Why I'm inclined to go back to Warner versus Dallas

spanky1

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For all McCown's speed (whatever else one might say about him, he is faster than most QB's), he doesn't seem to use it to his advantage most of the time. Yesterday for example, he lost big time yardage every time he tucked the ball in and tried to scramble. My guess is that would happen versus Dallas as well. They are as quick as we are on defense.

Our O-Line is not capable of operating in a floating pocket type manner and this does not work to McCown's advantage when he needs to scramble.......and he is not a good passing QB on the run a la Favre for example.

To beat Dallas, I think we need to have Warner's vision and abilities to read the field/and a defense. Protecting an immobile QB who will only take the three step drops and look for the hot reads, allows for a "simpler" O-LIne strategy. For all our O-Lines inability with a running game, they are OK at pass blocking.

jmho
 

40yearfan

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With this O-line, Warner would be lucky to last through the first two series.
 

CaptTurbo

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40yearfan said:
With this O-line, Warner would be lucky to last through the first two series.

:biglaugh:

First, Warners current injury wasnt even from a hit.

Second, the line pass blocked much worse the first 3 games.


You could say, had Josh played Games 1-3 he would be dead right now. :shrug:
 

MadCardDisease

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I agree. As bad as this line run blocks. It's pass blocking is giving McCown time to Survey the field most of the time. Wakefield with his long arms is well suited to pass blocking and has done a good job pass blocking the last couple of games.

With Warner, at least we know that he will find the open WR and get him the ball. Sure we will take a few sacks. At least they won't be for a 16 yard loss.
 

Shane

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MadCardDisease said:
I agree. As bad as this line run blocks. It's pass blocking is giving McCown time to Survey the field most of the time. Wakefield with his long arms is well suited to pass blocking and has done a good job pass blocking the last couple of games.

With Warner, at least we know that he will find the open WR and get him the ball. Sure we will take a few sacks. At least they won't be for a 16 yard loss.
:biglaugh:

Sorry madcard but McCown had no time a moajority of the gamne yesterday in pass protection. Now in previous games I would agree. But not yesterday. They regressed terribly.
 

football karma

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yesterday the pressure was pretty constant -- and many times it came right up the gut, not letting McCown step up.

That being said-- there were at least five times that Josh broke contain, had all kinds of time, and just flat missed the throw.

One example in the second half was the long throw to Boldin that was out of bounds -- all Josh had to do was throw it in bounds with a decent lead and it would have been a TD.

He has missed several where he throws on the move, and the ball sail too far in the direction of his scramble.
 

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en fuego said:
yesterday the pressure was pretty constant -- and many times it came right up the gut, not letting McCown step up.

That being said-- there were at least five times that Josh broke contain, had all kinds of time, and just flat missed the throw.

One example in the second half was the long throw to Boldin that was out of bounds -- all Josh had to do was throw it in bounds with a decent lead and it would have been a TD.

He has missed several where he throws on the move, and the ball sail too far in the direction of his scramble.

COnsidering Boldins day yesterday he would have probably dropped it. :)
 

earthsci

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Skkorpion said:
Whoever Denny Green chooses is fine by me.
Haven't you heard Skkorp? Denny is a buffoon. :rolleyes:
 
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Russ Smith

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earthsci said:
One heartbeat.

I don't think he's a buffoon but I think this is a very poorly coached team and that's clearly not Mac's fault since most of his poorly coached players are gone.

Green has this team vastly improved from what he inherited, but when a guy comes in and says his #1 priority is improving the OL, and it gets worse, I blame the guy who said it was a priority.
 

earthsci

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Russ Smith said:
Green has this team vastly improved from what he inherited, but when a guy comes in and says his #1 priority is improving the OL, and it gets worse, I blame the guy who said it was a priority.
I don't have a problem with your stance Russ, or Shane's for that matter. I've come to really respect a few of the members here who have that stance, like conrad, but don't let it taint every (single frickin') thing that they say. It's more of a comment towards those that do. I hold Denny responsible for the state of the OL but I also think that he is the best coach that we've had with this team, at the very least, since Stallings.
 

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earthsci said:
I also think that he is the best coach that we've had with this team, at the very least, since Stallings.

But is that really saying much?
 

Skkorpion

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To get back to Spanky's subject, I just want Green to choose a QB and stick with him for a while.

Denny is 8-8 with McCown, 0-3 with Warner, but I don't care. Play Warner. But don't start yanking him after a shaky performance. Same with McCown.

Make a decision and give the guy confidence. Tell him he won't be yanked.
 

earthsci

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Shane H said:
But is that really saying much?
No but I think that he's better than Stallings. I believe that he will have us winning our division within the next two years.
 

Russ Smith

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earthsci said:
No but I think that he's better than Stallings. I believe that he will have us winning our division within the next two years.

I think so too but I think it could've easily been this year if he hadn't so thoroughly botched the OL situation.

To be fair we've had bad luck, injuries at LB and Rolle's injury and Davis and now Pace have really weakened our defense, but the fundamental problem on this team this year is the OL.

The problems are fixable but probably not this year and that's disappointing I expected more progress this year.
 

earthsci

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Russ Smith said:
...but the fundamental problem on this team this year is the OL.

The problems are fixable but probably not this year and that's disappointing I expected more progress this year.
I agree.
 

Mitch

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Dennis Green deserves a great deal of credit for the talent he's brought in on defense...and for putting that talent in the capable, creative hands of Clancy Pendergast.

Green brought Messers Berry, Okeafor, Moore, Kolodziej, Huff, Macklin, Tate, and Griffith in through free agency or waivers. Green drafted Dansby and Dockett. And he drafted some real good talent in Rolle and Green (neither of whom played yesterday). These acquisitions are the main reason why the Cardinals won yesterday. We saw one of the most dominating defensive performances in Cardinal history yesterday...and Green should be applauded for that.

What Green is doing with the offense is mind boggling. With McCown in the lineup the past two games, the offense has put up big numbers and shown significant progress.

The ill-advised strategy to keep mum about who the starting QB is backfired in absurd fashion yesterday. Instead of keeping the Tennessee defense off-balance, not knowing what QB they were going to face...this seemed to fire up the Titans' defense even more than normal...and they obviously decided that no matter who the QB was, they were going to bring contant heat and blanket Q and Fitz the way the Panthers did in the 4th quarter of the previous game. That Tennessee defense was extremely well prepared and extremely well motivated. And had LB Brad Kassell caught McCown's gift interception and run it back untouched for a TD...we'd likely be talking about how the Ttians' defense won the game for them, instead of the other way around.

When asked about his decision to keep mum about the QB situation by the media after the game, Green when on a "because we wanted to and we don't have to if we don't want to" rant.

Now there's word that the mum strategy is still in effect for this week.

This is an egregious mistake...being made by the coach who got burned screwing around with Josh McCown's head last year, by benching him in the hotel lobby on the eve of an away game, following a two game winning streak.

Yeah, this year Green has Kurt Warner waiting in the wings, not Shaun King. So be it. And Green is in a nearly identical situation with McCown want to bench him for sub par play even though the team won the game.

Green's got to take the bull by the horns, recognize that this strategy is hurting the team, rather than helping it...and make a decision.

Oh, and by the way, whomever the QB is...switch Reggie Wells over to center in shotgun situations and run the shotgun, so as to buy the QB those extra precious seconds to find the open receivers. If this isn't done immediately, it won't matter who is the QB...neither one of them will have the time to throw effectively.

My feeling is this: the only way to get the most out of McCown is to build him up...he won't thrive in this type of a scenario. McCown is too brittle emotionally. If he's the guy...commit to him. If not, go with Warner.

To me...if Josh can feel free to play his game and not feel guilty about playing in front of a past Super Bowl icon such as Kurt Warner now that Warner is able to play, Josh's the best choice for this football team. He throws a quicker, faster ball and his legs put a good deal of pressure on the opposing defenses.
 

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MadCardDisease said:
I agree. As bad as this line run blocks. It's pass blocking is giving McCown time to Survey the field most of the time. Wakefield with his long arms is well suited to pass blocking and has done a good job pass blocking the last couple of games.
With Warner, at least we know that he will find the open WR and get him the ball. Sure we will take a few sacks. At least they won't be for a 16 yard loss.

I think he's got a future... but he got eaten up by KVB..
 

jefftheshark

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Mitch

My feeling is this: the only way to get the most out of McCown is to build him up...he won't thrive in this type of a scenario. McCown is too brittle emotionally. If he's the guy...commit to him. If not, go with Warner.

Interesting point, but I'm thinking the opposite: McCown seems to fold when things are going his way. When Green announced last year that Josh was the starter, he became tentative and fumble prone. When he was sat down and came in from out of the cold, he played better. When trying to prove his worth and claim the starting position this year he comes out throwing the ball with authority. But when the job is securely his (yesterday) he becomes the Josh of last year.

I am not a shrink, but I think this kid is a very confused young man, and it must be driving DG up the wall.

The Shark
 

john h

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spanky1 said:
For all McCown's speed (whatever else one might say about him, he is faster than most QB's), he doesn't seem to use it to his advantage most of the time. Yesterday for example, he lost big time yardage every time he tucked the ball in and tried to scramble. My guess is that would happen versus Dallas as well. They are as quick as we are on defense.

Our O-Line is not capable of operating in a floating pocket type manner and this does not work to McCown's advantage when he needs to scramble.......and he is not a good passing QB on the run a la Favre for example.

To beat Dallas, I think we need to have Warner's vision and abilities to read the field/and a defense. Protecting an immobile QB who will only take the three step drops and look for the hot reads, allows for a "simpler" O-LIne strategy. For all our O-Lines inability with a running game, they are OK at pass blocking.

jmho

I also think we would have a better chance with Warner but I understand why Green will probably start McCown. Green would come under extreme criticism just like the last time he pulled Josh after two victories. I do think if Josh is playing poorly he will not hesitate to pull him. I am no Josh fan but if I were in Green's shoes I would probably start him also. I would not hesitate to jerk him after 1 quarter if he plays like he played last week. In either case with our running game I am not sure either guy can win unless one of them really gets hot with our receivers and we get some lucky bounces.
 

john h

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Russ Smith said:
I don't think he's a buffoon but I think this is a very poorly coached team and that's clearly not Mac's fault since most of his poorly coached players are gone.

Green has this team vastly improved from what he inherited, but when a guy comes in and says his #1 priority is improving the OL, and it gets worse, I blame the guy who said it was a priority.

DG has to accept total responsibility for this Offensive Line. What ever that makes him so be it.
 
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