get to be outside with the team sometimes and inside others. Makes a nice balance.

Maybe the team can cut some costs and make some more money if it's in Glendale, but it comes at a price. Worse for fans. Worse for team camaraderie. Worse for brand building. Plus it reeks of giving everyone the big middle finger. As just has been reported the salary cap went up because of unexpected revenue increases, coupled with the insane TV deal, means NFL teams are flying high in this greatest depression and it doesn't send a good signal to let a relatively small amount of $$$ for an NFL team to be a wedge between it's fans, it's community, and the organization.

I believe it would be wise to foster the goodwill and pay for the dorm or the lion share of it. Get it done. Let the fans and nearby communities rejoice, keep the tradition alive, and be seen as a true member of the community in actions and not just Michael Bidwill's elucidated like a car salesman's words. This is the type of action people will remember. Donating and renovating football fields or whatever is GREAT. But THIS is what a big slice of fans will really remember.

Oh and clif, the instant outrage is because of constant delay of needed change. People are at a breaking point, because nothing that is needed to change, has been. They are feeling the effects, and those effects cause people to hold onto to few things in their life that is supposed to have meaning or be free of some sort of rot. It's innocence. People are pissed off, and have had it up to their chin in dealing with these things. Which also should mean to the Cardinals, that now is not the time to go against the wishes of people, because it'll piss them off far more now than it did a decade ago.
 
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jw7

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I was reading an article on cnn and this quote just seems to fit this scenario:

" Never have so many been so outraged by so little.
We live in a time of instant outrage. "

No, it is a huge deal if you like to plan your summer. Going to Flagstaff when it is 115 outside is a nice break. Going to Glendale on vacation days is a complete waste.
 

wa52lz

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I think you are misinterpreting what was written about what MJ stated. Until we went to the super bowl like Jurecki said, training camps were a ghost town. He isn't talking about after the super bowl but prior to it. Even then, if it wasn't scrimmage week there was no reason to get there 6 hours beforehand to get a spot, you could show up a minute before and find a great spot.
Ghost Town of 2008- look past the cute kid.
 

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BullheadCardFan

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Article on moving camp

Despite what NAU's president calls an "extraordinary" bid to keep the Arizona Cardinals' training camp in Flagstaff, the Birds might be moving to the University of Phoenix Stadium in Glendale this summer.

According to the terms of the 2010 contract, which has since expired, the Cardinals paid NAU a base annual fee of $73,435, an additional $228,758 for use of the Pine Ridge Village dorms as well as giving NAU a $225,000 deposit before the start of the camp.

Under the terms of the deal, the city of Flagstaff gave the Cards $32,000 annually.

The funds were to be used for radio and print ads in the Phoenix metropolitan area as well as renting time on one of the electronic billboards at University of Phoenix Stadium.

The ads promote year-round travel to Flagstaff, not just for the summer training camp. The amount given by the city to the NFL team has been cut back twice in the last two years.

The training camp is estimated to inject roughly $2.3 million into the Flagstaff economy annually, according to a study performed by the Arizona Rural Policy Institute at NAU
Link
 

Mulli

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I was reading an article on cnn and this quote just seems to fit this scenario:

" Never have so many been so outraged by so little.
We live in a time of instant outrage. "

Yes
 

AZ Native

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Mike Jurecki just posted this:

You must be registered for see images attach
 

joeshmo

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Fans pay the salaries of the coaches and players.

NFL and Cardinals are making the fan experience bad in many aspects. It may not affect this crop of players much, but overall, it will.

Considering profits are getting higher and higher, and ratings are getting higher and higher, team values are getting higher and higher, not sure fans really care about these so called bad experiences. Not going to effect the players one bit for a very long time.
 

joeshmo

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Ghost Town of 2008- look past the cute kid.

Read the post again. Any other day time but scrimmage week and it was a ghost town. You posted pictures of scrimmage week.
 

RedViper

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NAU rejected an offer for a one year deal for training camp this summer. Apparently, they are ready to deal with losing Cardinal Camp this year instead of next. Also makes me wonder how well negotiations are going with Glendale.
 
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