Where will Jimmy Butler end up? 2025 edition

[SirStefan32]

I don’t think it’s his choice. A player has to agree to sign with your team, and nobody any good wants to sign to a bad team, which we will certainly be.

I guess we'll see, but I don't see the Suns being a bad team. I think it would be reasonable to say they may not be a serious contender, but there is no way they will be bad.

 

[Covert Rain]

The really good players will have all kinds of teams wanting to pay them, those guys are not options for bad teams... which we will be.

You are painting a picture where we are the team that signs dudes like Kyle Kuzma and Jerami Grant 40 million a year.

And we won't be able to swing a meaningful trade for top talent for a long long time because of our total lack of assets, this we're already seeing. We've got a star going above and beyond to poison his relationship with his team to force his way here and it doesn't matter because the heat would be better off waiving him than taking the junk we can offer.

Yet Ishbia continues to maneuver when everyone says there at are no more options. We heard that for months leading up to him unlocking the next 6 drafts. Plus teams do things that scratch your head all the time.

Until I see him sit on his hands I have no reason to believe he will let the team bottom out. That doesn’t seem to be in his his vocabulary.

 

[GatorAZ]

Yet Ishbia continues to maneuver when everyone says there at are no more options. We heard that for months leading up to him unlocking the next 6 drafts. Plus teams do things that scratch your head all the time.

Until I see him sit on his hands I have no reason to believe he will let the team bottom out. That doesn’t seem to be in his his vocabulary.

.
The Suns bottoming out may be out of his control. We’re a borderline playoff team at full health and our best player in season 18. Reminds me of the Kobe Lakers after their championships. Things just kept getting bleaker and bleaker until they were maxed out with old Kobe and mediocre role players.

 

[Covert Rain]

.
The Suns bottoming out may be out of his control. We’re a borderline playoff team at full health and our best player in season 18. Reminds me of the Kobe Lakers after their championships. Things just kept getting bleaker and bleaker until they were maxed out with old Kobe and mediocre role players.

Absolutely could be out of his hands but IMO it won’t be because Ishbia sat on his.

 

[Phrazbit]

Yet Ishbia continues to maneuver when everyone says there at are no more options. We heard that for months leading up to him unlocking the next 6 drafts. Plus teams do things that scratch your head all the time.

Until I see him sit on his hands I have no reason to believe he will let the team bottom out. That doesn’t seem to be in his his vocabulary.

Again, that draft swap was just digging a deeper hole. Once more giving away something with high value and leveraging the future.

Ishbia being highly active is a huge problem so far. We’d be better off if he’d been sitting on his hands the last several years.

 

[Covert Rain]

Again, that draft swap was just digging a deeper hole. Once more giving away something with high value and leveraging the future.

Ishbia being highly active is a huge problem so far. We’d be better off if he’d been sitting on his hands the last several years.

You missed the point entirely. It shows that Ishbia even when people say he has nothing else up his sleeve keeps proving people wrong. Besides if he does what you said, it's a guarantee bottom out. I will put my faith in Ishbia being able to keep us competitive until the proof says otherwise.

 

[Germz249]

I just feel we could never be happy until we win championships..

We had a owner who didn’t spend money and people were pissed..

We have a owner who spends money and people are pissed..

 

[Cheesebeef]

I just feel we could never be happy until we win championships..

We had a owner who didn’t spend money and people were pissed..

We have a owner who spends money and people are pissed..

I was pretty happy with 2021 and most of 2022 until we bent over and let the Mavs spit-roast us.

For me, a title would be amazing, but I just want a fun team that can at least win a round or two or at least play a hell of a series and go down swinging in the end.

The only time I could walk away from any season during the last 15 years was when a CP3-led Suns squad, weird Covid year and a rash of injuries gave us a great playoff run that came up just short. That’s a REALLY long time to watch pretty uninspiring basketball for the most part.

 

[Superbone]

I just feel we could never be happy until we win championships..

We had a owner who didn’t spend money and people were pissed..

We have a owner who spends money and people are pissed..

Winning a championship might not even be enough.

 

[Covert Rain]

I was pretty happy with 2021 and most of 2022 until we bent over and let the Mavs spit-roast us.

For me, a title would be amazing, but I just want a fun team that can at least win a round or two or at least play a hell of a series and go down swinging in the end.

The only time I could walk away from any season during the last 15 years was when a CP3-led Suns squad, weird Covid year and a rash of injuries gave us a great playoff run that came up just short. That’s a REALLY long time to watch pretty uninspiring basketball for the most part.

I diverge a bit. A fun team is about as satisfying as a piece of Stripes gum that loses it's flavor after 10 minutes. It's just not good enough. However, I can live with a team that is fun, goes down swinging and had a legit chance even if they fall short. Anything else is window dressing.

 

[Mainstreet]

I just feel we could never be happy until we win championships..

We had a owner who didn’t spend money and people were pissed..

We have a owner who spends money and people are pissed..

That's the goal, but I was happy with the Nash led teams and the 2021 Finals appearance.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I just feel we could never be happy until we win championships..

We had a owner who didn’t spend money and people were pissed..

We have a owner who spends money and people are pissed..

For some here, yeah this is and has long been very true. But for some of us, just putting a team together that has a chance to grow into a title contender is enough for us. I've always loved following this team closely, this is one of the few seasons in the history of the Suns where I have found it a challenge to stay glued to the TV (or radio) every game. But we gambled unwisely in an effort to buy a championship, supposedly to win a title so now, it is win it all or who cares.

But to be clear, for most of us, not spending money wasn't what caused us to dislike Sarver. He was an embarrassment. And despite knowing less about basketball than the average casual fan, he acted as a key decision maker for the organization. We all want to like Ishbia and the fact that he has a solid basketball background and that money is not much of an issue for him are huge selling points for us. But spending stupid isn't any better than not being able to spend at all, in fact, it might even be worse.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don’t think it’s his choice. A player has to agree to sign with your team, and nobody any good wants to sign to a bad team, which we will certainly be.

Suns 29-53. Signed Steve Nash.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The really good players will have all kinds of teams wanting to pay them, those guys are not options for bad teams... which we will be.

You are painting a picture where we are the team that signs dudes like Kyle Kuzma and Jerami Grant 40 million a year.

And we won't be able to swing a meaningful trade for top talent for a long long time because of our total lack of assets, this we're already seeing. We've got a star going above and beyond to poison his relationship with his team to force his way here and it doesn't matter because the heat would be better off waiving him than taking the junk we can offer.

Or we could be a team with so much cap room that we can attract two top players and be a destination. Look, I know you’re dead set on us being among the worst teams in the nba years from now, but you should be intellectually honest and accept that there are some roads left to a creative owner who will SPEND. Will it happen? Who knows? Is it possible? Absolutely.

 

[CardNots]

not spending money wasn't what caused us to dislike Sarver

I’d like to enter into evidence Joe Johnson’s departure

 

[clyde2tw]

I’d like to enter into evidence Joe Johnson’s departure

And McDyce, Michael Finley

 

[AzStevenCal]

I’d like to enter into evidence Joe Johnson’s departure

I guess my point was missed. Yes, like most owners he had to watch his bottom line. And like some of the worst owners this league has seen (Sterling, Dolan and Ranadive for example) he made some terrible financial decisions, often at the worst time. But for most of his time in Phoenix we were nowhere near the bottom in player salaries. And my point wasn't that money wasn't a problem, it's just that the man himself was an embarrassment to the organization and he micro-managed even though he was wholly unsuited to do so. That's why we despised him.

And Joe Johnson left because he didn't want to be the 3rd or 4th best player on the Suns and he wanted to go back to the South. Sarver was willing to pay him what he asked, Joe asked him not to match. Yes, we could and should have met his agent's demands before his last season with us but I worry about a player like that.

 

[AzStevenCal]

And McDyce, Michael Finley

Sorry but Finley was long gone before Robert bought the team (at least 8 years) and I don't believe Sarver had anything to do with Dice leaving either. But if Sarver had been around for Finley, that trade would have been a plus AFAIC. Granted we didn't keep Kidd very long but that was Jerry C's mistake, with his overreaction to the french fry incident. We should have let things settle and if JC still wanted him gone, taken our time and made a much better deal than for Marbury. Stephon gets a bad rap sometimes but even saying that, I don't think he was anywhere near worth Kidd's value.

 

[Covert Rain]

I guess my point was missed. Yes, like most owners he had to watch his bottom line. And like some of the worst owners this league has seen (Sterling, Dolan and Ranadive for example) he made some terrible financial decisions, often at the worst time. But for most of his time in Phoenix we were nowhere near the bottom in player salaries. And my point wasn't that money wasn't a problem, it's just that the man himself was an embarrassment to the organization and he micro-managed even though he was wholly unsuited to do so. That's why we despised him.

And Joe Johnson left because he didn't want to be the 3rd or 4th best player on the Suns and he wanted to go back to the South. Sarver was willing to pay him what he asked, Joe asked him not to match. Yes, we could and should have met his agent's demands before his last season with us but I worry about a player like that.

I don' think that's what people are saying. I don't think people are saying Sarver never spent money. However, he did at times let money drive decisions (like signing FA or using a draft pick). That was reported ad nauseum by the local media that drove many of his decisions.

There definitely is an art to spending. You don't want to spend money just to spend money. However, if you making decisions not to spend money at the detriment to success on the court fans have a right to take issue with that too.

In terms of Joe that wasn't the only reason. Joe himself said on leaving Phoenix "It's a lot of things. How things were handled [with Johnson's contract] last summer, how things have been handled this summer. There's been some things going on that aren't great." There was obviously a lot more to it then him not wanting to be a secondary fiddle. On what would happen if the Server decided to match the offer, "If they match, all this stuff is behind me from that minute on. I hope everybody [in Phoenix] puts everything behind them, too.". So he would have comeback. He just preferred not to because of all the "other things" he felt were issues.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don' think that's what people are saying. I don't think people are saying Sarver never spent money. However, he did at times let money drive decisions (like signing FA or using a draft pick). That was reported ad nauseum by the local media that drove many of his decisions.

There definitely is an art to spending. You don't want to spend money just to spend money. However, if you making decisions not to spend money at the detriment to success on the court fans have a right to take issue with that too.

In terms of Joe that wasn't the only reason. Joe himself said on leaving Phoenix "It's a lot of things. How things were handled [with Johnson's contract] last summer, how things have been handled this summer. There's been some things going on that aren't great." There was obviously a lot more to it then him not wanting to be a secondary fiddle.

I think you've missed a bouncing ball or two in this conversation. I was responding to Germ's point implying that we must be hard to please given that we didn't like our owner because he didn't spend and now we don't like our new owner because he does spend. I was trying to justify the Sarver hate, which was about much more than just money. And I daresay even if he'd spent as freely as Ish has, he'd still be an embarrassment to the organization.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think you've missed a bouncing ball or two in this conversation. I was responding to Germ's point implying that we must be hard to please given that we didn't like our owner because he didn't spend and now we don't like our new owner because he does spend. I was trying to justify the Sarver hate, which was about much more than just money. And I daresay even if he'd spent as freely as Ish has, he'd still be an embarrassment to the organization.

I didn't comment on that part but should have and actually agree the Sarver hate was more than how he financially handled the team. He did embarrass the organization on multiple occasions and things inside the organization were not all they were cracked up to be. I was just commenting on the narrow issue around spending by the owners in the organization.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I didn't comment on that part but should have and actually agree the Sarver hate was more than how he financially handled the team. He did embarrass the organization on multiple occasions and things inside the organization were not all they were cracked up to be. I was just commenting on the narrow issue around spending by the owners in the organization.

Yeah and I know he really was a cheap owner. But for the most part, that cheapness showed up elsewhere than player salaries. He was notoriously cheap when it came to non-player salaries and he went through a multi-year stretch where he forced his front office to make ridiculous decisions (selling players, selling picks etc.) to keep to his budget. But we already disliked him long before he really started cutting corners. Heck, most of us never got past his foam finger stupidity.