Whiz is Toast

[Evil Ash]

Skelton was pulled because he repeatedly missed reads and open receivers against SF.

Actually his being pulled was pre-determined to see what they had in Bartel.

 

[football karma]

If the team actually fired Ken Whisenhunt today, as Mitch suggests --

well good luck ever getting any headcoach to come to Arizona that actually has choices. The team would be stuck in a pattern of choosing from coordinators who believe they wouldn't get a chance anywhere else, or retreads who know they wont.

Why? Any prospective coach would think "Whis led the team to the most success it ever experienced since WWII, and after one bad season when his Hall of Fame QB retired-- they summarily fired him." The same would be done for anyone considering joining the staff.

I cannot think of a more self-destructive move this organization could take than to fire its head coach right now.

 

[Shane]

This thead is dumb!

 

[earthsci]

haha, great bump. I was so confused reading the first post before I looked at the date.

Huh? Mitch's OP was at 4:56 today.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

If he doesn't like what he has seen in Skelton enough to throw in a scrub that rode the bench in scrub land, well then...Houston... we have a problem, and probably another QB to give you. (I am done now )

Putting in Bartell verifies two things:

1. Skelton is seeing the entire field yet (and that wasn't going to improve over the next 15-20 minutes) since Bartell is throwing downfield successfully.

2. Bartell may be decent enough even to bring to camp next year - we have seen third stringers go out and completely suck...who was Peyton Mannings backup a year or two ago that looked absolutely horrendous? One quarter of watching him drive a good offense into the ground is something to have on tape so you know not to bring them back.

Now, if we were WINNING or the game was CLOSE - I would fully understand you frustration (and Mitch's), but that just wasn't the case. LOTS of stuff to vent about this season, but this event just isn't it and takes our focus off of the issues that are troublesome.

Love your avatar - fascinating and sickening

 

[Mitch]

You don't have to be at Cardinal practices to know they are soft...even though thanks to NFL Network's practice coverage it was clear from the practices I saw that the practices were soft...

It shows up in how the players play.

Look at how this team fares in the main components: blocking and tackling.

They want to play "thud" like they do in practice.

Problem is the opponents understand that this is tackle football.

Case in point...

Following an embarrassing loss and preceding the Cardinal game, Todd Haley went to his captains and said I think we need to go full pads for THREE days and get this thing turned around. The captains agreed.

THAT's the way to respond to an embarrassing loss....not tell your team that embarrasing losses are easier to take.

The Chiefs put a pounding on the hapless, ill-prepared, gutless Cardinals.

Face it.

They played like men, the Cardinals played like boys (eupehmism there, it should be termed more accurately, but I will avoid that).

This is why the Chiefs won their poor division and the Cardinals went 0-5 in the last 5 NFC West games and got outscored 142-47.

142-47.

That outcome isn't a fluke...

And it isn't all on the QB...not by any stretch.

What Dawg understands as I do is that...if you take a girl to the prom who has been making good efforts for you and three quarters of the way into the dance, you are dancing with someone else, what does that say?

In a year that was so awfully rife with QB debacles, I actually think this was THE WORST of all.

It was unconscionable.

I feel emabarrassed for John Skelton and his dad.

He deserved much better from the get-go.

What we saw is exactly why Whisenhunt alientates QBs.

To give Whiz credit for Warner is an egregious mistake.

Remember: twice, Leinart was the appointed starter. Whiz's choice.

This tells you all you need to know.

Whiz is toast by this time next year after yet another season of embarrassing blowout losses.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

Has anyone heard "Fire Whiz" anywhere besides this board?

All the pre-shows, talking heads, whatever, I've seen have had a list (for the past week) of coaches who should/could be fired.

I have yet to see Whiz mentioned. Somebody, please enlighten me if you've seen anything.

And this may be displaying my ignorance but does Bartell get any extra $$ from the NFL for being in a game? Extra benefits? Anything besides the obvious of having the stats.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You don't have to agree with Mitch's points to be able to conclude that Whiz should be fired based on his poor performance with a team which finished last in an incredibly weak division, got blown out in some games and looked lack luster in others. His comments quoted in the AZ Republic today show he is not fit to be a HC.

paso's right! bring back bugel. or bring back mac. or bring back denny. we need more guys that lose more than 1/4 of the seasons in which they're coaching!

 

[tnmike]

Yeah and playing video games makes me an expert coach just as much as watching the NFL network. Get over yourself fella.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Has anyone heard "Fire Whiz" anywhere besides this board?

Of course not. That kind of insanity is thankfully quarantined to this board.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

.

What Dawg understands as I do is that...if you take a girl to the prom who has been making good efforts for you and three quarters of the way into the dance, you are dancing with someone else, what does that say?

uh oh, mitch has finally lost it. he's gone tango...

 

[AzStevenCal]

What Dawg understands as I do is that...if you take a girl to the prom who has been making good efforts for you and three quarters of the way into the dance, you are dancing with someone else, what does that say?

In a year that was so awfully rife with QB debacles, I actually think this was THE WORST of all.

If you are right then I hereby absolve Whiz of all blame for everything that went on with the QB position. This was not the prom and trying to justify your position with this example just highlights how far off the mark you are. I respect your football knowledge but this reveals poor insight IMO. I'd love to hear John Skelton's honest and open opinion on this move. I'd wager he's not bothered by it in the least and he'd probably laugh (or cry) if he found out that Cardinal fans were calling for his coach's head for it.

Steve

 

[TJ]

"One losing season since 2006? I cant take this!"

You must be registered for see images

Honestly. Relax. Take deep breaths before you all decide to jump.

I can only speculate on the following as I am only a fan of the Cardinals and have dealt with ineptitude for all of my life. But when a coach has three consecutive .500 + seasons, two division titles and one NFC Championship then subsequently has one bad season to date, it's time to fire him? I guess I need to do more in depth homework. I do seem to recall high profile coaches following up a successful season with a complete dud.

Bill Walsh won a Superbowl in 1981 with a 13-3 record. Then in a strike shortened 1982, his record was 3-6. He recovered obviously.

Bill Cowher has an 11-5 season in 1997 only to follow that up with 7-9 and 6-10 records the following two seasons. He recovered obviously.

This is not to say Whiz is on par with these two tremendous masterminds, it is to show that coaching perfection in the NFL is non existent. Much to the chagrin of the fan base, these let down seasons happen. The reasons can range from competition becoming superior to personnel turnover (just like this season). Sometimes, the cupboards cannot be refilled overnight. Sometimes, proper adjustments, whether in the playbook or personnel, take one lousy season to come to fruition.

The bottom line: many are jumping the gun on doing meticulous, unmerited evaluations on a coach who has proven success in this league, which cannot be disputed

Is Whiz infallible? Hell no. The QB situation was probably the death of the 2010 season. Him along with the front office should have decided the fate of Matt Leinart well before the offseason. They didnt. What ensued was silly FA signings to try and fix a leaky pipe with duct tape. That quickly burst as soon as DA took the field in Week 1.

However, Whisenhunt is only human like the rest of us. We all have made boneheaded decisions which cause us to reflect back and go, "man, I royally whiffed on that one." My hunch, just from listening to Whiz during interviews and press conferences, is that he recognizes it, but there was little that could be done to solve the problem on the fly. The profound changes needed to fix the damage can only be executed during the offseason. Graves has been known to not fire coordinators or handle player contracts during the middle of the season, so in actuality, what was there to do?

But there are moves made by Whiz which are just being completely blown out of proportion. For example, Skelton's first start and the alleged competition with Bartel. First, do you honestly believe Bartel was in a competition to supplant Skelton? No. That's ridiculous. Second, if you still believe that to be true, what's wrong with that? Nothing. There isnt anything wrong with testing the mental toughness of your raw rookie QB. If Bartel is signed off the street then Skelton is told he is battling out with him and later cries about it like Leinart did with Anderson, then you know you dont have an NFL QB. Simple.

The other perplexing insinuation was that benching Skelton in last Sunday's game was a bad idea. In what context? Midway through the third quarter, the game turned into a glorified preseason campaign where it was time to evaluate other players. Bartel is only on the roster for 20 more minutes. Why not see what you have in him before he is potentially gone? The QB situation was god awful all season long, regardless of who played. Once again, if Skelton takes that personally, he is not an NFL QB and the evaluation period ends.

Skelton, while possessing all of the tools, didnt exactly light it up when he was out there. Dont get me wrong, he has all of the physical and mental traits to be a good quarterback and showed some flashes, but the common knack on him is that he is incredibly raw coming out if little Fordham and needs time to polish his game. The 2011 offseason gives him that chance.

So in short, let's see how Whisenhunt rebounds. That is the barometer of a coach. All great coaches have had down seasons, it's how they dust themselves off that show their true worth.

 

[DoTheDew]

To give Whiz credit for Warner is an egregious mistake.

It's also a mistake to give the players a free pass and put all the blame on the coaching staff. Remember, Mitch, these player's are grown men, not high school boys like you coached. Great players play great for any coach, not just good ones. What does that tell you about the performances some of the guys on this team put up this year?

 

[Shane]

You don't have to be at Cardinal practices to know they are soft...even though thanks to NFL Network's practice coverage it was clear from the practices I saw that the practices were soft...

It shows up in how the players play.

Look at how this team fares in the main components: blocking and tackling.

They want to play "thud" like they do in practice.

Problem is the opponents understand that this is tackle football.

Case in point...

Following an embarrassing loss and preceding the Cardinal game, Todd Haley went to his captains and said I think we need to go full pads for THREE days


and get this thing turned around. The captains agreed.

THAT's the way to respond to an embarrassing loss....not tell your team that embarrasing losses are easier to take.

The Chiefs put a pounding on the hapless, ill-prepared, gutless Cardinals

Face it.

They played like men, the Cardinals played like boys (eupehmism there, it should be termed more accurately, but I will avoid that).

This is why the Chiefs won their poor division and the Cardinals went 0-5 in the last 5 NFC West games and got outscored 142-47.

142-47.

That outcome isn't a fluke...

And it isn't all on the QB...not by any stretch.

What Dawg understands as I do is that...if you take a girl to the prom who has been making good efforts for you and three quarters of the way into the dance, you are dancing with someone else, what does that say?

In a year that was so awfully rife with QB debacles, I actually think this was THE WORST of all.

It was unconscionable.

I feel emabarrassed for John Skelton and hi dad.

He deserved much better from the get-go.

What we saw is exactly why Whisenhunt alientates QBs.

To give Whiz credit for Warner is an egregious mistake.

Remember: twice, Leinart was the appointed starter. Whiz's choice.

This tells you all you need to know.

Whiz is toast by this time next year after yet another season of embarrassing blowout
losses.

Whiz after all these long pointless diatribes that truly make no sense. Can you please have one explaining to me how guys like Bill (whiz mentor) and Tony Dungy had so much success with the soft raining camps they ran? How guys like whiz had success for three years running soft camps as learned from Cowher? How Dungy's successor still has a successful team using that blue print for success?

How on earth do they manage to do that?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Has anyone heard "Fire Whiz" anywhere besides this board?

All the pre-shows, talking heads, whatever, I've seen have had a list (for the past week) of coaches who should/could be fired.

I have yet to see Whiz mentioned. Somebody, please enlighten me if you've seen anything.

And this may be displaying my ignorance but does Bartell get any extra $$ from the NFL for being in a game? Extra benefits? Anything besides the obvious of having the stats.

i've read pretty much EVERY "hot-seat/fired/not fired" list and he's not been mentioned ONCE.

 

[tnmike]

i've read pretty much EVERY "hot-seat/fired/not fired" list and he's not been mentioned ONCE.

That's because it exists only in one man's imagination

 

[ajcardfan]

i've read pretty much EVERY "hot-seat/fired/not fired" list and he's not been mentioned ONCE.

That's because the idea of firing him right now is completely ridiculous. As someone else said earlier, you couldn't hire a coach worth a damn to replace him if you pulled that crap right now. We're talking about the LA Clippers of the NFL here.

 

[Duckjake]

paso's right! bring back bugel. or bring back mac. or bring back denny. we need more guys that lose more than 1/4 of the seasons in which they're coaching!

But whenever one of our top players leave via free agency or trade the guy coming to replace him is always going to be better.

We're a dysfunctional bunch here on ASFN. A football field full of 5-11 seasons will do that to you.

 

[ReddBird]

Honestly. Relax. Take deep breaths before you all decide to jump.

First, do you honestly believe Bartel was in a competition to supplant Skelton? No. That's ridiculous. Second, if you still believe that to be true, what's wrong with that? Nothing. There isnt anything wrong with testing the mental toughness of your raw rookie QB. If Bartel is signed off the street then Skelton is told he is battling out with him and later cries about it like Leinart did with Anderson, then you know you dont have an NFL QB. Simple.

The other perplexing insinuation was that benching Skelton in last Sunday's game was a bad idea. In what context? Midway through the third quarter, the game turned into a glorified preseason campaign where it was time to evaluate other players. Bartel is only on the roster for 20 more minutes. Why not see what you have in him before he is potentially gone? The QB situation was god awful all season long, regardless of who played. Once again, if Skelton takes that personally, he is not an NFL QB and the evaluation period ends.

Skelton, while possessing all of the tools, didnt exactly light it up when he was out there. Dont get me wrong, he has all of the physical and mental traits to be a good quarterback and showed some flashes, but the common knack on him is that he is incredibly raw coming out if little Fordham and needs time to polish his game. The 2011 offseason gives him that chance.

So in short, let's see how Whisenhunt rebounds. That is the barometer of a coach. All great coaches have had down seasons, it's how they dust themselves off that show their true worth.

Exactly what he said. And he said it very well.

Mitch, I love your posts but, man, you're not seeing the whole field here.

 

[Cheesebeef]

But whenever one of our top players leave via free agency or trade the guy coming to replace him is always going to be better.

only the die-hard sycophants believe this crap tho.

 

[desertdawg]

Mark this down, I bet what ever Luck doesn't do better than Skelton his first few games stat wise, and I also doubt he will be benched for a back up minor league QB after a tip for a pick.
Besides Luck and Newton, we already have everything in Skelton that is available in the draft.
He can throw, get around,he is smart, has the size, and doesn't turn it over like most rookies do. I am probably looking funny because this is what finally sent me over the ledge, but after a full season with zero adjustments (besides benchung QBs) and other teams knowing our plays as soon as we line up, (offense and defense) I don't see Whiz getting it together by next year.

Again, I am down with whizzing another year (homie earned that big time), but I am not optimistic. I hope we go undefeated.

 

[Pariah]

Mark this down, I bet what ever Luck doesn't do better than Skelton his first few games stat wise,

I'd take that bet. ...and I like Skelton.

 

[dogpoo32]

Whiz is the coach of a team with no heart, little brains and zero accountability to this point. I don't know how people find him so easy to defend. The offense that was left in the form of Warner. Whis wasn't smart enough to change the game plan.

The defense has been absolutely embarrassing the past few seasons, and Davis will hopefully leave, but the fact that he's lasted this long is an indication of the ineptitude of the management of this team.

I am so off the Whis Wagon at this point. Watching Whis this year has made me so angry week after week. Repeated awful decisions should not be excused.

But whatever, none of it matters. Onto watching the Suns... crap.

 

[desertdawg]

I'd take that bet. ...and I like Skelton.

Cool you probably will have the advantage with Luck getting more snaps and coming from a NFL style offense. But all and all, I think Luck will have some growing pains and then get it together.
So whats the bet?