Whis tells Bick and MJ Cards are talking to Faneca

[Section108]

Well, we aren't the second coming of the NY Jets. We actually plan on passing the ball, certainly more then the Jets last season. It's a trade off that favours Wells, to my mind, particularly with Levi moving to left tackle.

favors - bim - what are you, Canadian?

im kidding

 

[Totally_Red]

Stop wasting time on a rapidly declining guard and sign a veteran cornerback already.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Stop wasting time on a rapidly declining guard and sign a veteran cornerback already.

That worked the first time....and the second time.

/Rod Hood
/Bryant McFadden

 

[TJ]

As Joe pointed out, Faneca gave up 6 sacks last season. The 49ers bring it on every play, the last thing we need is a poor pass blocker next to Levi. Wells gave up "0" sacks last year.

This is going to be a more balanced squad next season. We are going to tote the rock just as much as we are going to throw. Faneca is still one of the strongest run blockers in the league. He's not a world beater in pass protection but is still effective. I believe he has a couple more years of decent football left in him. The interior line in run blocking is unimpressive IMO. And because of the new offensive philosophy and partially Lutui's reluctance to sign his tender, it might behoove his to at least inquire about Faneca's services.

 

[CardsFan88]

We could always use depth. Whether that be Faneca as depth, or the former starter (wells) he would probably replace as depth, we don't know. Faneca is a run blocker, and the JETS were I believe the #1 run team last year. We saw Thomas Jones suck here (mostly), we've also seen what he could do behind a great oline.

There is no cap this year, perhaps next year as well...if there is one. So it's about what we want to spend, and conversely what he wants to make. Considering the situation with the jets, that means he should be open to taking less, how much less, is anyone's guess. He's worth more than we gave hadnot.

I think Beanie is going to run wild this year. Faneca could be a big part of that.

Here's to hoping we sign him. I think for corner help we need not jump so fast. I think we're going to see many cuts in the months ahead, so we should have time to pick a decent veteran up.

Faneca isn't dominant in pass blocking, but IS a dominant force in run blocking. If we sign him, Beanie should start licking his chops.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I am not usually one for the "fantasy football" approach when building my football team, but I think signing Faneca to an incentive based deal would be a good idea for the depth, potential force in the run game, and leadership would be worth it. Going from the Pitt blocking scheme to what the Jets run, may have affected his overall competence. Returning to what he knows couldn't hurt as long as the money is right.

Then trade Wells or Latui (if your not going to give him an extension) for a CB. I want to build for the future like everybody else, but if Deuce doesn't fit into the "core", lets get a stopgap in place and get something we need (CB) out of him.

 

[Stout]

Note that 6 of the top 12 teams in rushing missed the playoffs last season.

Only 2 of the top 12 passing teams stayed home.

Okay, but allow me to make a few points.

1-No one is saying we need to run like the Jets from last season; that's too overbalanced in emphasizing the run.

2-We don't have the QB to run the same 4-wide throw like crazy offense as before.

3-We need to be confident enough that, on a 3rd or 4th and 1, we can actually run the ball and pick it up. Wells next to Sendlein in no way inspires that for me. Having Faneca or even the mauler Hadnot next to Sendlein makes me feel a little better.

 

[Stout]

I think the REAL competition in training camp will be between Wells and Hadnot because of the concerns mentioned. The loser becomes the interior backup.

I could live with the mauler Hadnot in there instead of Wells. I'm not saying we have to sign Faneca or anything. I think it'd be a positive is all.

 

[Catfish]

Okay, but allow me to make a few points.

1-No one is saying we need to run like the Jets from last season; that's too overbalanced in emphasizing the run.

2-We don't have the QB to run the same 4-wide throw like crazy offense as before.

3-We need to be confident enough that, on a 3rd or 4th and 1, we can actually run the ball and pick it up. Wells next to Sendlein in no way inspires that for me. Having Faneca or even the mauler Hadnot next to Sendlein makes me feel a little better.

Stout-----I think that is exactly what Whiz has in mind for this year. Enough balance to keep the 'D' guessing, and enough confidence in the run to be able to pick up a first when we face 3rd and 1.

 

[kerouac9]

This is going to be a more balanced squad next season. We are going to tote the rock just as much as we are going to throw. Faneca is still one of the strongest run blockers in the league. He's not a world beater in pass protection but is still effective. I believe he has a couple more years of decent football left in him. The interior line in run blocking is unimpressive IMO. And because of the new offensive philosophy and partially Lutui's reluctance to sign his tender, it might behoove his to at least inquire about Faneca's services.

Faneca gave up 6 sacks on a team that passed the ball the fewest amount of times in the NFL. New York had nearly 40 fewer attempts than then next-lowest passing team in the NFL. In terms of sacks-per-attempt, Faneca was no where close to "still effective" in pass protection.

The Cards passed the third-most frequently in the NFL last season. I know that the plan is to run the rock more, but consider that we're breaking in a guy who started 0 games at cornerback (and only participated in some 120 snaps total) on one side, and a guy coming off a fairly major knee injury on the other.

Fun fact: The Cards D faced the second-highest number of passing attempts last season. Part of that was because we were winning, but another part was that we weren't very good at stopping the pass (23rd-ranked).

Unless cutting Bryant McFadden is going to lead to a quantum leap in defensive efficiency, then we're going to have to pass to stay in some games, too.

 

[JeffGollin]

Faneca gave up 6 sacks on a team that passed the ball the fewest amount of times in the NFL. New York had nearly 40 fewer attempts than then next-lowest passing team in the NFL. In terms of sacks-per-attempt, Faneca was no where close to "still effective" in pass protection.
And that sacks-per-attempt number was...specifically what?

And Lutui's and Wells' sacks-per-attempt numbers - what were they?

And the average for NFL left and right guards is...????

Maybe - when you fill in all the blanks - Faneca was ineffective, but the only two numbers given us to hang our hats on are (a) 6 sacks given up and (b) (assuming he didn't miss any games) 16 games.

Which, according to my math, comes out to roughly one sack given up every 2½ games. That doesn't seem to be a very high number.

(Note -An even more telling stat might be "pressures-given-up." Do you have anything specific on those numbers)?

 

[Brewster10]

I guess it just depends what you value. I think our current interior is above average in pass blocking but below average run blocking.

If you go with Faneca at LG and let's say Hadnot at RG, you are really improving the run game, but getting worse in pass pro.

I'll trust our staff here. They know what Faneca brings to the table.

 

[Mitch]

You really want to run the football? Faneca not only brings superior run blocking talent, he brings the mentality with him that can make everyone else in the line that much more intense and dedicated to pounding the pigskin. Adding Faneca would be an added message that hey we are serious about running the football and running it with consistent success.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

last year we'd would have been ecstatic to bring him in. I doubt that his skill level declined that much in 1 year. His struggles in the pass blocking scheme probably had as much do with unfamiliariyty as anything. The Jets cut him more because of the, i think , 5 mill he's owed. Look at all the money the Jets are going to have to pay out to keep everyone. There's Holmes, Cromartie, Edwards and who knows the contract status of guys like Mangold, Ferguson et al.

If he would come in and stink, we kow what we have in Wells so I don't see how it can hurt to bring him in. I don't think this has any effect on Lutui.

 

[Mulli]

As long as Grimm has been here, isn't it time he developed someone to take the place of someone on the line that the team wants to replace?

Isn't it somewhat of a failure on his part there is no one waiting in the wings so Faneca is not necessary?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

As long as Grimm has been here, isn't it time he developed someone to take the place of someone on the line that the team wants to replace?

Isn't it somewhat of a failure on his part there is no one waiting in the wings so Faneca is not necessary?

I'm not a huge Grimm fan but in his defense they have practically the same starting OL for 3 years. It's harder to develop someone when the same guys are playing every game. Keith will be a good barometer on Grimm.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

You really want to run the football? Faneca not only brings superior run blocking talent, he brings the mentality with him that can make everyone else in the line that much more intense and dedicated to pounding the pigskin. Adding Faneca would be an added message that hey we are serious about running the football and running it with consistent success.

Lest we forget. The Jets believe they can make a Super Bowl run this year, and yet, with this in mind, they are dumping Faneca for a College tackle (Ducasse) who'll convert to guard.

 

[Mulli]

I'm not a huge Grimm fan but in his defense they have practically the same starting OL for 3 years. It's harder to develop someone when the same guys are playing every game. Keith will be a good barometer on Grimm.

True.

 

[PACardsFan]

I think it's a good idea to bring in Faneca. He knows Grimm's system as well as Grimm does. In the Jets games I saw, he looked pretty damm good to me. The guys skills have not diminished as much as one would think. He's head & shoulders better than Wells, regardless of his age. Adding Faneca will add 250 more yds & 3-4 tds to Beanie's totals at the end of the season. I'll be shocked if we DON'T sign him.

 

[TJ]

Faneca gave up 6 sacks on a team that passed the ball the fewest amount of times in the NFL. New York had nearly 40 fewer attempts than then next-lowest passing team in the NFL. In terms of sacks-per-attempt, Faneca was no where close to "still effective" in pass protection.

Again, I dont think our run game was very good and that is largely because of the lack of run blocking (we were 28th last year).

You also have to factor in the difference in QBs. We had Kurt Warner, known for quick release and stellar QB rating against the blitz vs. Mark Sanchez, rookie who is getting his feet wet. You cant pin all of those sacks on Faneca. A bulldozer like him would do us well in our "Steeler" like run game.

The Cards passed the third-most frequently in the NFL last season. I know that the plan is to run the rock more, but consider that we're breaking in a guy who started 0 games at cornerback (and only participated in some 120 snaps total) on one side, and a guy coming off a fairly major knee injury on the other.

Fun fact: The Cards D faced the second-highest number of passing attempts last season. Part of that was because we were winning, but another part was that we weren't very good at stopping the pass (23rd-ranked).

Unless cutting Bryant McFadden is going to lead to a quantum leap in defensive efficiency, then we're going to have to pass to stay in some games, too.

K-9, you and I rarely agree on anything, but this I can toast to.

Our CB depth stinks.

 

[kerouac9]

Faneca gave up 6 sacks on a team that passed the ball the fewest amount of times in the NFL. New York had nearly 40 fewer attempts than then next-lowest passing team in the NFL. In terms of sacks-per-attempt, Faneca was no where close to "still effective" in pass protection.
And that sacks-per-attempt number was...specifically what?

And Lutui's and Wells' sacks-per-attempt numbers - what were they?

And the average for NFL left and right guards is...????

Maybe - when you fill in all the blanks - Faneca was ineffective, but the only two numbers given us to hang our hats on are (a) 6 sacks given up and (b) (assuming he didn't miss any games) 16 games.

Which, according to my math, comes out to roughly one sack given up every 2½ games. That doesn't seem to be a very high number.

(Note -An even more telling stat might be "pressures-given-up." Do you have anything specific on those numbers)?

Do your own homework, Jeff.
Cards 2009 blocking stats.
Jets 2009 blocking stats.

Faneca gave up 6 sacks in 525 dropbacks. That's 1 sack every 87.5 dropbacks. He allowed 16 QB pressures, which is a pressure every 32.81 dropbacks.

Wells and Lutui saw 731 and 730 dropbacks last season. Wells gave up 3 sacks and 22 QB pressures (Warner held the ball forever--that's why he takes so many hits). That's a sack every 243 dropbacks, and a pressure every 33.22 dropbacks. Lutui gave up 2 sacks and 26 pressures. That's a sack every 365 drops, and a pressure every 28 dropbacks.

Essentially, everyone's allowing pressure on the QB, but Faneca is much more likely to get your QB put on his back than the guys we have.

Just in case you think I'm cherry-picking data, here are the stats from when he was working with Grimm in Pittsbugh.

310 pass blocks, 4 sacks, 7 QB pressures. That's a sack every 77.5 dropbacks, and a pressure every 44.28 dropbacks. Three years ago when the Steelers were doing everything they could to protect Roethlisberger.

 

[Mitch]

Could it possibly be as simple as this?

If you are a 49ers', Seahawks' or Rams' DT, who would you rather line up against as you prepare to play the Cardinals, Alan Faneca or Reggie Wells?

How's that for a rhetorical question?

Wells does nothing to strike fear in a DT's heart.

Faneca does and always will.

If you don't believe me, go ask Doug who was an NFL tackle. Ask him who he would rather line up next to, Faneca or Wells?

In addtion, if you think running the ball is going to be easier this year, you are grossly mistaken.

Last year, the #1 threat...fear factor, if you will, was Warner exploting the defense.

That factor is gone.

What teams will do now, now that Warner is gone is blitz like maniacs...for one it is going to make it harder to run...and for two, if the Cardinals pass, the defense will hope to get in Leinart's face to force quick, errant throws.

Alan Fancea takes the romance out of the blitz. He will knock you on your arse. And what's left is a gaping hole to run through or an added two seconds to find the hot receiver.

What this means as well is, having a bona fide running attack with good run blockers, will mean the defense will be forced at time to bring a safety into the box and this is when the Cardinals can exploit the defense with the passing game.

To run the ball often and effectively in the NFL you HAVE to have the horses up front. Alan Faneca is a stallion...has been to date, and will always be.

I watched him every play in AFC Championship game versus that quick swarming Colts' defense...and he was knocking the snot out of guys left and right. The Jets don't want to pay him because he signed a lucrative contract with bells and whistles before Big Rex was hired.

The Jets will miss Faneca, I guarantee you. The fear factor in playing them won't be nearly as profound.

I will say this: if the Cardinals sign Faneca, they will have added two of the Jets' 5 most dynamic and talented players.

 

[Brewster10]

Does Kurt really hold the ball that long? I seem to recall his biggest positive was his ability to get rid of the ball quickley.

 

[Catfish]

last year we'd would have been ecstatic to bring him in. I doubt that his skill level declined that much in 1 year. His struggles in the pass blocking scheme probably had as much do with unfamiliariyty as anything. The Jets cut him more because of the, i think , 5 mill he's owed. Look at all the money the Jets are going to have to pay out to keep everyone. There's Holmes, Cromartie, Edwards and who knows the contract status of guys like Mangold, Ferguson et al.

If he would come in and stink, we kow what we have in Wells so I don't see how it can hurt to bring him in. I don't think this has any effect on Lutui.

Good point about his familiarity with Grimm's scheme and unfamiliarity with what he was being asked to do in New York. That may have been what caused the number of poor pass pro assignments. He is intimately familiar with how Russ schemes , which may help the pass pro here. I am glad the staff is taking a hard look at him. They will know if he can help or not, and if he can, it would be nice to see him and Lutui/Hadnot opening holes and pulling to the next level.

 

[kerouac9]

Does Kurt really hold the ball that long? I seem to recall his biggest positive was his ability to get rid of the ball quickley.

He holds the ball until the last possible second until guys get open. That was his biggest strength, but also the thing that lead to so many sack-fumbles. He took a lot more hits in his career than he maybe should've.

His release is faster than average, but he did hold the ball.