Kliff Kingsbury and Kyler Murray Are Running Out of Time to Produce Fireworks - The Ringer

[football karma]

Kliff has work to do, but why would anyone listen to Rex Ryan's takes on offensive football?

 

[kerouac9]

Its like a boxing match. You can't just keep throwing punches. There are times you need to slow down and pick your punches or you're spent by round 4.

We don't do it 98% of the time. Kliff very rarely goes up-tempo unless the offense has already created a first down.

 

[BritCard]

Kliff has work to do, but why would anyone listen to Rex Ryan's takes on offensive football?

Rex is a clown but he's also not really wrong is he?

His offense hasn't really worked. It's been carried by talent rather than enhancing talent. And yes Kliff has grown and has got better but he's still clinging to principles that just don't work well at this level.

 

[BritCard]

We don't do it 98% of the time. Kliff very rarely goes up-tempo unless the offense has already created a first down.

32% of our plays were no huddle last year. Next highest was Giants at 23% then Titans at 13%.

Tampa and KC were 3% and 1%.

We also led the league in shortest time between snaps in neutral situations.

 

[SoonerLou]

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[football karma]

Rex is a clown but he's also not really wrong is he?

His offense hasn't really worked. It's been carried by talent rather than enhancing talent. And yes Kliff has grown and has got better but he's still clinging to principles that just don't work well at this level.

contrarian take:

Kliff isnt perfect and both scheme and execution need to improve in certain areas, but:

the offense scheme overall is fine and will produce as long at K1 is healthy.

for all its problems in 2020: it finished 6th in yards, 13th in points and was 10th in red zone % for scoring TDs. This doesn't happen with an offense that doesn't work well.

as a control for "it was the schedule": the 2020 Rams had a healthy offense and McVay is one of those guys who "enhances talent" -- they finished 23rd in pts per game / 19th in redzone.

 

[BritCard]

contrarian take:

Kliff isnt perfect and both scheme and execution need to improve in certain areas, but:

the offense scheme overall is fine and will produce as long at K1 is healthy.

for all its problems in 2020: it finished 6th in yards, 13th in points and was 10th in red zone % for scoring TDs. This doesn't happen with an offense that doesn't work well.

as a control for "it was the schedule": the 2020 Rams had a healthy offense and McVay is one of those guys who "enhances talent" -- they finished 23rd in pts per game / 19th in redzone.

Several analytical sites and respected analysts disagree. Heck, even the average fan can tell you that running so much no huddle, so much tempo, so little pre snap motion, so little route variation, barely moving players around and doing that every week with little regard for who you are playing is not a recipe for successful football.

 

[SoonerLou]

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[football karma]

Several analytical sites and respected analysts disagree. Heck, even the average fan can tell you that running so much no huddle, so much tempo, so little pre snap motion, so little route variation, barely moving players around and doing that every week with little regard for who you are playing is not a recipe for successful football.

hence the "contrarian take"

i like analytics, but they measure offensive performance overall rather picking on scheme. So we are back to "is it talent, or is it scheme?" I think its mostly talent, with some K1 shoulder issues thrown in.

what is unanswered: the offense used lots of motion in 2019 but far less in 2020. The route trees were more varied in 2019 than 2020. There is likely a football reason for this other than "kliff is dumb".

 

[BritCard]

hence the "contrarian take"

i like analytics, but they measure offensive performance overall rather picking on scheme. So we are back to "is it talent, or is it scheme?" I think its mostly talent, with some K1 shoulder issues thrown in.

what is unanswered: the offense used lots of motion in 2019 but far less in 2020. The route trees were more varied in 2019 than 2020. There is likely a football reason for this other than "kliff is dumb".

I agree but what could the answer possibly be? What coach has ever said "We have a top 3 WR now, better receivers overall, a better O line, our QB has a year under his belt...what we really need to do now is make our scheme simpler".

I just can't think why. I've said something similar before when pointing our Kirk's usage from '19 to '20. Kirks targets dropped from 108 to 79 which was bad enough, I know we had Nuk but we trow a lot of balls to go around. But he stopped using Kirk on runs. Kirk had 10 rushes for 93 yards in '19 at 9.3 YPC. So what did Kliff do? Give him 2 in 2020.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

hence the "contrarian take"

i like analytics, but they measure offensive performance overall rather picking on scheme. So we are back to "is it talent, or is it scheme?" I think its mostly talent, with some K1 shoulder issues thrown in.

what is unanswered: the offense used lots of motion in 2019 but far less in 2020. The route trees were more varied in 2019 than 2020. There is likely a football reason for this other than "kliff is dumb".

You're trying to inject logic in a situation where it doesn't exist. Why did we continue to run bubble screens to wr that never worked? Why did we have so many pre snap penalties in empty stadiums with no motion? Why did it look like two years in that nobody was on the same page? HOW DOES A COACH CALL A QB OPTION WHEN THE QB IS INJURED, DOWN 11 POINTS WITH 5 MINUTES LEFT ON 3RD AND 18, AND THEN PUNT IN A MUST WIN GAME?!?

When someone shows you who they are, believe them. There is a reason that KK is the odds on favor to be the first coach fired.

 

[BritCard]

You're trying to inject logic in a situation where it doesn't exist. Why did we continue to run bubble screens to wr that never worked? Why did we have so many pre snap penalties in empty stadiums with no motion? Why did it look like two years in that nobody was on the same page? HOW DOES A COACH CALL A QB OPTION WHEN THE QB IS INJURED, DOWN 11 POINTS WITH 5 MINUTES LEFT ON 3RD AND 18, AND THEN PUNT IN A MUST WIN GAME?!?

When someone shows you who they are, believe them. There is a reason that KK is the odds on favor to be the first coach fired.

Nobody would expect a speed option with a QB with an injured leg though

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[football karma]

I agree but what could the answer possibly be? What coach has ever said "We have a top 3 WR now, better receivers overall, a better O line, our QB has a year under his belt...what we really need to do now is make our scheme simpler".

they did incorporate a focal point new WR without much of an offseason and one who tended not to practice very much during the season

it also felt like they made a decision to try to simplify K1s decision making -- maybe to cut down on TOs or something.

on Kirk: i think that with DHop as one outside guy -- and the Fitz was limited to slot -- it forced Kirk into the other outside slot.

This is 2019 Murray highlights.

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Maybe not 100% indicative, but the outside guys on many, many of the plays were Kesean Johnson, Damiere Byrd with some Crabtree and Pharoh Cooper thrown in. Kirk most of the time was in the slot.

here is 2020:

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Kirk is very often line opposite of Hopkins on the outside, with Fitz and Isabella (early) or Dan Arnold (later) in the slot

this might also answer "Why AJ Green?". A bigger, outside target that also frees Kirk to go into the slot again

 

[BritCard]

they did incorporate a focal point new WR without much of an offseason and one who tended not to practice very much during the season

it also felt like they made a decision to try to simplify K1s decision making -- maybe to cut down on TOs or something.

on Kirk: i think that with DHop as one outside guy -- and the Fitz was limited to slot -- it forced Kirk into the other outside slot.

This is 2019 Murray highlights.

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Maybe not 100% indicative, but the outside guys on many, many of the plays were Kesean Johnson, Damiere Byrd with some Crabtree and Pharoh Cooper thrown in. Kirk most of the time was in the slot.

here is 2020:

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Kirk is very often line opposite of Hopkins on the outside, with Fitz and Isabella (early) or Dan Arnold (later) in the slot

this might also answer "Why AJ Green?". A bigger, outside target that also frees Kirk to go into the slot again

He's never been a big slot guy

21% in 2018
30% in 2019
11% in 2020

It was less but I think that more Kliff being stupidly rigid last year.