Phrazbit
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In every respect Marion’s Suns career dwarfs all those guys. Stats, accolades, team success... not even close.
Why is Shawn Marion not in the Ring of Honor?
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Games played. (Should always be a factor.)
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ultimately, I'd be okay with Shawn in the ring, but I'd like to stat get in there first.
Chaplin
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And none of them also were not as unclutch as Marion was either.
Hey, I don't mind him in the Ring. I think people here are overrating him as far as how good he actually was---regardless of SSOL.
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Grant Hill was terrible against the Lakers and Manning never really played in a meaningful series because he was hurt. I would definitely say they were less clutch in the playoffs and far less important in the regular season.
Phrazbit
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Again, Marion has a bigger "clutch" moment than any of those guys.
Marion was a defender, a rebounder and a guy who feasted on scraps. He was the same guy for his entire career... he plays that way in the playoffs and it somehow makes him a choke artist. I don't get it.
When the Suns stupidly traded him they suffered severely. It took another scrapping star (Grant Hill) who was willing to do the dirty work for the Suns to contend again.
But he was also the #3 guy, at best. How clutch should a #3 option be? If he was in position to win games and take the final shot for the team then I would hope he'd deliver but that wasn't something that he was called on to do. The closest thing to un-clutch or disappointing about him in the postseason is how he'd get lit up by Dirk when the Suns faced the Mavericks. Why was Marion stuck guarding Dirk in the first place? Because Amare was an awful defender. The Suns best chance at slowing Dirk down was putting a guy 5-6 inches smaller on him and hoping for the best, all while still calling for his defender to be the primary defensive rebounder.
Marion never took the step to be a superstar but he was a great complimentary star. I would say he was a better complimentary star than others in the ROH like Chambers or Majerle. He proved he could be the #3 player on a title team, which is more than Amare could say or Nash, unfortunately. So I don't get how he's "un-clutch".
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Man, I expected a very different tone to this thread. Marion wasn't perfect, and wasn't as eloquent as other fan faves, but he played his ass off for a long time here, and was integral to the Suns being good for a long time. He's definitely worthy of the ROH.
Chaplin
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I guess you missed the playoffs when he played here. Come on! I completely understand wanting him in the ROH, 100%. But you have a bad memory if you don’t remember his poor post season performances. There were some epic discussions about it on this very board. Cheese, back me up here.
I guess you missed the playoffs when he played here. Come on! I completely understand wanting him in the ROH, 100%. But you have a bad memory if you don’t remember his poor post season performances. There were some epic discussions about it on this very board. Cheese, back me up here.
I remember him not being a difference maker in the playoffs but I didn't expect him to raise the level of play for the team or put the team on his back. He wasn't the sort of player that would win you games in the postseason or entire series. Since he couldn't really create for himself, he couldn't go off for 40+ either like a Joe Johnson or Kelly Oubre type of 3rd option.
Nobody is saying he was flawless, far from it, or even that he was a franchise centerpiece but he was a damn good player to have as part of a contending core. He wasn't Scottie Pippen but he was closer to that than he was a Trevor Ariza type of 3&D role player.
I guess you missed the playoffs when he played here. Come on! I completely understand wanting him in the ROH, 100%. But you have a bad memory if you don’t remember his poor post season performances. There were some epic discussions about it on this very board. Cheese, back me up here.
Definitely happened. Not only that but the countless bitching in post game threads about Marion falling in love with threes.
Marion was not Marion with the first two guys. That’s why I won’t be upset if he never makes it up there. Again not opposed but I am not going to petition for it either.
Chaplin
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Of course, I'm biased. I was a big Marion fan for a long time, and then the Kevin Garnett thing happened and it made my respect of him go way down.
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You mean exercising his right to veto a trade?
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Yeah. That was Marion's right and has nothing to do with his playing career in Phoenix.
Chaplin
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Not the point and you know it.
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It isn't? It sure seems like you and some others hold Marion responsible for choosing to do what he felt was in his best interests instead of putting his soon to be former employer's interests first. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, that's just the way it reads to me.
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It's the way I read it as well. I don't think Marion's career in Phoenix should be graded on him approving a trade.
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I don't either. We're fans so it's no big surprise that we see it through our own eyes and I can certainly understand fans that are disappointed that he didn't agree to that trade but doing what was right for him shouldn't have a place in the conversation for whether his play here was worthy of team recognition, IMO.
Chaplin
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I don't know about you but I want a championship. That's it. And I do know that team with Kevin Garnett and not Shawn Marion would have probably won a championship or two back then. If you disagree, then that's fine. I don't think Marion is in the same stratosphere as Garnett. And Marion couldn't handle making big decisions, which led to him vetoing the trade. So yes, I blame Marion a bit for exercising his right to veto, but ultimately taking away a good chance at a championship for Phoenix.
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You're all over the map here and none of it really applies to what I posted. Like I said, I understand those of you that choose to hold it against him but I don't see how it has any bearing whatsoever on whether or not his play as a member of this team warrants inclusion in the ROH. Personally, I'd have had more of a problem with Shawn if he'd demanded a trade, even if it led to us acquiring Garnett, than him exercising his contractual rights. That would have put him in Joe Johnson/Dragic/Dice territory for me, three players I do not view or remember fondly although I give Goran a mini-pass for his second exit.
Chaplin
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We'll agree to disagree, even with the "all over the map" comment. This isn't even worth discussing anymore.
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Don’t separate your shoulder with that reach.
Phrazbit
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I wish he'd let the trade go through but I don't blame him at all for not wanting to go play for the Timberwolves. No one wants to play for the Timberwolves.
Players are going to look out for their best interests not the best interests of their team. Do you blame them? (That was rhetorical as I can see that you do.)
