Why is everyone selling out Amare?

[OldDirtMcGirt]

Barbosa and Diaw were the ones who didn't produce...just about everyone else did. I think Barbosa improves and does a better job in next year's playoffs...Diaw I'm not sure about. Is he now content with his $9mil per year deal? Will he always be passive? I have to think that a guy capable of a triple double one game...and "0-for" the next may be the one who isn't mentally tough. Amare brought it every night.

I'm not doubting that Amare doesn't show up, he definitely does, although I don't really think he's mentally tough as pointed out by Nash/Raja throughout the season. Mental toughness has alot to do with not making so many mistakes, as in all of Amare's stupid fouls that he picked up to keep him out of games. Garnett has alot more veteran savvy.

 

[sharkman]

We could still contain Duncan withouth having to sacrifice our offense.

I agree with that point...but I still don't deal Amare. Who are we bidding against? What other team has the assets to make a deal?

If you want to offer Marion, KT and picks? I'd do it...but I'd keep the NBA first teamer.

The most The Lakers could offer would be Odom and Kwame...and Minnesota would be nuts to take that over Marion and KT.

 

[dodie53]

the suns should trade for KG then..

but not for amare..

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

I agree with that point...but I still don't deal Amare. Who are we bidding against? What other team has the assets to make a deal?

If you want to offer Marion, KT and picks? I'd do it...but I'd keep the NBA first teamer.

The most The Lakers could offer would be Odom and Kwame...and Minnesota would be nuts to take that over Marion and KT.

Kevin McHale has already shown that he won't trade KG unless it's 100 cents on the dollar. I doubt he'd trade him for either of those deals.

And plus, if we dump Marion, then we need another perimeter defender ASAP. No way do I want to see Nash on Parker.

 

[Covert Rain]

The biggest difference wasn't even in the stats:

Garnett:

• 8-time All-Defensive:

• First Team: 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005
• Second Team: 2006, 2007

Stoudemire:

• Crickets

We could still contain Duncan withouth having to sacrifice our offense.

KG cannot contain Duncan. Are you serious? Have you ever watched them play against each other? Ducan eats him alive when they are matched up. KG just can't keep Duncan off the boards. KG gets us no closer to a title then Amare. Again, let's see where Amare is by his 11th year.

Kevin McHale has already shown that he won't trade KG unless it's 100 cents on the dollar. I doubt he'd trade him for either of those deals.

And plus, if we dump Marion, then we need another perimeter defender ASAP. No way do I want to see Nash on Parker.

So KM can say what he wants. He is not going to get it. He already is down a bargaining chip because of KG. Everybody knows he wants out. So if KM is smart (which is big negative against him), he either takes the best deal or lets him walk after the contract. Can the T-Wolves afford to do that? If he lets him walk out at the end of the contract, that has to be the nail in the coffin for his career as a GM.

 

[sharkman]

Kevin McHale has already shown that he won't trade KG unless it's 100 cents on the dollar. I doubt he'd trade him for either of those deals.

I agree...but value is set by the market...if McHale does nothing, he pays $22mil this year (a whopping hit)...only to lose Garnett next year for nothing.

And plus, if we dump Marion, then we need another perimeter defender ASAP. No way do I want to see Nash on Parker.

That would indeed be a huge downside...(before the lotto I was hoping for Brewer to fill that role with pick #5)...

 

[dodie53]

LB should work on his defense too..
bell can teach him..

and nash should stop helping on defense so much..

 

[Covert Rain]

I agree...but value is set by the market...if McHale does nothing, he pays $22mil this year (a whopping hit)...only to lose Garnett next year for nothing.

I so so agree. KM should ask for the world but should also be willing to come down on the asking price. He will not get equal trade value at this point. So the best deal is the smart thing to do unless you want to get nothing for him.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

Duncan does worse against Garnett than he does against Stoudemire. Against STAT, Duncan ends up getting 30 and 15 while Stoudemire plays about twenty minutes because he got into foul trouble. Nobody is going to be able to stop Duncan simply because of his talent, but Garnett can do at least as well as Kurt did if not better. And this way we don't have to sacrifice any of our offense.

As for Kevin McHale, the guy has resisted all kinds of Garnett trade offers over the years, and I'd bet good money if he doesn't get anything that's even close to fair value, then he'll just let KG walk. I wouldn't underestimate the stubbornness of an NBA GM.

And plus, I'm not really sure if Amare and KG would work. Amare has already complained about the offense not running through him, how do you think he'd fair being the third best player on the team? This could be a nightmare for our chemistry.

EDIT: And even if our chemistry would work itself out, then who would you get to replace Marion?

 

[elindholm]

Rumor mill. There are national commentators who have blown some lockerroom friction into a huge thing and assume the Suns will need to break up the team in response. There is little doubt that Amare is the most attractive player on the team (Nash has the age issue and Marion is too expensive), so they immediately put Amare into play....

Why does anyone believe this stuff? Once in a blue moon some wild rumor turns out to be true. But if you examine the odds, you've got a much much better chance winning at roulette.

I understand that you have a strong need to be patronizing at every opportunity, but this isn't quite the usual media fabrication. The friction between Stoudemire and the team is pretty well documented.

 

[elindholm]

What exactly does Amare do better than KG? Dunk? That's pretty much it.

Stoudemire has a huge advantage in getting to the free-throw line. Unlike Garnett, he is basically unstoppable once he gets good position inside. Garnett stops himself by resorting to fadeaways.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

Stoudemire has a huge advantage in getting to the free-throw line. Unlike Garnett, he is basically unstoppable once he gets good position inside. Garnett stops himself by resorting to fadeaways.

This is true. But the Spurs always leave the midrange jumper open, so that would playe right into KG's offense.

 

[elindholm]

This is true. But the Spurs always leave the midrange jumper open, so that would playe right into KG's offense.

Yes. But unlike most of this board, I think the Suns need to focus on beating 29 teams next season, not just one.

Garnett has demonstrated, throughout his career, that he's not a reliable offensive option in crunch time. That's what would concern me about a Stoudemire/Garnett trade. But obviously Garnett would make the team better in other ways.

 

[slinslin]

Man Kevin Garnett struggles offensively against the Spurs. He always struggles when he is limited to just jumpers.

Kevin Garnett would be a huge help on defense, but he would not be as helpful as Amare on offense against the Spurs because Amare is the only guy on our team that can score baskets against the Spurs whenever needed. If you think KG could replace that you are silly.

KG to the Suns great, but for a combination of players outside of Amare and Nash otherwise its not worth it.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

Yes. But unlike most of this board, I think the Suns need to focus on beating 29 teams next season, not just one.

Garnett has demonstrated, throughout his career, that he's not a reliable offensive option in crunch time. That's what would concern me about a Stoudemire/Garnett trade. But obviously Garnett would make the team better in other ways.

Eh. We can definitely beat Dallas in a seven game series (especially now). San Antonio is really the only team in the NBA that is better than we are.

And Garnett is a fine option in the Sun's system. It's just that he's been playing with a bunch of mediocre teams his whole career so that he's forced to do too much. The last thing that the Sun's need to worry about is scoring.

 

[azirish]

Eh. We can definitely beat Dallas in a seven game series (especially now). San Antonio is really the only team in the NBA that is better than we are.

And Garnett is a fine option in the Sun's system. It's just that he's been playing with a bunch of mediocre teams his whole career so that he's forced to do too much. The last thing that the Sun's need to worry about is scoring.

Scoring in the half court is still a concern. When the Spurs limited the Suns to taking contested threes, it got pretty ugly.

Still, they have a bigger problem in defense and rebounding.

 

[Forrestham]

I dont think you can question Amare's work ethic since he made a asuuccessful comback from micro fracture surgery. i am also not ready to give up on Boris yet. A year ago eh was the teams 2nd best player in the palyoffs. hes only 25 and his best years are ahead of him. i would not trad Amare for Garnett. If they hold out, the Wolves may lower their price. Just like the 76ers did for Iverson. I would not do a deal unless Garnett agrees not to opt out.

 

[azirish]

I dont think you can question Amare's work ethic since he made a asuuccessful comback from micro fracture surgery. i am also not ready to give up on Boris yet. A year ago eh was the teams 2nd best player in the palyoffs. hes only 25 and his best years are ahead of him. i would not trad Amare for Garnett. If they hold out, the Wolves may lower their price. Just like the 76ers did for Iverson. I would not do a deal unless Garnett agrees not to opt out.

At $20 million, you would just hope KG did. Only the Bobcats have more than $15 million in cap space this summer and it is rare that any contender can make even that kind of offer (the Bulls could last summer because they have mostly rookie contract guys).

 

[dodie53]

amare and others for KG - no.
marion and others for KG - yes. even if KG opts out, the suns could win a championship before KG leaves..
and KG might enjoy being a suns that will stick around longer than expected..

 

[azirish]

amare and others for KG - no.
marion and others for KG - yes. even if KG opts out, the suns could win a championship before KG leaves..
and KG might enjoy being a suns that will stick around longer than expected..

The bizzare part about a Marion and picks for Garnett deal is that the Suns could do it under the cap because he is making 75% of Garnett's salary. It would save the Wolves $6 million this year and next if KG does not opt out of his contract.

I can't imagine the Wolves doing that deal unless KG effectively forced it, but with them having a salary structure of $69 million, you never know.

 

[Covert Rain]

Duncan does worse against Garnett than he does against Stoudemire.

I would be interested to see career stats to that effect. Not to mention that Amare doesn't always play Duncan.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Whatever, I come to accept their are always a few guys who want to blow out the best player just to do it every year. I think OldMacdonald is one of these fans. What pisses me off is the absolute BS being suited about Amare as if he just dogs it all playoffs long.

Amare's on the game play was not the issue in any playoff series since I have seen him, immaturity? probably, but certainly not his play on the court, he made a huge blunder in game 4, but if Amare sits then people question his chemistry, if he jumps up to defend his teammates who "doesn't like him" then he is a dog for that too. I guess it a no win for him and it always has been.
Funny how posters get all teary eyed when they hear the stories about Barbosa and his family, while those tears blocking another attempt of Amare diving on the floor for a loose ball.
If anything Amare's career would probably be best served if he went somewhere where he actually was a focal point of the offense. It makes me sick to see guys like Barbosa and Raja Bell pumping up 25 footers will Amare just rots on the elbow, but because fan "like" these guys they get a free pass.
Did it ever occur to anyone that Raja may not like STAT because STAT represents change from Raja's dream job of launching threes and more threes?, tell me what player has made the biggest turn around in threes attempted over the past two years? Maybe Raja needs to read the book Who Moved My Cheese?

Furthermore, people find every excuse in the book to coddle Leandro Barbosa, label him untouchable what a joke. When this guy has caved in the last three seasons against the Spurs and Mavs. Did his elbow prevent him from playing any defense? Maybe the right thing to do is to have the regular season heroes who play from the outside and don't step up consistently Cough***Marion and Barbosa** shipped out? Maybe logic will prevail. I am sure Foamy will see this.

Sorry IMO the answer lies somewhere else.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

hmm Raja went from 2.1 to 5.7 to 6.1 per game. Someone likey the three ball.

Garnett gets 17 APG

Amare 12.9 APG

I think the solution could simply be, keep you players and adjust your wacky offense to feed the man down low. But that would be to damn easy wouldn't it?

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

I would be interested to see career stats to that effect. Not to mention that Amare doesn't always play Duncan.

Let's just say that there is a reason why Amare doesn't guard Duncan unless he absolutely has to.

Amare's on the game play was not the issue in any playoff series since I have seen him, immaturity? probably, but certainly not his play on the court, he made a huge blunder in game 4, but if Amare sits then people question his chemistry, if he jumps up to defend his teammates who "doesn't like him" then he is a dog for that too. I guess it a no win for him and it always has been.

I think that you're overlooking how much Amare in foul trouble hurt our chances in the series. You can chalk that one up to immaturity and mediocre defense as well.

Listen, I'm not trying to dog or hate on Amare. If Nash was 28 then this wouldn't even be an issue. But the fact is Nash is 33 with serious health concerns, and the priority should be to win now, not wait for talent that may or may not develop.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

hmm Raja went from 2.1 to 5.7 to 6.1 per game. Someone likey the three ball.

Garnett gets 17 APG

Amare 12.9 APG

I think the solution could simply be, keep you players and adjust your wacky offense to feed the man down low. But that would be to damn easy wouldn't it?

But our offense was never the issue. Even if we kept feeding Amare (which IMO might not be the best thing for his knees), we'd still be getting killed on the boards and defensively. See 2005.