100%CardsFan said:
The biggest home town cheer went up when Kent Graham went down and Jake came in. Totally classless. I never cheer when someone gets injured. You may be happy a good player is out of the game but to stand up and cheer is beyond me.
Why didnt TJ do this in AZ?
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The biggest home town cheer went up when Kent Graham went down and Jake came in. Totally classless. I never cheer when someone gets injured. You may be happy a good player is out of the game but to stand up and cheer is beyond me.
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I believe JOnes and Hearst's careers will have the exact same trajectory - showing some promise in AZ - ut never that amount we expected - get cut . . . play pretty well on their next team in limited duty and have very nice - not top tier - but very nice careers as above average running backs.
Come on guys - anyone who can rush for 100 yards when Jonathan Quin annd Bobby Wade are the alternative weapons is doing something right.
Oh and Skkorp - you can't just take away his best game and then compare his stats to Emmitt's - I'm sure if you took away Emmitt's game against the Sieves, er, I mean, the Saints - his stats wouldn't look like anything to crow about.
There is no comparison between Smith and Jones right now - Smith plays in a better offense, is on the wrong side of 35 and will be done after this season - and Jones still blows him away.
Come on guys - anyone who can rush for 100 yards when Jonathan Quin annd Bobby Wade are the alternative weapons is doing something right.
Oh and Skkorp - you can't just take away his best game and then compare his stats to Emmitt's - I'm sure if you took away Emmitt's game against the Sieves, er, I mean, the Saints - his stats wouldn't look like anything to crow about.
There is no comparison between Smith and Jones right now - Smith plays in a better offense, is on the wrong side of 35 and will be done after this season - and Jones still blows him away.
Lex
troublemaker
There were no cheers when TJ broke his hand answering the phone at home.
There were no cheers when TJ couldn't get on the field for two years before discovering he had a "breathing problem."
There were no cheers when TJ was replaced EVERY YEAR at running back, by someone drafted much later than him, making much less money than him, after TJ was named starter for no reason EVERY YEAR.
TJ should wear a mask, considering all the money he's stolen from NFL teams in his career. Oh, and he should give half of his current paycheck to JOHN TAIT.
There were no cheers when TJ couldn't get on the field for two years before discovering he had a "breathing problem."
There were no cheers when TJ was replaced EVERY YEAR at running back, by someone drafted much later than him, making much less money than him, after TJ was named starter for no reason EVERY YEAR.
TJ should wear a mask, considering all the money he's stolen from NFL teams in his career. Oh, and he should give half of his current paycheck to JOHN TAIT.
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Lex said:
Who should pay back the money?
TJ has a case against the pathetic coaching and blocking in his time in AZ.
As for TAIT: If he makes the Pro Bowl, he'll be thanking TJ for all of the highlight footage that helped get him there....
Lex
troublemaker
Crazy Canuck-
TJ should pay back the money.
TJ has no case against the Cardinals. We gave him a starting job every season for no reason. We drafted offensive linemen to block for him.
Frankly, TJ was brought here because we took Jake Plummer in 1997, and he took us to the playoffs in 98. Then we added to the Jake success with Boston and LJ Shelton in 99. Then we took Thomas Jones in 2000 with the 7th overall choice. In 01, we spent the #2 overall pick on Leonard Davis.
Still, TJ couldn't beat out Pittman, a 4th rounder out of Fresno state, here, OR in Tampa Bay. Heck, the best thing that ever happened to TJ, was when he got out of Michael Pittman's shadow.
As for Tait, he was a #14 overall draft pick, blocked for Priest Holmes, till this year, and was tagged by the Chiefs till Chicago pony'd up enough dough to steal him from KC. Chicago did a major face lift on thier O-line this year, TJ is taking the credit.
TJ should pay back the money.
TJ has no case against the Cardinals. We gave him a starting job every season for no reason. We drafted offensive linemen to block for him.
Frankly, TJ was brought here because we took Jake Plummer in 1997, and he took us to the playoffs in 98. Then we added to the Jake success with Boston and LJ Shelton in 99. Then we took Thomas Jones in 2000 with the 7th overall choice. In 01, we spent the #2 overall pick on Leonard Davis.
Still, TJ couldn't beat out Pittman, a 4th rounder out of Fresno state, here, OR in Tampa Bay. Heck, the best thing that ever happened to TJ, was when he got out of Michael Pittman's shadow.
As for Tait, he was a #14 overall draft pick, blocked for Priest Holmes, till this year, and was tagged by the Chiefs till Chicago pony'd up enough dough to steal him from KC. Chicago did a major face lift on thier O-line this year, TJ is taking the credit.
That may be, but if you've seen TJ play in Chicago this year you know that while he is finding some holes, he's also breaking tackles--something he never did in AZ. He's tough to bring down this year whereas when he was with us he was tough to keep on his feet.Lex said:
He's playing different now than he played with us and I don't think it's because of the line--he's finally living up to his pre-draft billing.
Cbus cardsfan
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Jones didn't sign a below market value contract.He was actually considered overpaid when he signed it this past off-season.The Bears new oc knew Jones was the type of back he needed for his offense.He signed a 4 or 5 year deal.The best comparison as to why JOnes is better now is just look at Calvin Pace.He's actually producing now that he a legitimate NFL staff coaching him. To compare Smith to JOnes,at this point of their career is useless.Jones is a ton better now.As for wondering why we let Jones and now he's producing, do you think Baltimore is wondering why they let Priest Holmes go for nothing? Some backs just fit a system better and Jones found his system.It's funny,though,how Jones ,Faulk,and Holmes all found their niche in basically the same system and all were given up on by a previous team.
Just to nitpick, I don't think Faulk should be limped in with these guys. His situation is a little different--he WAS preforming in Indy, but if I remember correctly, he just wasn't happy there. He certainly excelled in the Rams high-flying offense, but he was already considered a marqee back.Cbus cardsfan said:
spanky1
Registered User
DevonCardsFan said:
We might have been the ones to cut out his heart. He was under an unrealistic microscope and Mac NEVER liked him.
Lex
troublemaker
Spanky1-
Mac didn't like TJ? If that was true, why is it he gave him the starting job every year for no reason?
Unrealistic microscope?
Let's look at running backs taken in the top ten draft picks from 99-03:
1999) #4 Edgerrin James--#5 Ricky Williams.
2000) #5 Jamal Lewis--#7 Thomas Jones.
2001) #5 LaDaninan Tomlinson.
2002) None.
2003) None.
Five running backs taken in the top ten in the last 5 years. Four great backs and a "WHO?" THAT'S the microscope TJ should have been under, when he found out he could coast, he did.
Mac didn't like TJ? If that was true, why is it he gave him the starting job every year for no reason?
Unrealistic microscope?
Let's look at running backs taken in the top ten draft picks from 99-03:
1999) #4 Edgerrin James--#5 Ricky Williams.
2000) #5 Jamal Lewis--#7 Thomas Jones.
2001) #5 LaDaninan Tomlinson.
2002) None.
2003) None.
Five running backs taken in the top ten in the last 5 years. Four great backs and a "WHO?" THAT'S the microscope TJ should have been under, when he found out he could coast, he did.
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I talked about TJ for years and the HUGE mistake made by foolish wannabe coaches and fans discreditting great raw talent. TJ is a top notch RB that can become the identity of an offence. While here, the offensive co-ordinator and coaching staff had no idea how to use him... and worse yet, how to identify him. He has terrific power and speed... he possessed these qualities at Virginia and he possessed them while here and he possesses them now that he's in Chicago.
As far as his signing with Chicago, he chose Chicago from a host of NFL teams that were after his services... including Joe Gibbs in Washington. TJ chose Chicago because they recognized that he could be the 'identity' of the team..
I for one, have always liked the talent that TJ possessed. I liked his intensity and most of all his desire to win. he is a top notch talent that has the skills to be a team identity.
THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT TJ IS ONE HELLUVA FOOTBALL PLAYER AND NOW THAT HE HAS A COACHING STAFF THAT WILL GIVE HIM THE DAMN BALL, HE'S ONLY GOING TO GET BETTER.... Lovie Smith did what an upper echelon coaching staff should always do... LOVIE MADE SURE THERE WAS NO DISPUTING THAT TJ WAS #1 (NOT ANTHONY THOMAS) and the undisputed team identity.
What we should be doing is taking this experience with TJ and our other young studs and learning from it....
We drafted Fitzgerald and gave him a huge contract... that means that he should be our team identity.... But in doing so we pissed off Boldin by not renegotiating his contract first! Especially since Boldin proved that he should be the 'identity'. Now that DG is renegotiating Boldin's contract, we're already heading down a slippery slope. Should Boldin's contract become less than Fitzgerald's without firmly establishing the pecking order.... expect problems... either Fitzgerald or Boldin have to be our go to guy... or we will be on here speaking of Fitzgerald the same way we are now talking about TJ. Worse yet Fitz., Boldin and our other high potential players will become stars for other teams.
DG ran into problems with Carter and Moss and I hope history doesn't repeat itself here.
It was the lack of ability to manage star athletes that has eluded past coaching regimes in 'Zona (and it was also DG's demise in Minnesota). I just hope DG has learned from past mistakes and handles the Boldin situation appropriately. This is what happened to TJ in 'Zona. Unless you are a skilled people person, it is never wise to attempt to have several star athletes (young studs drafted in the first round) without establishing with clear authority the roles of each player. The problems with Boston, TJ, Plummer were all born out of this poor coaching. All three of these guys are first class athletes... our scouts did a great job identifying talent... but our coaches destroyed Boston and almost wrecked Plummer and TJ as well.
As for McCown and our other supporting cast members; we need to address problems on offence through our identity... and if we're on here disputing who our identity is... then we're already heading down the wrong path again...
This is why McCown makes a great fit for the DG offence and why Emmitt Smith does not. As for drafting a 1st round RB, we would be a lot better of drafting a first round defensive identity, and then adding a top notch, round #2 RB that could assume a supporting cast position in support of our wr identity. Picking a RB too early will separate the cohesiveness of a TEAM.
Just like an offensive identity, we need a defensive identity. With the release of Jackson, DG is telling us that he'll choose a Defensive identity in round #1 in the Aprill draft.
Hopefully those of you who have been around teams can understand what I'm talking about... although I'm sure I'll still hear from those same knuckle heads that hurl quick insults and babble on about microscopic symptoms rather than the overall disease.
I think we need to watch the moves that Denny makes with Boldin and Fitz. very carefully... not to mention McCown. Dumping Kendall suggests to me that DG is aware of the mistake he made in Minnesota and that we should not see a repeat offence here..... and we should hope he has.
As far as his signing with Chicago, he chose Chicago from a host of NFL teams that were after his services... including Joe Gibbs in Washington. TJ chose Chicago because they recognized that he could be the 'identity' of the team..
I for one, have always liked the talent that TJ possessed. I liked his intensity and most of all his desire to win. he is a top notch talent that has the skills to be a team identity.
THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT TJ IS ONE HELLUVA FOOTBALL PLAYER AND NOW THAT HE HAS A COACHING STAFF THAT WILL GIVE HIM THE DAMN BALL, HE'S ONLY GOING TO GET BETTER.... Lovie Smith did what an upper echelon coaching staff should always do... LOVIE MADE SURE THERE WAS NO DISPUTING THAT TJ WAS #1 (NOT ANTHONY THOMAS) and the undisputed team identity.
What we should be doing is taking this experience with TJ and our other young studs and learning from it....
We drafted Fitzgerald and gave him a huge contract... that means that he should be our team identity.... But in doing so we pissed off Boldin by not renegotiating his contract first! Especially since Boldin proved that he should be the 'identity'. Now that DG is renegotiating Boldin's contract, we're already heading down a slippery slope. Should Boldin's contract become less than Fitzgerald's without firmly establishing the pecking order.... expect problems... either Fitzgerald or Boldin have to be our go to guy... or we will be on here speaking of Fitzgerald the same way we are now talking about TJ. Worse yet Fitz., Boldin and our other high potential players will become stars for other teams.
DG ran into problems with Carter and Moss and I hope history doesn't repeat itself here.
It was the lack of ability to manage star athletes that has eluded past coaching regimes in 'Zona (and it was also DG's demise in Minnesota). I just hope DG has learned from past mistakes and handles the Boldin situation appropriately. This is what happened to TJ in 'Zona. Unless you are a skilled people person, it is never wise to attempt to have several star athletes (young studs drafted in the first round) without establishing with clear authority the roles of each player. The problems with Boston, TJ, Plummer were all born out of this poor coaching. All three of these guys are first class athletes... our scouts did a great job identifying talent... but our coaches destroyed Boston and almost wrecked Plummer and TJ as well.
As for McCown and our other supporting cast members; we need to address problems on offence through our identity... and if we're on here disputing who our identity is... then we're already heading down the wrong path again...
This is why McCown makes a great fit for the DG offence and why Emmitt Smith does not. As for drafting a 1st round RB, we would be a lot better of drafting a first round defensive identity, and then adding a top notch, round #2 RB that could assume a supporting cast position in support of our wr identity. Picking a RB too early will separate the cohesiveness of a TEAM.
Just like an offensive identity, we need a defensive identity. With the release of Jackson, DG is telling us that he'll choose a Defensive identity in round #1 in the Aprill draft.
Hopefully those of you who have been around teams can understand what I'm talking about... although I'm sure I'll still hear from those same knuckle heads that hurl quick insults and babble on about microscopic symptoms rather than the overall disease.
I think we need to watch the moves that Denny makes with Boldin and Fitz. very carefully... not to mention McCown. Dumping Kendall suggests to me that DG is aware of the mistake he made in Minnesota and that we should not see a repeat offence here..... and we should hope he has.
Lex
troublemaker
Canuck Cardinal-
That whole post was a bunch of moose dung. (how's that for a quick hurled insult?)
So, what you're saying is that we didn't coddle TJ enough?
We didn't stroke his ego enough?
We had the GALL to employ a 1500 yard receiver before we drafted TJ, and didn't cut him immediately once TJ, our new identity arrived?
How COULD WE not know TJ was our IDENTITY when he rushed for 373 yards his rookie year, while a fourth round draft pick from Fresno State rushed for 719 for us?
How COULD WE still not know TJ was our IDENTITY when he rushed for 380 yards his second year, while that 4th rounder from Fresno State rushed for 846 for us?
How COULD WE STILL not know TJ was our IDENTITY when he rushed for 511 yards his 3rd year, while an undrafted rookie from UMass rushed for 834 yards?
TJ must have been under the same mistaken impression as you. A player is not HANDED the job of IDENTITY of a team. A player that goes out and proves his worth on the field of play EARNS that designation.
As you can clearly see, TJ never did that.
That whole post was a bunch of moose dung. (how's that for a quick hurled insult?)
So, what you're saying is that we didn't coddle TJ enough?
We didn't stroke his ego enough?
We had the GALL to employ a 1500 yard receiver before we drafted TJ, and didn't cut him immediately once TJ, our new identity arrived?
How COULD WE not know TJ was our IDENTITY when he rushed for 373 yards his rookie year, while a fourth round draft pick from Fresno State rushed for 719 for us?
How COULD WE still not know TJ was our IDENTITY when he rushed for 380 yards his second year, while that 4th rounder from Fresno State rushed for 846 for us?
How COULD WE STILL not know TJ was our IDENTITY when he rushed for 511 yards his 3rd year, while an undrafted rookie from UMass rushed for 834 yards?
TJ must have been under the same mistaken impression as you. A player is not HANDED the job of IDENTITY of a team. A player that goes out and proves his worth on the field of play EARNS that designation.
As you can clearly see, TJ never did that.
I think TJ was playing hurt much of the season. I personally thought we should have kept him at the time as we got nothing for him. This guy was one of the best running backs in the nation and you just do not go from that to a loser overnight. If you are a great running back in a major college program you have a good chance to make it in the NFL. RB's do not need a lot of experience they come with the ability to run. You do not coach speed,moves, or power.
John, I might agree with you if I'd never seen Leland McElroy play in the NFL.
John, I might agree with you if I'd never seen Leland McElroy play in the NFL.
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No Dipstick... I'm saying we should never have drafted TJ... we should have picked a defensive identity... what we did with TJ was screw up Boston and Plummer even more than we had the previous year...
Great motion pictures have a leading actor and a leading actress... the rest are all supporting cast... we better figure this **** out or we'll wallow with losing seasons for years to come... regardless of who we draft or sign !
Football is a team sport... that requires a coach that understands people behaviour... this is why TJ did not perform and eventually, all three stars went to other teams.... too bad that we screwed up Boston as bad as we did.
Great motion pictures have a leading actor and a leading actress... the rest are all supporting cast... we better figure this **** out or we'll wallow with losing seasons for years to come... regardless of who we draft or sign !
Football is a team sport... that requires a coach that understands people behaviour... this is why TJ did not perform and eventually, all three stars went to other teams.... too bad that we screwed up Boston as bad as we did.
SECTION 11
vibraslap
Canuck Cardinal said:
Come again?
clif
ASFN Addict
I guess it was the cards fault he was smoking crackSECTION 11 said:
Lex
troublemaker
Clif, Clif, Clif.
We don't know if DB smoked crack.
We do know the police found two baggies of cocaine in the back seat of the squad car DB was riding in the night he got busted for DUI.
We don't know if DB smoked crack.
We do know the police found two baggies of cocaine in the back seat of the squad car DB was riding in the night he got busted for DUI.
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Lex said:
Contract Law 101... something you're evidently not familar with... says he doesn't owe anybody any money...
P.S. (to all) please do not confuse the two Canucks who've posted
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Canuck Cardinal
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Smokin' crack, boozing, etc are all symptoms of poor interest !
These guys were top notch athletes that were all promised the starring role... only to find out they were lied to once training camp started... no one including the fans could tell you definitively who the team offensive identity was.
In dealing with young studs, that were all the focus of their team in college, a clear role in the Cardinals offense should and needs to be enforced. This is the discipline that we lacked with the old coaching regime.
These guys were top notch athletes that were all promised the starring role... only to find out they were lied to once training camp started... no one including the fans could tell you definitively who the team offensive identity was.
In dealing with young studs, that were all the focus of their team in college, a clear role in the Cardinals offense should and needs to be enforced. This is the discipline that we lacked with the old coaching regime.
Lex
troublemaker
Canuck-
The year we drafted TJ, our front four was, Andre Wadsworth (#2 overall, next Bruce Smith) Russell Davis (still performing) Mark Smith (the find of the year) and Simeon Rice. (#3 overall pick)
So, if we should have drafted a defensive identity instead of TJ, so we wouldn't screw up the chemistry on the offense, wouldn't we have pissed off the #2, and #3 overall picks on defense?
I don't get it, must be a dipstick.
The year we drafted TJ, our front four was, Andre Wadsworth (#2 overall, next Bruce Smith) Russell Davis (still performing) Mark Smith (the find of the year) and Simeon Rice. (#3 overall pick)
So, if we should have drafted a defensive identity instead of TJ, so we wouldn't screw up the chemistry on the offense, wouldn't we have pissed off the #2, and #3 overall picks on defense?
I don't get it, must be a dipstick.
SECTION 11
vibraslap
So Boston's problems in San Diego and Miami were related to.... the Cardinals drafting Jones?
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You're right, but these guys assumed supporting roles to Simeon rice... I'm not saying we should have drafted a defensive identity on offense or defense but rather that we should have ensured that the players "KNOW THEIR ROLE !".
I feel that we could have drafted abetter defensive team identity at safety or CB... a Ray Lewis type... because Simeon wasn't looking to be a defensive identity (he's not outspoken enough.. like Ray lewis)... his personality fits better as a supporting cast member... just as he became in Tampa.
One of tampa's biggest problems this year is the densive identity they lost with Warren Sapp... one of the biggest reasons for the marked improvement in Detroit ... is Brock Marion... in Denver... John Lynch.
TJ is actually the guy the press talks to in Chicago... it's a position he relishes.. so does Plummer in Denver. That's why Plummer is Shanny's offensive identity and Plummer is having a pro bowl caliber year.
I feel that we could have drafted abetter defensive team identity at safety or CB... a Ray Lewis type... because Simeon wasn't looking to be a defensive identity (he's not outspoken enough.. like Ray lewis)... his personality fits better as a supporting cast member... just as he became in Tampa.
One of tampa's biggest problems this year is the densive identity they lost with Warren Sapp... one of the biggest reasons for the marked improvement in Detroit ... is Brock Marion... in Denver... John Lynch.
TJ is actually the guy the press talks to in Chicago... it's a position he relishes.. so does Plummer in Denver. That's why Plummer is Shanny's offensive identity and Plummer is having a pro bowl caliber year.
Simeon not outspoken??? Did I miss something??Canuck Cardinal said:
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Lex said:
FYI
Other than on MOOSEHEAD BEER, there aren't many moose in Nova Scotia, where Canuck Cardinal lives. Fair number in New Brunswick... large numbers in Quebec in Ontario.
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Boston didn't have any issues in Miami. he was actually looking really excellent in camp and had recommitted to extensive weight reducing camps for the Dolphins... Boston was a model receiver before tearing his achilles in Miami.
As for San Diego, Boston was disgusted with the NFL, when he arrived in San Diego, it took some really excellent coaching by Marty to get Boston to even begin to show interest in the game again. Problem was... Marty already had an offensive identity by the name of LT and he couldn't afford to continue to expend large quantities of time and money trying to correct the screwed up brain that Boston left Phoenix with !
marty never really gave up on Boston and actaully assisted Boston in getting the job in Miami.
As for San Diego, Boston was disgusted with the NFL, when he arrived in San Diego, it took some really excellent coaching by Marty to get Boston to even begin to show interest in the game again. Problem was... Marty already had an offensive identity by the name of LT and he couldn't afford to continue to expend large quantities of time and money trying to correct the screwed up brain that Boston left Phoenix with !
marty never really gave up on Boston and actaully assisted Boston in getting the job in Miami.
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