Whiz is Toast

[Cardinals.Ken]

Like who? What better, more expensive players were available and where is there information that proves CKW wanted them over the guys he did bring in?

Yes I am bitter. Because for 30 years I thought 5-11 was a normal season. Then the Cards won and I realized that it wasn't and so I am no longer willing to accept crap like 2010 for the Cardinals.

And again here is a post claiming I want CKW fired when I've never written that at all.

So, you're saying that you want The Whis fired?

 

[Mulli]

Like who? What better, more expensive players were available and where is there information that proves CKW wanted them over the guys he did bring in?

Yes I am bitter. Because for 30 years I thought 5-11 was a normal season. Then the Cards won and I realized that it wasn't and so I am no longer willing to accept crap like 2010 for the Cardinals.

And again here is a post claiming I want CKW fired when I've never written that at all.

I have yet to see you repudiate and reject the call for Whiz to be fired and the guarantee that he is fired by this time next year.

I would like see you do that, sir.

 

[Shane]

Like who? What better, more expensive players were available and where is there information that proves CKW wanted them over the guys he did bring in?

Karlos Dansby? Anquan Boldin? Come to mind? The team didnt offer enough to keep the first and didn't want to pay the 2nd? In a year they cut their salary by around 30-40 million?

They payed less for Paris Lenon than for a more proven talent in Larry Foote whom we were obviously interested in IIRC. Although I believe after watching Lenon the correct choice was made.

All indication are that CKW wanted Bulger and management said no go with what you got. As bad as Bulder has been the last few shell shocked years he would have been better. NO DOUBT about it.

 

[TJ]

"Me and 99% of the rest of the Cards fans feel" ...........if that makes you feel better......

You seriously overestimate the amount of folks here or anywhere that feel the same way you do. Just because you and a few vocal posters on here are quick to bash, name call, and attack anyone who isn't a Whiz fan doesn't mean that 99% of anyone feels the same way. As a matter of fact, it appears that a majority has turned since the beginning of the season when only a few on here, myself, Nashman, and others were willing to take your crew's bullets while suggesting that there was trouble on the horizon with Whisenhunt.

Whiz is officially a .500 coach. He was outscored -145 this year in the worst division in the history of the NFL. He will be fired next year without significant improvement. And that improvement will not come. This is not a "down year" that you may see from a team like the Pats caused by injuries. This was a debacle in the making since he took over. Some can see it, some like you cannot or refuse to. The cupboard is bare. 2011 is almost identical to Denny's first year. You think Whiz will rebound. I think he is incapable based on his inability to evaluate talent, manage player personnel, and the inability to motivate or prepare his team on game day, and based on reports that he is going after Bulger as his starter and that he will call plays again, I have seen nothing to show me otherwise. If you can tell me a few reasons why you feel he will be able to draft well, develop talent, and not get blown out every other game in 2011 I am willing to listen. I can change my mind. Can you?

Im not going to address the basis of this response as I have disputed it probably 30 times.

All I am going to tell you is that all of your posts are emotionally charged and knee jerk reactions to the situation. People here are acting like schizophrenics with regards to the team and the surrounding problems. It makes it difficult for me to take the other side of the argument seriously, even though the more rational posters who are questioning the Whisenhunt system have brought up some interesting points. But the fact remains that Whisenhunt has had more success than any coach in AZ. All you have to do is go back to the previous three seasons and see that. You can try and discount it all you want by bringing up silly scenarios, attempted mind reading and bringing up myopic concepts, but the results, which are all that matter (even if you want to include this one season) are still apparent and inarguable. Even Mike Tirico and John Gruden after the MNF game went out of their way to address local radio callers and their ridiculous assertions that Whiz is a lousy coach, calling it "ridiculous." Not one national pundit has even mentioned him on a hot seat, let alone a luke warm one. This Diabolic Whiz manifesto is garbage.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

How is it failure when you inherit a Triple A roster( Dave Macs players) and you turn it into SB contending roster? DG did this. How is it your success alone when you won with players that you had no hand in bringing here. DG was both good and bad but not a failure here. Any Cards fan knows this.

rats is right. dg was 10% good and 90% bad. it just took another coach to really show the 10%.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This team was in complete turmoil when Green was hired and they only gave him 3 years to straighten it out. It's no coincidence that the players he brought in were extremely helpful in getting this team to respectability but it took Whiz 1 season to drag is all down to same ol Cards. This cannot be denied. You can call me names all you want but you can't deny the facts I've laid out here.

um, i'm not 100% certain based on your post, but i'm pretty sure whiz has been the HC for 4 seasons. in your opinion he's been "dragg[ing] it down to same ol Cards" for 4 seasons.

it was nice during the DG years to see the team improve. from 6-10 to 5-11 (3rd in nfcw) to 5-11 (last in nfcw). oh wait, that's not improvement.

 

[TJ]

This is the best contribution Denny ever made to this team:



Never gets old

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

We can debate the merits of individual players forever but my point in this thread was that I think it is hypocritical of those who point out those players deficiencies to then turn around and bash posters for pointing out CKW's deficiencies.



Just to point out how strange NFL football is: The Texans had good QB play, a top edge rusher and decent LB play (injuries hurt though) and finished 6-10.

duck, in defense of many of us, we are perfectly fine with holding both coaches and players accountable. i never understand the fights "it's the players' fault!" "no it's the coaches' fault!" - christ, it's almost universally a combination of the two. this year our coaching sucked and our players sucked. some players should be cut. some coaches should be fired. imo whiz has earned the right apparently given so many other cards coaches . . . to suck more than one season. hell, based on history, shouldn't whiz be allowed to suck 3 years before being fired?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Do you really think that CKW brought in Faneca and Porter and Rhodes and Lenon because he didn't have the budget to get better players?

Interesting if true.

in the case of lenon, yeah i think that was likely true.

i also just don't think there was a lot out there in the way of edge rushers.

 

[azsouthendzone]

Im not going to address the basis of this response as I have disputed it probably 30 times.

All I am going to tell you is that all of your posts are emotionally charged and knee jerk reactions to the situation. People here are acting like schizophrenics with regards to the team and the surrounding problems. It makes it difficult for me to take the other side of the argument seriously, even though the more rational posters who are questioning the Whisenhunt system have brought up some interesting points. But the fact remains that Whisenhunt has had more success than any coach in AZ. All you have to do is go back to the previous three seasons and see that. You can try and discount it all you want by bringing up silly scenarios, attempted mind reading and bringing up myopic concepts, but the results, which are all that matter (even if you want to include this one season) are still apparent and inarguable. Even Mike Tirico and John Gruden after the MNF game went out of their way to address local radio callers and their ridiculous assertions that Whiz is a lousy coach, calling it "ridiculous." Not one national pundit has even mentioned him on a hot seat, let alone a luke warm one. This Diabolic Whiz manifesto is garbage.

Knee jerk reaction? I guess if a knee jerk reaction is capable of being well documented and can last for multiple season with reasons clearly spelled out. I have been 100% consistent since day one. Maybe you don't like hearing it but that is your problem not mine. Emotionally charged? Maybe, it is football not checkers. I would consider personal attacks that your crew like to engage in much more emotional. Either way, learn to debate and talk about whether or not you think statements are correct or not, not whether or not you think the person typing it is an ass hat or not. Show some common decency. The attacks on the posters are becoming pretty ridiculous. Everyone, EVERYONE on here is a cards fan and wants the same thing. The opinions about how we get there will never be agreed upon by everyone and opinions on players and coaches will never be 100% positive.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Knee jerk reaction? I guess if a knee jerk reaction is capable of being well documented and can last for multiple season with reasons clearly spelled out. I have been 100% consistent since day one. Maybe you don't like hearing it but that is your problem not mine. Emotionally charged? Maybe, it is football not checkers. I would consider personal attacks that your crew like to engage in much more emotional. Either way, learn to debate and talk about whether or not you think statements are correct or not, not whether or not you think the person typing it is an ass hat or not. Show some common decency. The attacks on the posters are becoming pretty ridiculous. Everyone, EVERYONE on here is a cards fan and wants the same thing. The opinions about how we get there will never be agreed upon by everyone and opinions on players and coaches will never be 100% positive.

first, do you not even see that you're using inflammatory language when you refer to people as "your crew" . . . who does that even include? a bunch of people talk about "gangs" on here. just because a group of people agree on a specific topic doesn't make 'em a gang. heck, i found myself agreeing wholeheartedly with a nidan post the other day. am i now in his "gang" or "crew?" (i think nidan would pass out if he thought that was anyone's insinuation).

let's face it, both sides of this debate are guilty of throwing around the word "idiot" or "ignorant" or "pablum eaters." everyone needs to quit being so sensitive. these words are used for emphasis. they may not be nice, but i am saddened if anyone is directly calling anyone else an idiot, even if you think their opinion is idiotic.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

first, do you not even see that you're using inflammatory language when you refer to people as "your crew" . . . who does that even include? a bunch of people talk about "gangs" on here. just because a group of people agree on a specific topic doesn't make 'em a gang. heck, i found myself agreeing wholeheartedly with a nidan post the other day. am i now in his "gang" or "crew?" (i think nidan would pass out if he thought that was anyone's insinuation).

let's face it, both sides of this debate are guilty of throwing around the word "idiot" or "ignorant" or "pablum eaters." everyone needs to quit being so sensitive. these words are used for emphasis. they may not be nice, but i am saddened if anyone is directly calling anyone else an idiot, even if you think their opinion is idiotic.

Shaddup Jack-Ass!

whoops...wrong poster...nevermind

 

[SeattleCard]

These threads are silly.

 

[vinnymac]

Just remeber what Whiz said at the beginning of the season. He said " He is as happy with the Qb position as he can be."

I read into it as our qb situation isn't any good. Pray that Anderson keep this team competitive.

 

[Duckjake]

Karlos Dansby? Anquan Boldin? Come to mind? The team didnt offer enough to keep the first and didn't want to pay the 2nd? In a year they cut their salary by around 30-40 million?

They payed less for Paris Lenon than for a more proven talent in Larry Foote whom we were obviously interested in IIRC. Although I believe after watching Lenon the correct choice was made.

All indication are that CKW wanted Bulger and management said no go with what you got. As bad as Bulder has been the last few shell shocked years he would have been better. NO DOUBT about it.

You want to put up proof of any of this? And remember I am not including the QB position in this discussion.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Shaddup Jack-Ass!

whoops...wrong poster...nevermind

lol. i'll pass it along to my brother.

 

[Shane]

You want to put up proof of any of this? And remember I am not including the QB position in this discussion.

What do you mean by proof? Of which part? Did you not follow the Cards off season? I'm pretty sure you did?

 

[Duckjake]

What do you mean by proof? Of which part? Did you not follow the Cards off season? I'm pretty sure you did?

You claim in your post that CKW wanted to keep Dansby and Boldin but the front office wouldn't give him the money to do so. I'm simply asking for proof.

I also want to see proof that CKW wanted Foote over Lenon but the Bidwills nixed that because of money.

Either put up the proof or quit claiming it as gospel.

Do you also think that Porter and Faneca and Rhodes were second choices because CKW really wanted better players who were also nixed as too expensive by the Bidwills? I'd like to see proof of that as well.

If not then you need to quit laying the blame for the personnel decisions on the front office. If you have the proof then it is also proof that those who claim we are still seeing the same old cheap Cardinals are correct in their assertions.

 

[Shane]

You claim in your post that CKW wanted to keep Dansby and Boldin but the front office wouldn't give him the money to do so. I'm simply asking for proof.

I also want to see proof that CKW wanted Foote over Lenon but the Bidwills nixed that because of money.

Either put up the proof or quit claiming it as gospel.

Do you also think that Porter and Faneca and Rhodes were second choices because CKW really wanted better players who were also nixed as too expensive by the Bidwills? I'd like to see proof of that as well.

If not then you need to quit laying the blame for the personnel decisions on the front office. If you have the proof then it is also proof that those who claim we are still seeing the same old cheap Cardinals are correct in their assertions.

If you don't think and know that the team and especially KW wanted KD I dont know what to tell you. They offered one helluva contract and pined about how they wanted to keep him since day 1 after last season. Problem is that even though it was a good offer it still wasn't enough. KW doesn't control the purse strings. Graves does. If he isn't willing to pay enough over the other team to get it done there isn't a thing KW can do.

Like Cheese stated earlier KD isnt a guy that was voted captain by the team. He was named appointed one by the HC. Says a lot too IMO.

As far as Lenon vs. Foote Well here is what Foote signed for in Pittsburgh:

3 years almost 10 million and just a tad under 2 million in bonus. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4996817

I tried to finding Lenon's contract details but cant. If it is anywhere in the same range as what Foote received I will eat crow. But I doubt it is. You are an internet specialist try and find it and let me know?

Faneca is cheap and was a non issue. Rolle was wanted back as well. as evidenced by the contract offer that was made AFTER BEING CUT. Once again obviously not enough money offered.

I'll give you Boldin. I dont have a clue whether it was the front office or CKW or both. But either way I just dont see coach wanting to give up a guy like that unless they got fair value in return which IMO they did. That trade allowed us to get Rhodes and eventually Daryl Washington.

No fan can find tangible proof. The writing is on the wall. Its up to you if you choose to read that writing.

Any luck finding the Lenon contract details?

 

[WarnerHOF]

Paris Lenon's contract according to rotoworld.


3/15/2010: Signed a three-year contract. 2010: $900,000, 2011-2012: $1.4 million, 2013: Free Agent

 

[Shane]

Paris Lenon's contract according to rotoworld.


3/15/2010: Signed a three-year contract. 2010: $900,000, 2011-2012: $1.4 million, 2013: Free Agent

Just like I thought nowhere even close to what Larry Foote eventually got. Thank you!

 

[binkar]

I specifically remember Urban, I believe, saying the Cards wanted to sign both Foote and Lenon.

http://www.azcardinals.com/news-and...th-Paris/0ab560e9-5c81-4d74-b904-b65f9422b233

 

[azsouthendzone]

I want PROOF that Wisenhunt prefers Weaties over Crunch Berries.

 

[Mulli]

I want proof that Whiz went to the Cards and asked they cut payroll by 30-40 million.

 

[kerouac9]

If you don't think and know that the team and especially KW wanted KD I dont know what to tell you. They offered one helluva contract and pined about how they wanted to keep him since day 1 after last season. Problem is that even though it was a good offer it still wasn't enough. KW doesn't control the purse strings. Graves does. If he isn't willing to pay enough over the other team to get it done there isn't a thing KW can do.

Like Cheese stated earlier KD isnt a guy that was voted captain by the team. He was named appointed one by the HC. Says a lot too IMO.

As far as Lenon vs. Foote Well here is what Foote signed for in Pittsburgh:

3 years almost 10 million and just a tad under 2 million in bonus. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4996817

I tried to finding Lenon's contract details but cant. If it is anywhere in the same range as what Foote received I will eat crow. But I doubt it is. You are an internet specialist try and find it and let me know?

Faneca is cheap and was a non issue. Rolle was wanted back as well. as evidenced by the contract offer that was made AFTER BEING CUT. Once again obviously not enough money offered.

I'll give you Boldin. I dont have a clue whether it was the front office or CKW or both. But either way I just dont see coach wanting to give up a guy like that unless they got fair value in return which IMO they did. That trade allowed us to get Rhodes and eventually Daryl Washington.

No fan can find tangible proof. The writing is on the wall. Its up to you if you choose to read that writing.

Any luck finding the Lenon contract details?

Cheese was wrong about this. The players vote their captains, and have since KW arrived. It says that the team believed in Dansby as one of their best players and leaders.

On the other hand, that the OL voted Lyle Sendlein captain instead of Levi Brown speaks volumes.