Where are all the pro shaq fans and marion bashers now?

[dreamcastrocks]

They didnt HAVE to do the deal for SHAQ. They likely couldve made other deals. Perhaps they waited too long until some key pieces like Gasol, had already been moved. You'll never know.

Gasol was never an option, for any other team. Memphis wouldn't return calls from ANY team. They openly sought the Lakers in the trade.

 

[az1965]

I don't think the team is any worse now then they were pre-trade, just now the schedule got tougher and the results are showing.

It isn't like the Suns were dominating the league before the trade. I would venture to say that if the Suns record against the top West teams was good then the trade wouldn't have been made.

I do think that this current team has a much higher ceiling then it did pre-trade, but whether they reach it or not is anyone's guess.

I don't disagree on the state of the team. The pre-trade team was not going to win it all. Its just they made a desperate move and not a smart one.

 

[jagu]

The Suns pre-trade would have went out fast in the playoffs. This team might too but at least theres a chance. I just hope Amare plays some defense for once in his life.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

The Suns pre-trade would have went out fast in the playoffs. This team might too but at least theres a chance. I just hope Nash plays some defense for once in his life.

fixed that for you

 

[jagu]

lol i agree , they all need to. Raja Bell the "lockdown" defender? Not this year. The West is insane. We are worried about the Spurs/Jazz/Lakers/Dallas and Houston is out there winning 17 straight. Every team is a powerhouse. Whoever wins this year deserves it because its not going to be easy.

 

[Feeble Mcjackson]

Suns point differential per 48 minutes
Marion on Court Marion off Court Difference
2007-08 +9.6 -1.5 +11.1
2006-07 +9.7 +0.5 +10.2
2005-06 +6.5 +1.9 +4.6
2004-05 +10.5 -3.1 +14.6

from great article by john hollinger today http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insi...in02=stateChanged&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab2pos1

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Suns point differential per 48 minutes
Marion on Court Marion off Court Difference
2007-08 +9.6 -1.5 +11.1
2006-07 +9.7 +0.5 +10.2
2005-06 +6.5 +1.9 +4.6
2004-05 +10.5 -3.1 +14.6

from great article by john hollinger today http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insi...in02=stateChanged&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab2pos1

While its clear there is a major point differential, turnovers is the #1 problem right now. The amount of shot attempts, points off turnovers etc that they have been commiting, they win every game that they have played since the Shaq trade, outside the Detroit game IMO.

If they are able to do that, then the Suns will be just fine. I don't think you can just say, "Marion is the cause of the point differential" without looking through a wider lens.

 

[green machine]

While its clear there is a major point differential, turnovers is the #1 problem right now. The amount of shot attempts, points off turnovers etc that they have been commiting, they win every game that they have played since the Shaq trade, outside the Detroit game IMO.

If they are able to do that, then the Suns will be just fine. I don't think you can just say, "Marion is the cause of the point differential" without looking through a wider lens.

Yeah, and Marion never turned the ball over because he never dribbled. He was catch and either shoot or give it back to Nash.

Ideally Shaq will make up for the turnovers by getting extra possessions that the Suns did not get before (like preventing offensive rebounds), and also be a more efficient offensive player.

 

[doomsday]

If his problem in Miami and Lakers was to win championships for them, we Suns fans would love to have that problem as well.

At this point, the Suns have no chance of winning with Shaq. All I'm saying is that he is a fluke. Trust me, Shaq was not the main reason why the Lakers and Heat won championships. There was always controversy but luckily for him, he had Kobe and Wade to carry the team when he felt lazy and out of shape. His work ethics are horrendous and will always take credit for doing nothing. Let me give you an example.

When Shaq came to Phoenix he stated he would help Amare become a better player. Now, all of a sudden, all broadcasters are relating Amare's great play to Shaq. That is BS and Amare should feel offended. Shaq has not mde him better period. But the media is running with it. Shaq is extremely selfish and a complete fluke. He wil take credit whenever an opportunity presents itself.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

At this point, the Suns have no chance of winning with Shaq. All I'm saying is that he is a fluke. Trust me, Shaq was not the main reason why the Lakers and Heat won championships. There was always controversy but luckily for him, he had Kobe and Wade to carry the team when he felt lazy and out of shape. His work ethics are horrendous and will always take credit for doing nothing. Let me give you an example.

When Shaq came to Phoenix he stated he would help Amare become a better player. Now, all of a sudden, all broadcasters are relating Amare's great play to Shaq. That is BS and Amare should feel offended. Shaq has not mde him better period. But the media is running with it. Shaq is extremely selfish and a complete fluke. He wil take credit wheever an opportunity presents itself.

I don't trust you. Hell, show me a Lakers fan that thinks that they could have a the championship without Shaq, or a Miami fan that could have won with their pre-Shaq roster.

This is absurd.

Welcome to ASFN btw.

 

[jandaman]

At this point, the Suns have no chance of winning with Shaq. All I'm saying is that he is a fluke. Trust me, Shaq was not the main reason why the Lakers and Heat won championships. There was always controversy but luckily for him, he had Kobe and Wade to carry the team when he felt lazy and out of shape. His work ethics are horrendous and will always take credit for doing nothing. Let me give you an example.

When Shaq came to Phoenix he stated he would help Amare become a better player. Now, all of a sudden, all broadcasters are relating Amare's great play to Shaq. That is BS and Amare should feel offended. Shaq has not mde him better period. But the media is running with it. Shaq is extremely selfish and a complete fluke. He wil take credit whenever an opportunity presents itself.

In comparison to the dream, the admiral.. etc.. I've always put them higher than Shaq, Shaq's prime was due when the golden age of centers declined a lot.

Shaq played damn great and still Hakeem got him swept...


Shaq as a laker during that run, with help from Phil Jackson, Kobe and a very good roster of role players... Shaq was pretty important in that dynasty.... almost 30/12/2.5 on 60% FG against a handful of centers, declined admiral, Mutombo (Mutombo actualy did good in containing Shaq to his averages hehe, but Mutombo and the sixers just were outgunned)

 

[Covert Rain]

Shaq is done,period.

So done that comparing him to other centers in the NBA......

Shaq
FGM =#7
Defensive Rebounding = #12
Assists from Centers = #7
Blocks #11
FG% = #10

League Average Scoring (Centers) = 8.3..... (Shaq =10)
League Average Rebounding (Centers) = 5.9.....(Shaq = 11.3)
League Average Blocks (Centers) = 0.9..... (Shaq = 1.4)

Yep. Shaq is completely done.

 

[MiamiHeat]

HEAT do not win a championship with only wade or only shaq. they needed the whole team, but wade did excel the most. for instance, when shaq missed playoff games while in miami, WADE sweeped the wizards, eliminated the Nets, etc....... when WADE missed a playoff game vs DET in the ECF 2005, shaq-led HEAT lost by 30 points.

but there's no way we win without shaq. he was vital, even if he was more of a big roleplayer than a guy who carried the team like wade

 

[green machine]

HEAT do not win a championship with only wade or only shaq. they needed the whole team, but wade did excel the most. for instance, when shaq missed playoff games while in miami, WADE sweeped the wizards, eliminated the Nets, etc....... when WADE missed a playoff game vs DET in the ECF 2005, shaq-led HEAT lost by 30 points.

but there's no way we win without shaq. he was vital, even if he was more of a big roleplayer than a guy who carried the team like wade

Heat do not win a championship without the refs blowing a whistle every time a Maverick looked at Wade funny.

 

[nowagimp]

In comparison to the dream, the admiral.. etc.. I've always put them higher than Shaq, Shaq's prime was due when the golden age of centers declined a lot.

Shaq played damn great and still Hakeem got him swept...

In head to head competition, Hakeem just embarassed the admiral, patrick ewing, mourning, all those "golden era" centers just couldnt handle hakeem. I dont hold this against a young shaq , hakeem was perhaps the best all around center ever once he learned to play ball(he started at 19 years old, so he just didnt learn how to really play the game for about 5-6 years into his pro career). Shaq can say hakeem taught him the ropes ... at NBA center school.

 

[MiamiHeat]

Heat do not win a championship without the refs blowing a whistle every time a Maverick looked at Wade funny.

Suns still have how many rings?

stop trolling me for no reason

 

[passenger]

So done that comparing him to other centers in the NBA......

Shaq
FGM =#7
Defensive Rebounding = #12
Assists from Centers = #7
Blocks #11
FG% = #10

League Average Scoring (Centers) = 8.3..... (Shaq =10)
League Average Rebounding (Centers) = 5.9.....(Shaq = 11.3)
League Average Blocks (Centers) = 0.9..... (Shaq = 1.4)

Yep. Shaq is completely done.

Read what I wrote again,

"Shaq is done,period.This was a horrible trade.I was actually so surprised to see some/most Suns fans here was happy after the trade.Surprised because anyone who has been following NBA last 8 years would see the fall down of Shaq year by year.Maybe because of his "past",his "rings",people still expect from him..But Shaq is much slower now,not enough mobility,lots of turnovers a game for a center,he was injured several times and gets injured often,I will be surprised if he plays 2/3 rd of the games in his Suns career.Some see him as messiah or something "He brought a ring to Heat,he'll do the same for us",he helped Miami in early years but Wade made them champion.Suns needed more athletic type of center and a good PG backup,a good shooter forward.Shaq doesn't fit Suns' style,he's clogging Nash,Barbosa.

When we criticized the trade,we got insulted,we were called trolls,etc,not knowing a jog about basketball,after each loss "it's just one game!" responses.We are 3-5 since the trade,and believe me if Kerr has made this trade last summer,now we were right behind Sacramento.

I agree with some posts,trading Marion is not the problem,getting an old,slow center and paying him huge money is."

Shaq is not Ilgauskas,Okur,Brad Miller,Howard,Yao and more others,I don't care what rankings say.

 

[GorrilaLips]

Even with how the Suns have been playing.....Im STILL not against the trade. I think, given the circumstances.....this trade should have happened at the beginning of the season for a good adjustment. Remember, the Suns suck every year at the beginning of the season with the tried-and-through system or run and gun D'Antoni system; they still suck it up at the start.

Throw Shaq in the gears and you think within a few games or 10 the team is going to adjust that quickly while every other team in the league is well adjusted to their players? Here's the deal, I agree with newstalk radio....I think it was Wolf.....as long as the suns make it to the playoffs....the pace is going to slow down, the suns will have gotten better with every game and adjustment and they are able to compete better. It's a whole different world between the playoffs and reg. season.

Im not sweating it....Im actually looking forward to the end of the season and how this all plays out. Im just dissapointed that we haven't been winning any games recently. Shaq was looking good tonight, and Marion's Heats weren't too hot either....

 

[doomsday]

I don't trust you. Hell, show me a Lakers fan that thinks that they could have a the championship without Shaq, or a Miami fan that could have won with their pre-Shaq roster.

This is absurd.

Welcome to ASFN btw.

I never said they could have won it without Shaq. I'm talking only about Shaq and his way of being. It is a team sport and it would be "absurd" to say Shaq was not needed. My statements are very clear and there is no need to over analyze what I said. I am not taking anything away from Shaq's accomplishments but he will only work hard when he feels like it. It is something Phoenix Suns fans will have to deal with.



I am not a Phoenix Suns fan at all I will admit. But I will say that they were very good for the NBA with their fast pace running game. Now, they look tired and opponents are no longer backing down. Notice I said, "were?" The trade was bad for the team and if time is what Shaq is asking for, than it is time he will get because the Suns are stuck with him.

Glad I'm welcomed.Thanks

 

[dreamcastrocks]

bump for thread title.

 

[green machine]

Notice this "MiamiHeat" character has mysteriously stopped posting since Shaq and the Suns have started to look good on the court and win games.

Hmm....

 

[S_Nash]

Apparently he's got back spasms and probably won't be back on this board until next season. In the meantime, I heard he's watching the NCAA tourney very closely ...

 

[GorrilaLips]

Notice this "MiamiHeat" character has mysteriously stopped posting since Shaq and the Suns have started to look good on the court and win games.

Hmm....

it's funny you brought that up. I always thought he was trolling around and had a personal vendetta like attitude towards shaq. Reason being is that, whenever he got called out; he would start other threads that seem to benefit the suns forum like posting upcoming road game schedules and how the suns will need certain elements to win the game etc. etc. I remember him specifically deleting his own thread and taking back what he wrote when he said something to the effect of ..."yeah, that's why shaunie Nelson was leaving Shaq" and it was in response to me saying something like Marion's Heats aren't looking good either.

Whatever....he's a troll in disquise and Sanders will see that later on.

 

[French Fries]

Notice this "MiamiHeat" character has mysteriously stopped posting since Shaq and the Suns have started to look good on the court and win games.

Hmm....

try posting a "hate riley" thread and he might show up again