Whiz is Toast

[bg7brd]

I don't buy this "he deserves another chance" talk. I would hope the Cardinals are not running a rehabilitation clinic. The NFL is a tough business and when you under perform as bad as he did this year the team needs to move on. The idea that we could not get a good coach if he is fired is nonsense.

You haven't been a fan for very long have you?

 

[NJCardFan]

First off, let me address this:

This is not to say Whiz is on par with these two tremendous masterminds, it is to show that coaching perfection in the NFL is non existent. Much to the chagrin of the fan base, these let down seasons happen. The reasons can range from competition becoming superior to personnel turnover (just like this season). Sometimes, the cupboards cannot be refilled overnight. Sometimes, proper adjustments, whether in the playbook or personnel, take one lousy season to come to fruition.

Sometimes you have to take a step back and understand what you're dealing with. We aren't fans of the Giants or Patriots or Ravens or Colts which are teams in which a losing season would be a blip on the radar. A hiccup. Something that doesn't usually happen. We are Cardinal fans. We're fans of a team that a winning season is a blip on the radar. The blind squirrel finding an acorn. We are the only franchise in this league who has no business ripping on any other team's misfortunes. The Raiders are going through tough times? Well, we can talk about them once we have 3 SB championships on our collective mantels. The Lions? Before Matt Millen set this team back 10 years, from 1991 to 1999 they had 6 playoff appearances and 5 winning seasons. We've had 6 winning seasons in the last 30 years and 4 playoff appearances. The Rams went 1-15 last season and we all laughed? Well, considering that they had more success in the 16 seasons they've been in St. Louis than we had in our entire history there, they should be laughing at us. Face it, we are the laughing stock of the NFL universe. So when we finally string 3 non-losing seasons in a row then a season like this happens, there's that fear that we might not see what we had the previous 3 years again.

I equate it to my being a Phillies fan. When I was growing up, the Phils went from the dregs of the baseball world to perennial contenders finally bringing home a title in 1980. Then after a couple of decent seasons including another NL Championship, it was back in the toilet. Then there was 1993. An improbable season with a bunch of has beens and never was players then...back in the toilet...for 14 seasons. Rooting for a loser takes patience and a real thick skin so when your losing team is finally a winner, you don't want to lose that. The Cards finally made the playoffs in 1998 and right after we lost to Minnesota, the rug was pulled out from under us. And it took another 10 years to get back. I'm tired of waiting for a winner and no other fans of no other team has had to endure what we've endured. The only franchise that has ever had it worse than us are Clippers fans. So, with all of that, you can understand the panic.

Now, should Whiz be fired? No. But management has to force him into surrounding him with good people. Grimm may be his friend and may be a hall of fame lineman but as a coach he sucks on ice. Davis, the man had the worst defense in the league when he was a DC before. What the hell could possibly lead Whiz to believe that he'd be a good fit here? I would have rather he promote from within. Hell, my grand nephew could have done the same that Davis has done. If he can admit that he can't do it alone then surrounds himself with competent people, this team can move mountains but the first thing he has to do is cut the dead weight and Grimm and Davis is that dead weight. But if we go into next season with the same coaches, we will fail. Andrew Luck or not.

 

[Duckjake]

Not to mention that the next time that he was a head coach he took a team that was 8-8 the year before and led them to a 5-11 record.

But was he outscored by 145 points and finish at the bottom of the NFL in almost every statistical category and get beat by crappy teams 38-7?

There are a lot of ways to go 5-11 or 6-10. One season that Cowher was 6-10 the Steelers were outscored by THREE points! The Cards were outscored by 145 points this past season.

If we had been losing games 17-6 or 20-15 all season long and won a couple of games 28-10 and played tough, physical football every game that to me would be acceptable given the situation at QB. But to get hammered 38-7 or 41-7 and just lay down as often as they did and avoid matching the worst season in Arizona Cardinal history because of two missed chip shot kicks is significantly different.

Considering that the Cards were division champions 2 years ago and advanced to the 2nd round of the playoffs just a season ago the results this season are inexcusable. Regardless of who was playing QB.

 

[desertdawg]

Should Whiz be fired? No. But management has to force him into surrounding him with good people. Grimm may be his friend and may be a hall of fame lineman but as a coach he sucks on ice. Davis, the man had the worst defense in the league when he was a C before. What the hell could possibly lead Whiz to believe that he'd be a good fit here? I would have rather he promote from within. Hell, my grand nephew could have done the same that Davis has done. If he can admit that he can't do it alone then surrounds himself with competent people, this team can move mountains but the first thing he has to do is cut the dead weight and Grimm and Davis is that dead weight. But if we go into next season with the same coaches, we will fail. Andrew Luck or not.

Whiz doesn't have to admit to jack s***. He needs to fire Davis.Let Grimm walk for another job if they are such good buddies, if nobody wants Grimm, then let him go, we should know soon enough. But Davis should have been gone by now.Whiz's job and much more importantly, the Cards are riding on these decisions.

 

[earthsci]

But was he outscored by 145 points and finish at the bottom of the NFL in almost every statistical category and get beat by crappy teams 38-7?

There are a lot of ways to go 5-11 or 6-10. One season that Cowher was 6-10 the Steelers were outscored by THREE points! The Cards were outscored by 145 points this past season.

If we had been losing games 17-6 or 20-15 all season long and won a couple of games 28-10 and played tough, physical football every game that to me would be acceptable given the situation at QB. But to get hammered 38-7 or 41-7 and just lay down as often as they did and avoid matching the worst season in Arizona Cardinal history because of two missed chip shot kicks is significantly different.

Considering that the Cards were division champions 2 years ago and advanced to the 2nd round of the playoffs just a season ago the results this season are inexcusable. Regardless of who was playing QB.

So you want Whiz fired? I understand why people aren't happy about his performance this year. I'm not happy but there are people begging for him to be fired. I think that would be a foolish move. Do you agree or not?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

They want to play "thud" like they do in practice.

Agreed. I noticed this during that last game.

Is it against the law to pump your legs once you make contact ?

Holy Mackerel!

9 out of 10 tackles were a run, hit, stop and twist.

What happened to hit, wrap, and pump your legs ?

As for blocking? I don't even know where to begin talking about how horrendous the Cardinals run blocking is. Almost awe-inspiring how awful our blocking is.

 

[NJCardFan]

Agreed. I noticed this during that last game.

Is it against the law to pump your legs once you make contact ?

Holy Mackerel!

9 out of 10 tackles were a run, hit, stop and twist.

What happened to hit, wrap, and pump your legs ?

As for blocking? I don't even know where to begin talking about how horrendous the Cardinals run blocking is. Almost awe-inspiring how awful our blocking is.

The question I keep asking is if it's against the rules to plant a shoulder and wrap a guy up. We have too many players who all they want to do is make the big hit or the big play instead of just making the play. Take the Dallas game. Dallas doesn't score the go ahead TD if Toler tries to knock the ball down instead of trying to pick it off, the missed XP would have been moot. It's like this team doesn't know the basic fundamentals of tackle football.

 

[Paso Fino]

You haven't been a fan for very long have you?

Well I guess not. But I did enjoy watching the Dream Backfield play for the Cardinals at Comiskey Park. But that, of course, was a few years ago.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

So you want Whiz fired? I understand why people aren't happy about his performance this year. I'm not happy but there are people begging for him to be fired. I think that would be a foolish move. Do you agree or not?

I don't think it is foolish to want Whiz fired at this point. I don't think it would be the right move, but that season was embarrassing.

What I am saying is that I think that opinion of the situation (Whiz getting canned) is more than justified at this point and time.

What sucks the most, is that the "fluke" label is getting tattooed on our 2008/2009 success as we speak.

How do you argue that Warner was the reason for success ? You can, but it is a hard debate.

Heck, even after Warner retired he is the only Cardinal finding success, currently on NFL Total Access. Boldin would come in second with a solid season, Dansby next with a solid season (nothing all-pro), then the rest have shown very little.

None of this is good, almost all of it is bad. The responsibility at this point falls on Whiz. His free pass from past glory is gone completely after a season like this where 0-16 was more of a possibility than anyone would like to think about.

My only faith in Whiz is how he has handled himself. I am not one to judge the guy on every twitch of the face, or word out of his mouth. Yet, I do keep close attention to him.

His press conference on Monday ? Different. Very, very different from anything I have heard from him in the past.

Things are going to change, hell or high water IMO.

 

[AZ Native]

Whiz is going to be back this year. If we have the same issues/problems next year, well my guess is that will be that. Someone mentioned going off the deep end, yeah that's how I see it too. It is easy to over react, more difficult to be patient. Patience is a virtue. Everyone wants instant gratification, well it usually does not work out that way.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

The question I keep asking is if it's against the rules to plant a shoulder and wrap a guy up. We have too many players who all they want to do is make the big hit or the big play instead of just making the play. Take the Dallas game. Dallas doesn't score the go ahead TD if Toler tries to knock the ball down instead of trying to pick it off, the missed XP would have been moot. It's like this team doesn't know the basic fundamentals of tackle football.

Welcome to the age of ESPN football.

Big hits, makes highlights, which makes names, which makes money.

I have no idea what the effect these players go for. It is certainly no illegal to hit and wrap.

Actually there is one guy that does a good job of it, and it is Dan Williams. He tackles correctly, and from what I have seen, there is no loss of impact.

 

[Heucrazy]

I think wanting Whiz fired is the epitome of ridiculous. Three good years and one bad one does not a horrible coach make.

I swear the reactions to this season remind me of high school. You guys are acting like 16 year old girls who just got dumped and are now in hysterics because "you'll just never find anyone now!!!"

Sheesh

 

[azsouthendzone]

Great post Mitch. Keep up the great work! Truth.

 

[Duckjake]

I don't think it is foolish to want Whiz fired at this point. I don't think it would be the right move, but that season was embarrassing.

What sucks the most, is that the "fluke" label is getting tattooed on our 2008/2009 success as we speak.

How do you argue that Warner was the reason for success ? You can, but it is a hard debate.

Heck, even after Warner retired he is the only Cardinal finding success, currently on NFL Total Access. Boldin would come in second with a solid season, Dansby next with a solid season (nothing all-pro), then the rest have shown very little.

None of his is good, almost all of it is bad. The responsibility at this point falls on Whiz. His free pass from past glory is gone completely after a season like this where 0-16 was more of a possibility than anyone would like to think about.

My only faith in Whiz is how he has handled himself. I am not one to judge the guy on every twitch of the face, or word out of his mouth. Yet, I do keep close attention to him.

His press conference on Monday ? Different. Very, very different from anything I have heard from him in the past.

Things are going to change, hell or high water IMO.

Wow. That would be an ASFN Hall of Fame post were it not for the fact that Rugby wouldn't want it.

I have never ever said that Whiz should be fired I have simply been defending the people who are getting vilified for criticizing him. This was a horrific season given where we were last year and CKW deserves every bit of criticism he is getting.

However, I have long been of the opinion that the Bidwills #1 fault is not being cheap but in not being able to identify quality coaching talent and giving up on the few good coaches they have had too soon.

More than the penny pinching of the front office the #2 problem our team has had the last 50 years has been the coaching carousel.

 

[azsouthendzone]

How soon we forget the cacophony of don't let the door hit you in the rear on your way out and the guys who are leaving are easily replaced from last Spring.

Shane even had in his avatar that he was glad Dansby was gone. If I had a nickel for every Boldin is expendable because the Cards won more games than they lost while he was out injured I'd be retired. Rolle was a bum. RWells was garbage. ad nauseum. All those guys helped take us to the NFC Championship.

But the guys who bash on the coach after this horrible season are haters and stupid because the coach took us to the NFC Championship two years ago?

Sorry but that doesn't wash.

Excellent post.

 

[TJ]

You don't have to agree with Mitch's points to be able to conclude that Whiz should be fired based on his poor performance with a team which finished last in an incredibly weak division, got blown out in some games and looked lack luster in others. His comments quoted in the AZ Republic today show he is not fit to be a HC.

I don't buy this "he deserves another chance" talk. I would hope the Cardinals are not running a rehabilitation clinic. The NFL is a tough business and when you under perform as bad as he did this year the team needs to move on. The idea that we could not get a good coach if he is fired is nonsense.

These are two of the most ridiculous, nonsensical posts I have ever seen on this board.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Wow. That would be an ASFN Hall of Fame post were it not for the fact that Rugby wouldn't want it.

I have never ever said that Whiz should be fired I have simply been defending the people who are getting vilified for criticizing him.

duck, this is oversimplification at it's worst. People aren't villifying those who are criticizing Wiz. People are villifying those who think he should already be fired, had very little or NOTHING to do with ANY of the success we've had and are pining for Dennis Green.

Criticizing is fine. I think Wiz took a huge dump this season from a TON of angles. But saying he should be fired and had nothing to do with the best two seasons of football Arizona has ever seen in 22 years is their height of stupidity and would be villified by ANYONE who watches football and doesn't post on this board.

 

[AzStevenCal]

duck, this is oversimplification at it's worst. People aren't villifying those who are criticizing Wiz. People are villifying those who think he should already be fired, had very little or NOTHING to do with ANY of the success we've had and are pining for Dennis Green.

Criticizing is fine. I think Wiz took a huge dump this season from a TON of angles. But saying he should be fired and had nothing to do with the best two seasons of football Arizona has ever seen in 22 years is their height of stupidity and would be villified by ANYONE who watches football and doesn't post on this board.

+1. As for the bolded part, I'm not even sure they're wrong when they blame Whiz for every bad thing and give no credit to him for any of the positives. I just think they're wrong for being so sure they're right about it.

Steve

 

[ASUCHRIS]

+1. As for the bolded part, I'm not even sure they're wrong when they blame Whiz for every bad thing and give no credit to him for any of the positives. I just think they're wrong for being so sure they're right about it.

Steve

The beauty of cognitive dissonance...

 

[Shane]

duck, this is oversimplification at it's worst. People aren't villifying those who are criticizing Wiz. People are villifying those who think he should already be fired, had very little or NOTHING to do with ANY of the success we've had and are pining for Dennis Green.

Criticizing is fine. I think Wiz took a huge dump this season from a TON of angles. But saying he should be fired and had nothing to do with the best two seasons of football Arizona has ever seen in 22 years is their height of stupidity and would be villified by ANYONE who watches football and doesn't post on this board.

Duck,

Thats much more HOF worthY!

 

[NJCardFan]

I think wanting Whiz fired is the epitome of ridiculous. Three good years and one bad one does not a horrible coach make.

I swear the reactions to this season remind me of high school. You guys are acting like 16 year old girls who just got dumped and are now in hysterics because "you'll just never find anyone now!!!"

Sheesh

But here lies the rub. Under normal circumstances, while teams often take steps back after recent success, usually it's due to injury or soe other happenstance. Whiz's problems are self inflicted. As has been said often, only 6 players left over from the Green era are still here: Fitz, Lutui, Hayes, Dockett, AW, Watson. And a good lot of the players no longer here were very instrumental to our successes. Danbey's gone. Q's gone. Hell, everybody's gone. Now, this isn't all that unusual. However, when a coach comes in and remakes a team in his image and lets players go from the previous regime, a good coach usually brings in good players to take their place. That hasn't happened. Who has Whiz brought in that you can say "damn, that guy is a difference maker"? Also, the 4th season has passed since his first draft class. How are they doing? Let's look:

Levi Brown,T-Bust
Alan Branch, DT-meh at best.
Buster Davis, LB-Didn't make it out of training camp.
Steve Breaston, WR-Been good but a tad fragile.
Ben Patrick, TE-Terrible

It's been 3 years since draft #2. Let's see how those picks are working out:

DRC, CB-He's shown flashes but more often than not, the nickname Toast has been more apropos.
Calias Campbell, DE-He just had his 3rd season and he hasn't shown improvement.
Early Doucet, WR-Maybe I can speak honestly of him if he weren't made of paper mache.
Kenny Iwebema, DE-Been a nothing player since day one. Not horrible, just there.
Tim Hightower, RB-One minute he's O.J. Anderson and the next, he's Thomas Jones circa 2000-2003. He busts out an 80 yard run on one play, the next, 5 yards and a fumble. Bust? No. Boom? No. Again, another player the jury is still out on.
Chris Harrington, DE-Gone.
Brandon Keith, T-Horrible. Actually, he needs to improve to get to horrible.

So, there you have it, 2 of his drafts have had at least 3 seasons and not one drat pick stands out as a difference maker. Lets compare with, say, the Falcons. Just looking at their 2008 draft:

Matt Ryan, QB-Immediate impact and is one of the best QB in the league in his young career. Taking his team to the playoffs 2 of his 3 seasons, including his rookie season and this season leading his team to a 13-3 record and the top seed in the conference.
Sam Baker, T-Not a starter and hasn't panned out yet.
Curtis Lofton, LB-Had a great year last year and is having another great year this season making or assisting in 125 tackes. Impact player.
Chevis Jackson, DB-gone.
Harry Douglas, WR-Their version of Breaston and about on par with Breaston.
Thomas Decloud, B-Decent player but a role player.
Kroy Biermann, LB-role player. Actually scored a TD this season.
The rest of their draftpicks are no longer on the team.

Just to let you know, the Atlanta Falcons 7th round pick in 2007(Jason Snelling) is having a greater impact on the Falcons than any of Whiz's draft picks combined.

But there you have it. This is just one draft but they have 2 impact players. In 4 drafts, Whiz has not one impact player. That's the major problem I have with Whiz.

 

[NJCardFan]

I also need to add that Dennis Green had more impact players in 2004(Fitz, Dansby, Dockett) then in Whiz's 4 drafts. Not saying Green is a better coach...let's get back to that...but he was a much much better judge of talent.

And if you want to compare coaching careers, Green didn't begin to have losing problems until he got here. In 10 years as Viking head coach, Green had 1 losing season in 10 and averaged 10 wins a season so if you Whiz pablum eaters want to compare bodies of work instead of just one team, Whiz couldn't carry Green's coffee in overall coaching performance. Just saying. I mean the man won 10 games with Jeff George as his QB for God's sakes. Let's give Whiz a couple more years before comparing.

 

[CtCardinals78]

But here lies the rub. Under normal circumstances, while teams often take steps back after recent success, usually it's due to injury or soe other happenstance. Whiz's problems are self inflicted. As has been said often, only 6 players left over from the Green era are still here: Fitz, Lutui, Hayes, Dockett, AW, Watson. And a good lot of the players no longer here were very instrumental to our successes. Danbey's gone. Q's gone. Hell, everybody's gone. Now, this isn't all that unusual. However, when a coach comes in and remakes a team in his image and lets players go from the previous regime, a good coach usually brings in good players to take their place. That hasn't happened. Who has Whiz brought in that you can say "damn, that guy is a difference maker"? Also, the 4th season has passed since his first draft class. How are they doing? Let's look:

Levi Brown,T-Bust
Alan Branch, DT-meh at best.
Buster Davis, LB-Didn't make it out of training camp.
Steve Breaston, WR-Been good but a tad fragile.
Ben Patrick, TE-Terrible

It's been 3 years since draft #2. Let's see how those picks are working out:

DRC, CB-He's shown flashes but more often than not, the nickname Toast has been more apropos.
Calias Campbell, DE-He just had his 3rd season and he hasn't shown improvement.
Early Doucet, WR-Maybe I can speak honestly of him if he weren't made of paper mache.
Kenny Iwebema, DE-Been a nothing player since day one. Not horrible, just there.
Tim Hightower, RB-One minute he's O.J. Anderson and the next, he's Thomas Jones circa 2000-2003. He busts out an 80 yard run on one play, the next, 5 yards and a fumble. Bust? No. Boom? No. Again, another player the jury is still out on.
Chris Harrington, DE-Gone.
Brandon Keith, T-Horrible. Actually, he needs to improve to get to horrible.

So, there you have it, 2 of his drafts have had at least 3 seasons and not one drat pick stands out as a difference maker. Lets compare with, say, the Falcons. Just looking at their 2008 draft:

Matt Ryan, QB-Immediate impact and is one of the best QB in the league in his young career. Taking his team to the playoffs 2 of his 3 seasons, including his rookie season and this season leading his team to a 13-3 record and the top seed in the conference.
Sam Baker, T-Not a starter and hasn't panned out yet.
Curtis Lofton, LB-Had a great year last year and is having another great year this season making or assisting in 125 tackes. Impact player.
Chevis Jackson, DB-gone.
Harry Douglas, WR-Their version of Breaston and about on par with Breaston.
Thomas Decloud, B-Decent player but a role player.
Kroy Biermann, LB-role player. Actually scored a TD this season.
The rest of their draftpicks are no longer on the team.

Just to let you know, the Atlanta Falcons 7th round pick in 2007(Jason Snelling) is having a greater impact on the Falcons than any of Whiz's draft picks combined.

But there you have it. This is just one draft but they have 2 impact players. In 4 drafts, Whiz has not one impact player. That's the major problem I have with Whiz.

Great post. I am scared of another Wiz draft. They have been lackluster at best and the philosophy that 1st rounders don't start just because they're first rounders will not fly this year. With a 5th overall pick that selection better be a starter and am impact player. Wiz started an UDFA at QB this year before starting his 1st round pick. That is just stupid. I have no doubt the Cards will let some good players go this offseason and fail to replace them in FA. Instead they'll probably draft some 5' 6" WR in the 4th round from a DII school that noone has ever heard of and start him because he has moxie and intangibles.

I can't believe this year with people getting excited about the play of late round projects and UDFA's who were either starting or played significant roles during games while this year and last years 1st round picks rode pine. You guys realize that's the crap of the good ol days, right? It's nice to have those project players contribute every now and then but to ask them to play key roles and sit the more "talented" players is upsetting. Either this coaching/scouting staff can't evaluate and pick talent properly or this coaching staff can't coach to develop talent. All I know is DG could sure pick talent...

 

[Krangodnzr]

If I had a nickel for every Boldin is expendable because the Cards won more games than they lost while he was out injured I'd be retired.

He was expendable....with good QB play. Teams don't need two top receivers, and on this team, Fitzgerald was clearly the better player.

Rolle was a bum.

We replaced him, with a player that was probably better.

RWells was garbage.

He was, and is garbage. I watched the guy get annihilated consistently in 2009. As bad as Faneca was, he probably was a much better run blocker, but only a slighty worse pass blocker.


Dansby and Warner, and now in retrospect, the retirement of Bert Berry and the non-interest in Chike Okeafor were bigger losses to this football team. Bad QB play, lack of a edge pass rush, and ILB play were the primary killers of this football team.

Sure the offensive line was bad last year, but as I've contended with you multiple times, Kurt Warner made the offensive line look better. Once he regained his confidence, stopped fumbling all the time, Kurt Warner started playing lights out. I remember last season especially thinking that Kurt got hit more than any playoff QB, and it's a testament to his toughness that he stayed mostly healthy in 2009.

 

[NJCardFan]

And that's the thing. 4 drafts, someone somewhere had to have been an impact player or difference maker even by accident. There are none that Whiz has drafted who are even close. If Whiz doesn't pull out a plum this draft, there's something wrong.