Why David Johnson was so 'awful' last year - and why he'll be great again

[Buckybird]

Right now we have, for certain, maybe one dynamic offensive weapon: DJ. And even he hasn't been dynamic for a while. The rest are question marks. KM is a dynamic athlete. A dynamic NFL QB? Time will tell. KK has no rep as an NFL head coach, and is also a huge question mark. We also have an offensive line that, if they were horses, would be lined up outside the glue factory. We're not necessarily set up for success yet. Not to say we can't get there, or that it can't somehow come together this year, but it is a million miles from an absolute certainty.

True but this offense is also a million times more talented & potentially soooo much more explosive than last season. Night & day regardless of the question marks & Stevie Wonder can see that lol

We’re gonna be pretty good imo. I have ZERO doubts about that!!!

 

[Buckybird]

For the life of me, I cannot understand the sheer positivity here, or the kinds of certainties being thrown out about players or our offense/"improved coaching."

Because they are improved in every offensive position including scheme?

I’ve had/have my doubts about K2 as a HC, but think he will do ok as an NFL play caller

 

[DVontel]

Again, thanks for the sensibility in your posts.

For the life of me, I cannot understand the sheer positivity here, or the kinds of certainties being thrown out about players or our offense/"improved coaching."

This is more like blowing all of your money at the strip club the night before in Vegas so your buddy decides to go put the rest of your money on black in the casino so you can afford the gas to get home.

Okay I got it.


We’re going to go 1-15.

Kyler Murray will turn into Dennis Dixon.

Defense will be last in the league.

There we go.

 

[Solar7]

Because they are improved in every offensive position including scheme?

Improved with total unknowns? We don't know what these guys are yet, or if Father Time will catch up to Larry Legend. We don't know the scheme, as KK is intentionally hiding it. He's only even known some of his coaches for a few months.

The only known quantities we added in the offseason are JR Sweezy and Marcus Gilbert, neither of whom inspire a great deal of excitement.

 

[Solar7]

Okay I got it.


We’re going to go 1-15.

Kyler Murray will turn into Dennis Dixon.

Defense will be last in the league.

There we go.

You know I'm not looking for that. I'm just asking to stop the comparisons to Hall of Fame players, claims that we're about to be the Greatest Show on Turf part 2, and "everything pointing to" us being a dynamic offense. I mean, it's clearly what we're going to attempt.

But go back and look at it all on paper without your rose colored glasses and tell me you would be scared at all of a team in our division "fixing" their offense with an undersized rookie QB, a 2nd round/almost 3rd round undersized WR from UMass, and a 4th round pick at WR.

This isn't like when the Rams went out and added Brandin Cooks, or the Raiders acquiring Antonio Brown... before we start talking about the greatest show on turf, let's break into the top 20.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

True but this offense is also a million times more talented & potentially soooo much more explosive than last season. Night & day regardless of the question marks & Stevie Wonder can see that lol

We’re gonna be pretty good imo. I have ZERO doubts about that!!!

Whenever someone has unrestrained optimism about anything this organization is doing it makes me scratch my head and wonder if they've been following along...

The same crack squad that put this coaching staff and roster together is only a year removed from trying to sell us on Steve Wilks, Mike McCoy, Sam Bradford, scrub WR's (beyond Larry/Kirk), and changing our defensive scheme which had been top 6 in total defense (and dropped like an anchor to 20th).

They though THOSE were good moves...

 

[DVontel]

You know I'm not looking for that. I'm just asking to stop the comparisons to Hall of Fame players, claims that we're about to be the Greatest Show on Turf part 2, and "everything pointing to" us being a dynamic offense. I mean, it's clearly what we're going to attempt.

But go back and look at it all on paper without your rose colored glasses and tell me you would be scared at all of a team in our division "fixing" their offense with an undersized rookie QB, a 2nd round/almost 3rd round undersized WR from UMass, and a 4th round pick at WR.

This isn't like when the Rams went out and added Brandin Cooks, or the Raiders acquiring Antonio Brown... before we start talking about the greatest show on turf, let's break into the top 20.

Are you sure? It seems like every time someone says something even with the smallest bit of positivity, you have to counter it every time. I think there’s a fine line between negativity & reality yet it seems you’ve been flirting with it for a while now.

Probably not a rookie QB. Undersized? Meh. Would you be more afraid if he was 6’6 or something? Same applies to the WR.

No one said it was, but you want to pour a bucket of negativity for absolutely no reason. You say you don’t want Kyler & the offense to fail, but it’s almost hard to believe that.

 

[Solar7]

Are you sure? It seems like every time someone says something even with the smallest bit of positivity, you have to counter it every time. I think there’s a fine line between negativity & reality yet it seems you’ve been flirting with it for a while now.

Probably not a rookie QB. Undersized? Meh. Would you be more afraid if he was 6’6 or something? Same applies to the WR.

No one said it was, but you want to pour a bucket of negativity for absolutely no reason. You say you don’t want Kyler & the offense to fail, but it’s almost hard to believe that.

This is the first year I've ever been a darksider, so maybe it's just that I don't know how to go from turning on the faucet full steam to halfway.

Last year sapped away all of my enthusiasm for the team and leadership, and it doesn't help that I see poor choices seemingly continuing... and from a personal standpoint, it's been a bit of a rough year in that my grandfather just lost a battle with cancer and such. I know I've been a little bit more negative, and I've had more free time on my hands to maybe come here and complain more than I should.

 

[DVontel]

This is the first year I've ever been a darksider, so maybe it's just that I don't know how to go from turning on the faucet full steam to halfway.

Last year sapped away all of my enthusiasm for the team and leadership, and it doesn't help that I see poor choices seemingly continuing... and from a personal standpoint, it's been a bit of a rough year in that my grandfather just lost a battle with cancer and such. I know I've been a little bit more negative, and I've had more free time on my hands to maybe come here and complain more than I should.

Sorry to hear about that. My condolences goes out to you & your family.

 

[Buckybird]

Whenever someone has unrestrained optimism about anything this organization is doing it makes me scratch my head and wonder if they've been following along...

The same crack squad that put this coaching staff and roster together is only a year removed from trying to sell us on Steve Wilks, Mike McCoy, Sam Bradford, scrub WR's (beyond Larry/Kirk), and changing our defensive scheme which had been top 6 in total defense (and dropped like an anchor to 20th).

They though THOSE were good moves...

Yeah no other team & it’s management has failed badly then turned it around in the nfl lol

BIM I’ve also lost some faith in Keim & Michael last season, but I think they killed it this offseason. You know what? They admitted the mistake, fired every coach & churned this roster over dramatically.

Yes we need to see that production on the field, but the 2019 Cardinals arent even in the same league as last years bunch of losers imo. Again many of those starters are gone.

Did you really have ANY faith in Sam Blowford or McCoy as an OC or our suspect WR corps? I didn’t & said so regularly.

 

[kerouac9]

Are you sure? It seems like every time someone says something even with the smallest bit of positivity, you have to counter it every time. I think there’s a fine line between negativity & reality yet it seems you’ve been flirting with it for a while now.

Probably not a rookie QB. Undersized? Meh. Would you be more afraid if he was 6’6 or something? Same applies to the WR.

No one said it was, but you want to pour a bucket of negativity for absolutely no reason. You say you don’t want Kyler & the offense to fail, but it’s almost hard to believe that.

I'll say, without question, YES. I would be thrilled if Murray were 6'6" and everything else were the same. He'd be Cam Newton with a more accurate arm.

I'd also be stoked if Andy Isabella were 6'6". He'd be able to play on the outside. The real fact is that we could be looking at an offense that is extremely crowded in the middle of the field (again) because there aren't any dynamic weapons on the outside. There aren't a lot of legit starting corners who are afraid of Larry 1:1 on the outside; he's not playing so much in the slot on accident.

Cooper Kupp has been an effective chain-mover and safety valve for the Rams in part because he has the size to bully slot corners and create his own openings.

I don't read there being a lot of "negativity", but I do think there isn't enough healthy skepticism from the Sunshine Squad about what WILL happen this season. The history of running out a bunch of inexperienced wide receivers is not good. The Cards' offense Boldin's rookie season was last in the NFL.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I'll say, without question, YES. I would be thrilled if Murray were 6'6" and everything else were the same. He'd be Cam Newton with a more accurate arm.

I'd also be stoked if Andy Isabella were 6'6". He'd be able to play on the outside. The real fact is that we could be looking at an offense that is extremely crowded in the middle of the field (again) because there aren't any dynamic weapons on the outside. There aren't a lot of legit starting corners who are afraid of Larry 1:1 on the outside; he's not playing so much in the slot on accident.

Cooper Kupp has been an effective chain-mover and safety valve for the Rams in part because he has the size to bully slot corners and create his own openings.

I don't read there being a lot of "negativity", but I do think there isn't enough healthy skepticism from the Sunshine Squad about what WILL happen this season. The history of running out a bunch of inexperienced wide receivers is not good. The Cards' offense Boldin's rookie season was last in the NFL.

I'd actually be more concerned if Murray were 6'6 because hed be a bigger target.

As far as making a slight comparison to Boldin's rookie season:

1) what other receivers were on the Cardinals roster that year? Bryant Johnson? Bryan Gilmore? I think that even the darkest of dark siders would agree that Kirk/Fitz and at least having DJ to throw to is much better.

2) Those Dave Mac teams were easily the worst Cardinals teams I've ever seen. Outside of Boldin, their was virtually no hope of anything good.

3) The corpse of Jeff Blake.

 

[kerouac9]

I'd actually be more concerned if Murray were 6'6 because hed be a bigger target.

As far as making a slight comparison to Boldin's rookie season:

1) what other receivers were on the Cardinals roster that year? Bryant Johnson? Bryan Gilmore? I think that even the darkest of dark siders would agree that Kirk/Fitz and at least having DJ to throw to is much better.

2) Those Dave Mac teams were easily the worst Cardinals teams I've ever seen. Outside of Boldin, their was virtually no hope of anything good.

3) The corpse of Jeff Blake.

You mean Boldin was playing with a bunch of young/inexperienced wide receivers? Sounds like a good comparison! If you want to roll it forward a year to a slightly less dark time, go to the next season. Yes, Josh McCown is the QB (who's had a very long NFL career), but Fitz was playing with Boldin and Emmitt Smith, and the offense was still 26th in the NFL.

It makes no logical sense to me to keep saying that because there's no direct comparison to the past, the only reasonable outcome is the ideal outcome. I can't think of a similar example of a team planning to depend on a fringe #2 + three players with so little experience as the primary receiver.

I guess you could look to the Browns with Landry + No one last year. They were 22nd in scoring offense.

 

[AZCB34]

Because they are improved in every offensive position including scheme?

I’ve had/have my doubts about K2 as a HC, but think he will do ok as an NFL play caller

How do you know the scheme is better when you have no idea what the actual scheme looks like? You may think you know but until it actually rolls out all any of us are doing is guessing.

The scheme may prove to be worse than last year you simply have optimism born of ignorance.

I am hopeful your certainty is accurate

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Yes, I think they have a plan. I also think they're doing everything that you say to try to make that plan work. I just don't particularly like the plan. I mean, it might work, but it is one hell of a risky plan that I think can easily blow up in their faces. The problem is, if even one aspect fails, it all blows up in their faces. Spectacularly. If Murray is decent/good but the KK experiment fails, there we are, years behind the 8-ball again. If KK works out but Murray sucks, there we are, years behind the 8-ball again. If Murray and KK are good but the OL/WRs suck, there we are, years behind the 8-ball again. EVERYTHING has to work out perfectly in order for this to be a quick turnaround.

We could have built around what we had and gotten an established coach (as well as a new GM), but we went for all or nothing. Cool if it turns out to be all, but typical Cards futility if it goes the other way.[/QUOTE]

Very reasonable, thanks Stout.

I'm beginning to think that the bolded part is where there's the disconnect between guys like you and @Solar7, and guys like me and Krang.

So, its seems pretty clear that the Cardinal's plan is to try to mimic some version of last year's record-setting, Murray-led, Oklahoma offense.

OU's 2018 offense was championship-worthy, by a lot, and I like a plan for the Cardinals that endeavors to duplicate that kind of proficiency.

And risky? Okay, I agree. But, Arizona has the actual QB that led that offense, a coach that understands the scheme (and who also appreciates K1's unique abilities), and a running back that excels in the passing game.

Short of bringing in Lincoln Riley, you could say the Cardinals are giving the plan a good chance to succeed, couldn't you Stout?

I'm pretty sure the difference between you and Team Murray is in the perception of the chance of success of the K1+K2+DJ strategy.

You see desperation, but we see a calculated risk, with the payoff justifying the odds.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Whenever someone has unrestrained optimism about anything this organization is doing it makes me scratch my head and wonder if they've been following along...

The same crack squad that put this coaching staff and roster together is only a year removed from trying to sell us on Steve Wilks, Mike McCoy, Sam Bradford, scrub WR's (beyond Larry/Kirk), and changing our defensive scheme which had been top 6 in total defense (and dropped like an anchor to 20th).

They though THOSE were good moves...

Yeah I am optimistic but fully prepared to have my heart broken.

 

[Buckybird]

How do you know the scheme is better when you have no idea what the actual scheme looks like? You may think you know but until it actually rolls out all any of us are doing is guessing.

The scheme may prove to be worse than last year you simply have optimism born of ignorance.

I am hopeful your certainty is accurate

Yep I’m ignorant you freaking douche

 

[AZCB34]

Yep I’m ignorant you freaking douche

Not what I meant and you know that but, ok. Perhaps some anger management sessions would be helpful?

 

[Buckybird]

Not what I meant and you know that but, ok. Perhaps some anger management sessions would be helpful?

Well that’s the way I took it & not sure else how you intended on using the words. If that’s not what you say you didn’t meant, I apologize

 

[Stout]

You know I'm not looking for that. I'm just asking to stop the comparisons to Hall of Fame players, claims that we're about to be the Greatest Show on Turf part 2, and "everything pointing to" us being a dynamic offense. I mean, it's clearly what we're going to attempt.

But go back and look at it all on paper without your rose colored glasses and tell me you would be scared at all of a team in our division "fixing" their offense with an undersized rookie QB, a 2nd round/almost 3rd round undersized WR from UMass, and a 4th round pick at WR.

This isn't like when the Rams went out and added Brandin Cooks, or the Raiders acquiring Antonio Brown... before we start talking about the greatest show on turf, let's break into the top 20.

Exactly. Let's be sensible. I think we'll improve, but we have a ton of room for improvement. .500 is feasible. With us criminally ignoring the offensive line again--or, should I say, stacking it with question marks again--I think this offense will be severely limited in what it can do.

 

[Stout]

True but this offense is also a million times more talented & potentially soooo much more explosive than last season. Night & day regardless of the question marks & Stevie Wonder can see that lol

We’re gonna be pretty good imo. I have ZERO doubts about that!!!

I hope that last lol is about your post, because...wow. We're a million times more talented? This offense is night and day? Okay, we HOPE the QB is a huge success, but even if he is, how will he do lying flat on his back? Because this offensive line hasn't been fixed. We don't know what we have at WR, except we know we don't have a great outside/downfield threat. We hope DJ bounces back, but can he?

 

[Stout]

Yes, I think they have a plan. I also think they're doing everything that you say to try to make that plan work. I just don't particularly like the plan. I mean, it might work, but it is one hell of a risky plan that I think can easily blow up in their faces. The problem is, if even one aspect fails, it all blows up in their faces. Spectacularly. If Murray is decent/good but the KK experiment fails, there we are, years behind the 8-ball again. If KK works out but Murray sucks, there we are, years behind the 8-ball again. If Murray and KK are good but the OL/WRs suck, there we are, years behind the 8-ball again. EVERYTHING has to work out perfectly in order for this to be a quick turnaround.

We could have built around what we had and gotten an established coach (as well as a new GM), but we went for all or nothing. Cool if it turns out to be all, but typical Cards futility if it goes the other way.

Very reasonable, thanks Stout.

I'm beginning to think that the bolded part is where there's the disconnect between guys like you and @Solar7, and guys like me and Krang.

So, its seems pretty clear that the Cardinal's plan is to try to mimic some version of last year's record-setting, Murray-led, Oklahoma offense.

OU's 2018 offense was championship-worthy, by a lot, and I like a plan for the Cardinals that endeavors to duplicate that kind of proficiency.

And risky? Okay, I agree. But, Arizona has the actual QB that led that offense, a coach that understands the scheme (and who also appreciates K1's unique abilities), and a running back that excels in the passing game.

Short of bringing in Lincoln Riley, you could say the Cardinals are giving the plan a good chance to succeed, couldn't you Stout?

I'm pretty sure the difference between you and Team Murray is in the perception of the chance of success of the K1+K2+DJ strategy.

You see desperation, but we see a calculated risk, with the payoff justifying the odds.[/QUOTE]

Yep, that's where the disconnect is. I won't say desperate, but more misguided. I can definitely see what you see, that they're trying to replicate OU's offense, and that's what scares me. It's a COLLEGE offense. Teams don't do well in the NFL running college offenses, because it's the pros and NOT college. It just doesn't translate. You said it was championship-worthy...IN COLLEGE.

We joke a lot about Arians and "No risk it, no biscuit," but boy, is this ever bigger than any Arians risk!

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Right now we have, for certain, maybe one dynamic offensive weapon: DJ. And even he hasn't been dynamic for a while. The rest are question marks. KM is a dynamic athlete. A dynamic NFL QB? Time will tell. KK has no rep as an NFL head coach, and is also a huge question mark. We also have an offensive line that, if they were horses, would be lined up outside the glue factory. We're not necessarily set up for success yet. Not to say we can't get there, or that it can't somehow come together this year, but it is a million miles from an absolute certainty.

This team has to show us they can make this offense work in the NFL. And to do it consistently throughout the year. The defensive DC's in this league make a living shutting down offenses after studying them.

Coach K has to learn how to win in the NFL. There are so many details that go into winning games that make it very difficult.

I want this team to win because it's my team and I back them all the way. But to believe that we are going to change the NFL with our new offensive scheme will take some time. I am not going to blindly buy into all the hype. I need to see it in action.

So much for this team to learn and to grow as a team. Hopefully we can make it work.

Go Cardinals!

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Yep, that's where the disconnect is. I won't say desperate, but more misguided. I can definitely see what you see, that they're trying to replicate OU's offense, and that's what scares me. It's a COLLEGE offense. Teams don't do well in the NFL running college offenses, because it's the pros and NOT college. It just doesn't translate. You said it was championship-worthy...IN COLLEGE.

We joke a lot about Arians and "No risk it, no biscuit," but boy, is this ever bigger than any Arians risk!

For the bolded part.. Stout did you know that, the last couple of years, NFL coaches have been visiting Riley in Norman, to pick his brain about offensive concepts?

 

[Jetstream Green]

DJ will be great again when he shows he's great again... he controls the how, when, and why