What's the deal with training camp in Flag?

[Reddog]

Mike Jurecki just posted this:

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Why in the world would the Cardinals trust the city of Glendale to execute properly. They appear to be incredibly inept. Selling a huge number of parking spaces to an outlet mall that they were contractually obligated to provide the Cardinals in plenty of reason to not get any deeper with those fools. Fool me once shame on you...fool me twice and I am the idiot.

 

[HeavyB3]

Let's be clear about one thing though, fan experience or no fan experience, this is a move to ensure that the area where the Cardinals plays games stays alive. Westgate is a ghost town during the week if there is nothing going on at Jobbing.com. I think this is a good move for Glendale (they really need the money), and a good long term move by the Cardinals to help prop up the businesses outside the stadium that are vital for many people on Game Day. Got to have places for fans to go before and after games when they don't want to tailgate.

This obviously sucks for Flagstaff, but the Cardinals were far better to Flagstaff than they were to the Cardinals. I think Glendale will appreciate having training camp in their city and will market and promote it. This also gives kids in the area a chance to go check out the Cardinals and see the stadium without having to pay to get in. Got to win over the children so we have less and less opposing teams fans in that stadium as the years go on.

Plus, I'll get to go to training camp this year since school starts on July 22nd in my district and I won't be able to take any days off for the first few weeks of school. So, selfishly, this is fantastic.

 

[Scott MS]

NAU rescinded their offers to the Cardinals for training camp. I was kind of surprised about two of the stipulations in the NAU Offer from the quote below.

“They also added new elements, which we saw as unfavorable for the team and Cardinals fans. Examples of that include NAU charging fans for parking for the first time ever and adding a commission to Cardinals merchandise sold at training camp,” Dalton said in a statement.

 

[Arizona_Steve]

All of this makes me glad that I went up to Flagstaff last year to photograph one of the practices. It will not be the same without the backdrop of mountains and pine trees.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Considering profits are getting higher and higher, and ratings are getting higher and higher, team values are getting higher and higher, not sure fans really care about these so called bad experiences. Not going to effect the players one bit for a very long time.

Yeah, I mean, who really gives a crap about the fans? Teams have them by the balls, and can crap all over them, but as long as they're still obscenely rich and fans continue to accept it, the ends justify the means, right?

 

[joeshmo]

Yeah, I mean, who really gives a crap about the fans? Teams have them by the balls, and can crap all over them, but as long as they're still obscenely rich and fans continue to accept it, the ends justify the means, right?

If fans are accepting it, you better believe business speaking the ends without a doubt justify the means.

If Nike can sell you a $100 pair of shoes but it only costs them $5 to make, they should sell it for only $10 out of the kindness of their heart. I mean they are still doubling their money.

We aren't talking about non-profit organizations here. Business peeps, especially billionaires are pretty cold hearted.

 

[crisper57]

NAU rescinded their offers to the Cardinals for training camp. I was kind of surprised about two of the stipulations in the NAU Offer from the quote below.

Sounds like NAU really didn't want the Cards back. They sure didn't go out of their way to fight to keep the team in town. Stupid.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

If fans are accepting it, you better believe business speaking the ends without a doubt justify the means.

If Nike can sell you a $100 pair of shoes but it only costs them $5 to make, they should sell it for only $10 out of the kindness of their heart. I mean they are still doubling their money.

We aren't talking about non-profit organizations here. Business peeps, especially billionaires are pretty cold hearted.

Glad you're so fond of this philosophy, makes the world a better place. Personally, I'll sleep better at night knowing the Bidwills and Nike's will be swimming in their Scrooge McDuck money pools and not giving a crap about your average fans.

For the rest of us, we realize it's reality, but that doesn't mean that it's not a giant FU to the fans. You sure won't catch me driving out to the west side in the middle of summer to watch drills.

 

[az jam]

I know that I am in a minority position on the board but being retired I prefer to drive out to Glendale and watch them practice then going to Flagstaff. Don't have to pay for a hotel, meals, etc.

 

[moosehead]

Looks like it's done. http://www.azfamily.com/sports/foot...rizona-Cardinals-training-camp-200599991.html

I do also know colleges are very hard hit while the NFL continues to see rising profits.

I can tell you that in spite of the perception of deep pockets and bloat that on basic operational levels, the Universities are hurting bad. I work for one of the Universities in a Director-level position and can tell you that in many areas there's just no money. I happened to be at an ABOR Finance Sub-Cmte meeting yesterday and all 3 Universities are painting the same picture.

 

[RedViper]

As a Flagstaff resident and long time season ticket holder, I will miss Cardinal Camp. Even before I moved up here 10 years ago, I made the trek up from Phoenix on occasion both to see the team and get out of the furnace for a weekend. I know a lot of people that did too and watching camp in Flagstaff in August was at least half the fun. As a team that barely has any traditions, I think Cardinals Camp was a tradition that a lot of people enjoyed. It will be missed. People can argue how much but ASU has shown that people missed their camp in the pines a lot. Enough to bring it back.

I talked to two people here in Flagstaff yesterday that I never knew as Cardinals fans and never saw at camp that thought NAU blew it by not taking a one year deal. That NAU should have held on as long as possible. I was surprised by that.

From NAU's point of view, I don't really see what Cardinal Camp does for them. I've heard that Cards camp injects 10 million into the Flagstaff economy on one hand. On the other, I've heard there was no noticeable effect on the economy in 2005 when the Cards went to Prescott. Even if we assume it helps Flagstaff's economy, how would that help NAU? Unless they are really seeing a profit in housing the team, I don't see any obvious benefits for NAU at all. Its not like all those Cards fans rush over to the bookstore and buy a lot of NAU swag on their way out of town. I think the number of kids who come to Cards camp and decide they will go to NAU as a result would be marginal at best.

My last point, is the Cards did their best to trash NAU on their way out of town, portraying this as the result of NAU's greed headed scam to charge for parking and getting a cut of the merchandising as the culprit in their decision. To me this obviously didn't seem like the deal breaker if the Cards were still willing to make a one year deal. That said, if they do get into bed with Glendale, they better expect an attitude both from Glendale government and citizens of "what's in it for us?" Glendale is the nar do well of all the Valley cities and their forays into the major league sports, so far, have been seen as a boondoggle of biblical proportions. The Cards will be dealing with government officials under massive pressure to show their outraged citizens, "this is in your best interest." Any juncture where its even conceivable to pass the costs onto the Big Money Cardinals or their fans, Glendale better be able to show that they took full advantage. Anyway, we'll see how it turns out. At the end of everything, all I really want out of the Cardinals is consistently winning football. Winning cures everything, it always will.

 

[BigRedRage]

Glad you're so fond of this philosophy, makes the world a better place. Personally, I'll sleep better at night knowing the Bidwills and Nike's will be swimming in their Scrooge McDuck money pools and not giving a crap about your average fans.

For the rest of us, we realize it's reality, but that doesn't mean that it's not a giant FU to the fans. You sure won't catch me driving out to the west side in the middle of summer to watch drills.

So, Nike shouldnt charge $100 for the shoes even though people will pay it?

the glendale practice is free, all the people who cant afford nor have time to go to flag can go to glendale much easier. I dont see why that makes the owners bad billionaires.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

So, Nike shouldnt charge $100 for the shoes even though people will pay it?

Nike obviously does whatever it wants, whether it be to charge hundreds of dollars for shoes, or to use slave labor overseas to maximize profit, because really, being rich excuses nearly every behavior, and many people who don't benefit at all from their actions celebrate it.

It's a very strange mindset.

I dont see why that makes the owners bad billionaires.

What makes them "bad billionaires" is the fact that they've been arguably the worst football owners in the NFL, and many decisions that they've made have shown zero regard for the fans.

Now they've taken away really the only tradition the team has (and usually the best part of many seasons) to make more profit and move from 80's and the most beautiful setting in the NFL to f'n Glendale in the heart of summer.

Whoopie! I should be thrilled!

 

[az jam]

Nice writeup RedViper. As you said there are two sides to every story. Its sad that a nice tradition will be over.

 

[HeavyB3]

As a Flagstaff resident and long time season ticket holder, I will miss Cardinal Camp. Even before I moved up here 10 years ago, I made the trek up from Phoenix on occasion both to see the team and get out of the furnace for a weekend. I know a lot of people that did too and watching camp in Flagstaff in August was at least half the fun. As a team that barely has any traditions, I think Cardinals Camp was a tradition that a lot of people enjoyed. It will be missed. People can argue how much but ASU has shown that people missed their camp in the pines a lot. Enough to bring it back.

I talked to two people here in Flagstaff yesterday that I never knew as Cardinals fans and never saw at camp that thought NAU blew it by not taking a one year deal. That NAU should have held on as long as possible. I was surprised by that.

From NAU's point of view, I don't really see what Cardinal Camp does for them. I've heard that Cards camp injects 10 million into the Flagstaff economy on one hand. On the other, I've heard there was no noticeable effect on the economy in 2005 when the Cards went to Prescott. Even if we assume it helps Flagstaff's economy, how would that help NAU? Unless they are really seeing a profit in housing the team, I don't see any obvious benefits for NAU at all. Its not like all those Cards fans rush over to the bookstore and buy a lot of NAU swag on their way out of town. I think the number of kids who come to Cards camp and decide they will go to NAU as a result would be marginal at best.

My last point, is the Cards did their best to trash NAU on their way out of town, portraying this as the result of NAU's greed headed scam to charge for parking and getting a cut of the merchandising as the culprit in their decision. To me this obviously didn't seem like the deal breaker if the Cards were still willing to make a one year deal. That said, if they do get into bed with Glendale, they better expect an attitude both from Glendale government and citizens of "what's in it for us?" Glendale is the nar do well of all the Valley cities and their forays into the major league sports, so far, have been seen as a boondoggle of biblical proportions. The Cards will be dealing with government officials under massive pressure to show their outraged citizens, "this is in your best interest." Any juncture where its even conceivable to pass the costs onto the Big Money Cardinals or their fans, Glendale better be able to show that they took full advantage. Anyway, we'll see how it turns out. At the end of everything, all I really want out of the Cardinals is consistently winning football. Winning cures everything, it always will.

NAU got upgrades to their football facilities, which had to be made to be on par with NFL facilities. I remember when they got Emmit Smith and the stadium was still under construction they did a practice at Glendale High School. The Cardinals put in a brand new field because the old field did not meet NFL requirements. I'd say that upgrades to the football facilities for NAU is a pretty good deal for them and the millions of dollars in tourism Flagstaff received was a good deal for them.

It's business though. The Cardinals want to make as much money as possible, obviously. They simply took the better deal.

 

[gimpy]

The Cardinals pay for that?

 

[52brandon]

Nike obviously does whatever it wants, whether it be to charge hundreds of dollars for shoes, or to use slave labor overseas to maximize profit, because really, being rich excuses nearly every behavior, and many people who don't benefit at all from their actions celebrate it.

It's a very strange mindset.






What makes them "bad billionaires" is the fact that they've been arguably the worst football owners in the NFL, and many decisions that they've made have shown zero regard for the fans.

Now they've taken away really the only tradition the team has (and usually the best part of many seasons) to make more profit and move from 80's and the most beautiful setting in the NFL to f'n Glendale in the heart of summer.

Whoopie! I should be thrilled!

it's air conditioned, no? I loved checking out camp in flag, but don't have the 3 hours driving time to check it out as often as I'd like. Now that it will be 20 minutes away, I can check it out more often

 

[Stop Whining]

Just like Camp T for the Devils, I understand tradition and also that people hate change. Flag was a nice reprieve for Cardinal fans from the scorching heat for who made the trip up. But for the Cards to break into the Big Boys Club and and perform as a Big Boy Team some traditions need to be broke. The NFL is big business and owning a NFL team requires big money. Ive have zero problems with them wanting to make a dollar and a cent in this business and to hopefully run this club to the best of their abilities. Glendale will pull more fans, me, to every open training camp therefore generating more revenue to operate as a Big Boy Team. Time to grow up along with the team.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

it's air conditioned, no? I loved checking out camp in flag, but don't have the 3 hours driving time to check it out as often as I'd like. Now that it will be 20 minutes away, I can check it out more often

Yeah, I'll be interested to see how many people actually show up. Just like the FBR Open is a party under the guise of being a golf tourney, training camp in Flag is an excuse to spend some time in perfect weather, in the most beautiful setting possible.

Take that away, and I think people will be less excited to watch drills, which much of TC is.

 

[CardsFan88]

Yeah, I'll be interested to see how many people actually show up. Just like the FBR Open is a party under the guise of being a golf tourney, training camp in Flag is an excuse to spend some time in perfect weather, in the most beautiful setting possible.

Take that away, and I think people will be less excited to watch drills, which much of TC is.

I don't know where people will stand in a bubble, especially one that could go Cowboys or Sun Devils and crash at any time during monsoon season.

But I thought I heard they would play in the stadium for some practices, which means it seems it's going to be a thing where fewer practices are open to the public. Not something you can go to day after day.

 

[moosehead]

Looking like they're having a hard time making a deal with anybody...

http://www.azcentral.com/community/...cardinals-training-camp-proposal-stalled.html

 

[Buckybird]

Looking like they're having a hard time making a deal with anybody...

http://www.azcentral.com/community/...cardinals-training-camp-proposal-stalled.html

Jeez...such penny pinching by rich ownership!!! The Cards wanted to be home for TC, they should build their own parking garage if they want one. Sometimes, situations like this make you think, the greed of Mr B hasn't changed one bit.

 

[Duckjake]

Just make a deal with Arizona Western University. Training Camp there will make those guys "Cardinal Tough"!

 

[joeshmo]

Jeez...such penny pinching by rich ownership!!! The Cards wanted to be home for TC, they should build their own parking garage if they want one. Sometimes, situations like this make you think, the greed of Mr B hasn't changed one bit.

Penny pinching or shrewd business and the reason why these guys are so freaking rich. Is it penny pinching to get the tax payers to pay for your stadium as well, yet every team under the sun gets it. Is it penny pinching to get tax breaks if you move your warehouse or fabricating facility to a certain county, yet business's do it all the time.

Such is the life of rich arse business/famous peeps, asking for and then getting things for free. Its just the way of the world.

 

[CardLogic]

I won't be surprised when training camp is held at the Cardinals' training facility at Warner and Hardy. Also, the practices will be closed to the public.


End of an era.