Why not DeAngelo Hall?

Dan H

ASFN Addict
Banned from P+R
Joined
Dec 1, 2002
Posts
6,146
Reaction score
5,096
Location
Circle City, IN
I've never seen him mentioned even as a possibility for the Cards to draft, yet cornerback is a glaring need. Why not trade down with Cleveland, pick Hall at 7, then draft Rashaun Woods in the second round? Or is Hall only a small bit better than any CB we could get at 33?
 

Cardiac

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
12,050
Reaction score
3,251
Dan H said:
I've never seen him mentioned even as a possibility for the Cards to draft, yet cornerback is a glaring need. Why not trade down with Cleveland, pick Hall at 7, then draft Rashaun Woods in the second round? Or is Hall only a small bit better than any CB we could get at 33?

Hall is moving up quickly on many draft boards and has the most upside of any CB in this draft. I like your idea, even if Woods is not there in the 2nd rd a quality WR will be.

The concern is that Hall would be a bit of a reach and the Cards need to be sure of whoever they take in rd 1. DG has stated they don't want developmental players but those who can start and make an impact immediately. I'm not sure if Hall is that type of player.

I prefer waiting until the 2nd rd to address the potential need of a WR but not at the cost of missing on a great player in rd1.
 

BACH

Superbowl, Homeboy!
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
6,033
Reaction score
1,637
Location
Expat in Kuala Lumpur
Dan H said:
I've never seen him mentioned even as a possibility for the Cards to draft, yet cornerback is a glaring need. Why not trade down with Cleveland, pick Hall at 7, then draft Rashaun Woods in the second round? Or is Hall only a small bit better than any CB we could get at 33?

Hall has seperated himself as the clear #1 CB in the draft and is moving up into the 7-8 range because of that. He is, however, still not considered a "blue-chip" player. We would take Winslow, Roy Williams and Sean Taylor ahead of Hall.
 

so far away

Overpaid Rookie
Joined
Mar 19, 2003
Posts
172
Reaction score
0
Location
California
Even though I believe CB is our biggest need by far, if we pick a player that will not start on opening day I'll be disappointed and I don't think Hall starts. I really don't want to have to take Fitz but atleast I wont be disappointed. I hope Oakland takes Fitz, we trade with the Giants (picking up a 3rd), and take Taylor at 4. That's a perfect world for me.
 

Renz

An Army of One
Joined
May 10, 2003
Posts
13,078
Reaction score
2
Location
lat: 35.231 lon: -111.550
Browns | Considering Hall? - from www.KFFL.com
Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:58:55 -0700

Zac Jackson, of ClevelandBrowns.com, reports the Cleveland Browns will give legitimate consideration to selecting NFL draft prospect CB DeAngelo Hall (Virginia Tech) with the No. 7 pick in the draft.
 

Stout

Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Posts
39,668
Reaction score
23,685
Location
Pittsburgh, PA--Enemy territory!
so far away said:
Even though I believe CB is our biggest need by far, if we pick a player that will not start on opening day I'll be disappointed and I don't think Hall starts. I really don't want to have to take Fitz but atleast I wont be disappointed. I hope Oakland takes Fitz, we trade with the Giants (picking up a 3rd), and take Taylor at 4. That's a perfect world for me.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. No offense to your opinion, but expecting drafted players to be solid starters from day one will continue to perpetuate our losing ways. You CANNOT hope to plug holes in your starting lineup with rookies year in and year out. You HAVE to allow them to develop. Drafting by who you hope can start right away vs. who will become the better player is insane.
 

JeffGollin

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
20,472
Reaction score
3,056
Location
Holmdel, NJ
I see the logic, but suspect that the Cards and most other teams don't quite rate him in the elite category.

My take on Hall - Has elite speed. Played CB in a big time program, pretty productive, yada yada. But there is something (maybe lack of consistent focus. Maybe that CB's are less sure-things when picked high) that apparently is dragging him down to just a smidge below the top echelon.
 

Cardiac

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
12,050
Reaction score
3,251
JeffGollin said:
I see the logic, but suspect that the Cards and most other teams don't quite rate him in the elite category.

My take on Hall - Has elite speed. Played CB in a big time program, pretty productive, yada yada. But there is something (maybe lack of consistent focus. Maybe that CB's are less sure-things when picked high) that apparently is dragging him down to just a smidge below the top echelon.


So how does Hall compare to Newman and Trufant in last years draft?
 

JeffGollin

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
20,472
Reaction score
3,056
Location
Holmdel, NJ
So how does Hall compare to Newman and Trufant in last years draft?
The sense I get from "reading around" - "Greater upside, but more iffy."
 

Savage58

Defense, Defense, DEFENSE
Joined
Jan 3, 2004
Posts
1,045
Reaction score
0
Location
Mesa, AZ
Cardiac said:
So how does Hall compare to Newman and Trufant in last years draft?

Coming out of college... I'd rate Hall either even with Trufant or a smidge ahead. He has some wicked speed, and the ability to break on the ball. He's head and shoulders ahead of all the other CBs in "this" draft, which raises his stock a bit also. I don't rate him anywhere near Newman's game though. Newman was and IS a manchild out at corner, to bad he plays for the stinkin cowgirls! :hulk:
 

Lex

troublemaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2003
Posts
2,465
Reaction score
0
Location
Scottsdale and one-eleven
DeAngelo Hall also returns kicks for touchdowns.

My question is, how did Larry Fitzgerald do AGAINST DeAngelo Hall last year?
 

azdad1978

Championship!!!!
Joined
Dec 8, 2002
Posts
14,982
Reaction score
50
Location
ordinance 2257
Lex said:
DeAngelo Hall also returns kicks for touchdowns.

My question is, how did Larry Fitzgerald do AGAINST DeAngelo Hall last year?

He made Fitz looked average that day.
 

joeshmo

Kangol Hat Aficionado
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Posts
17,247
Reaction score
1
azdad1978 said:
He made Fitz looked average that day.

8 catches for 108 yards and 1 TD made him look average. :confused:

Even if Hall wasnt on him everytime, The guy opposite of Fitz also did really good. Kris Wilson 5 catches for 111 yards and one score. I would say that Hall got schooled.
 

Lex

troublemaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2003
Posts
2,465
Reaction score
0
Location
Scottsdale and one-eleven
The reason I asked about Hall/Fitz, is because in most of the draft clips I've seen on Hall, he's effectively defensing Fitzgerald.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

The problem
Joined
Oct 7, 2003
Posts
12,717
Reaction score
6,544
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
joeshmo said:
8 catches for 108 yards and 1 TD made him look average. :confused:

Even if Hall wasnt on him everytime, The guy opposite of Fitz also did really good. Kris Wilson 5 catches for 111 yards and one score. I would say that Hall got schooled.

I believe Hall was suspended for the 1st half of that game.

Between Roy Williams, Fitzgerald, and Mike Williams, the one that fared best against NFL caliber CBs was Mike Williams. Check for yourself. That guy has owned NFL players like Marcus Trufant, Matt Ware, Vontez Duff, Jeremy Lesuerr, Shane Walton, and Ricky Manning among others.
 

joeshmo

Kangol Hat Aficionado
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Posts
17,247
Reaction score
1
MaoTosiFanClub said:
I believe Hall was suspended for the 1st half of that game.

Between Roy Williams, Fitzgerald, and Mike Williams, the one that fared best against NFL caliber CBs was Mike Williams. Check for yourself. That guy has owned NFL players like Marcus Trufant, Matt Ware, Vontez Duff, Jeremy Lesuerr, Shane Walton, and Ricky Manning among others.

2nd Half is were Fitz got most of his stats. 5 catches for 58 yards. And that is with Hall being Fresh and Fitz already playing for 2 quarters.

That is not shuting a guy down, far from it.
 

azdad1978

Championship!!!!
Joined
Dec 8, 2002
Posts
14,982
Reaction score
50
Location
ordinance 2257
joeshmo said:
2nd Half is were Fitz got most of his stats. 5 catches for 58 yards. And that is with Hall being Fresh and Fitz already playing for 2 quarters.

That is not shuting a guy down, far from it.

Teams searching for speed @CB
Tuesday, April 13, 2004


By John Clayton
ESPN.com

For the past month, Chris Gamble of Ohio State and Will Poole of Southern Cal have been behind the times. They keep running, but they can't seem to catch up to DeAngelo Hall of Virginia Tech and Dunta Robinson of South Carolina.


At stake is millions of dollars. Which is why Poole has scheduled two additional workouts -- Wednesday and Friday -- to improve horrible 40 times of 4.65 and 4.66 he ran on March 24. Gamble's plight hasn't been much better. He's tried twice and actually got worse, parlaying a 4.5 and 4.55 performance on March 12 to 4.61, 4.57 and 4.53 on April 5.


While their times haven't been good, their timing has been even worse. At the NFL annual meeting at the end of March, the league decided to make illegal contact on receivers after five yards a point of emphasis this season, meaning more flags. If a cornerback can't grab a jersey after five yards and if a cornerback can't disrupt a route with a bump after five yards, how is he going to cover all the bigger, taller receivers who are just as fast if not faster than him?


The result is that speed will be even more of an emphasis for cornerbacks than it has been in the past. The cornerback better have it.


"If you are going to play some bump-and-run coverage, you better have speed," Titans general manager Floyd Reese said. "You can't play true bump-and-run anymore if you can't run fast. That should help the receivers coming in. One of the toughest things for first-year receivers to do is get off the jam. The cornerback is not going to do that if you don't have true speed. They are probably going to have to end up playing in more Cover 2 zones."


But this class of cornerbacks isn't fast. Little did scouts know that performances at the Scouting Combine in Indianapolis told the tale of the cornerback class of 2004. Hall ran a 4.37 40, Robinson a 4.34. Joey Thomas of Montana State came in with a 4.4 and established himself as a sleeper pick for the second round. Ahmad Carroll of Arkansas came in at 4.34.


Like most years, many of the other top prospects decided to run at their schools on their own turf, taking the extra month to train and try to impress scouts, coaches and general managers. So far, that strategy hasn't worked. Derrick Strait of Oklahoma ran a 4.55 and a 4.52. Poole and Gamble struggled.


As it turned out, a cornerback who wasn't even invited to the combine, Shawntae Spencer of Pitt, shot up the charts by running a 4.48 and a 4.5 and further impressed everyone with a 10.5 in the long shuttle. He's in the process of visiting 17 teams for physicals and could be a sleeper who could slip into the low first round.


Teams already are reacting. Faced with the prospects of taking Gamble with the 17th choice, Bengals coach Marvin Lewis traded down seven spots, picking up Deltha O'Neal from the Broncos along with a fourth-round choice. The Saints, initially scheduled to pick one spot lower at No. 18, faced the same questions. Do you focus your first-round cornerback need on a player who can't crack the 4.5 in the 40?


The Saints answered their question by trading a fifth-round choice for Jaguars cornerback Jason Craft and putting him in the mix to compete against Ashley Ambrose for a starting spot. Now, the Saints don't have to address their cornerback needs in the first round.


Cornerbacks, by nature, are a confident lot. Hall was that way at the scouting combine, and he has a right to be. He had no problem running in the RCA Dome, which for years has been trying to improve the artificial surface to make players feel as though they can get good times.


"You see a lot of corners who are small and can't run," the 5-10, 202 pound Hall said. "I'm just the total package. I'm a big corner, can run and (I'm) real physical, and I think that's what a lot of the scouts like."


Scouts indeed loved what they saw. Speed is speed. He could go as high as the seventh or eighth choice in the draft, but Hall established himself as the top cornerback at the combine and no one has caught up. He won't slip past the Texans with the No. 10 choice. Robinson, meanwhile, could have locked up the No. 12 spot with the Jets and could go even higher if Hall slips into the top eight.


Hall has the make-up speed that will be necessary to adjust to next season's rule emphasis on contact. He also has impressive tape to back it up. In the Big East, he went against Larry Fitzgerald of Pitt.


"I did real good, holding him to two catches for seven yards," Hall said of his game against Fitzgerald. "I didn't play the first half because I got suspended because of the Miami game. But when I came in to face him in the second half, he had two catches for 7 yards."


Hall knew that was a money game. Fitzgerald's route running was already legendary. Fitzgerald was five inches taller and 23 pounds heavier, a perfect preview of what Hall was going to face in the NFL. He knew this was a big game for him.


"I had heard the stories about how fast he was but I really wasn't expecting that kind of speed that he came off the line with," Hall said. "But as the game progressed, I was able to adjust to him and be able to play him. You just have to be patient. A lot of receivers want to dance at the line of scrimmage and you can't pick a side. You just have to be patient when they're dancing and just get your hands on them and slow them down."


The hand stuff has to go after five yards, but Hall knows and so do the scouts that he matches up against top receivers. The difference between a cornerback who is two-tenths of a second faster than the others is that the Halls and Robinsons can play the bump-and-run and press coverages because they have the extra makeup speed. If they can jam the taller receivers at the line of scrimmage and then be able to bounce back and run along side of them with the make-up speed, they will be successful.


Gamble's inability to get into the 4.4s may knock him out of the first 15. Poole, meanwhile, needs a great time to prevent himself from going into the second or third round.


What teams know is it's a tough conversion for rookie cornerbacks coming from college. Ask Bears cornerback Charles Tillman, who led the league with seven interference calls. Tillman got most of his calls in the first half of the season before he settled down and established himself as one of the better corners from last year's draft. According to Stats Inc., 21 cornerbacks surrendered five or more touchdowns last season. Three were rookies -- Sammy Davis of the Chargers, Rashean Mathis of the Jaguars and Marcus Trufant of the Seahawks.


Three rookies -- Trufant, Davis and Terence Newman of the Cowboys -- had the most passes thrown on them, according to Stats Inc. And those three corners had speed.


Members of the Competition Committee will tell you the contact emphasis against cornerbacks will only affect the extreme cases such as the physical play of the Patriots corners or the grabbing and constant contact of the Dolphins corners. But rookies are rookies. They get flagged and they get burned.


For this draft, the ones with speed have increased value. The corners lacking the closing speed will fall.

John Clayton is a senior NFL writer for ESPN.com.
__________________
Someone Commits a wrong, a wrong is commited against them in return. that comes out right...
 

joeshmo

Kangol Hat Aficionado
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Posts
17,247
Reaction score
1
azdad1978 said:

Hall has the make-up speed that will be necessary to adjust to next season's rule emphasis on contact. He also has impressive tape to back it up. In the Big East, he went against Larry Fitzgerald of Pitt.

"I did real good, holding him to two catches for seven yards," Hall said of his game against Fitzgerald. "I didn't play the first half because I got suspended because of the Miami game. But when I came in to face him in the second half, he had two catches for 7 yards."

"I had heard the stories about how fast he was but I really wasn't expecting that kind of speed that he came off the line with," Hall said. "But as the game progressed, I was able to adjust to him and be able to play him. You just have to be patient. A lot of receivers want to dance at the line of scrimmage and you can't pick a side. You just have to be patient when they're dancing and just get your hands on them and slow them down."



That is just Hall trying to pimp himself. You notice how Hall said he did that not the reporter. I think he was taliking about the first Pitt set of downs in the 3rd quarter not the whole 2nd half.

Here is Fitz catch by catch stats in the 2nd half.(My original stats in the 2nd half was wrong I forgot to add one catch and 4 yards)

1 catch for 3 yards(Hall was covering in Man coverage)

1 catch for 4 yards(Hall was covering in Man coverage)

1 catch for 9 yards(Hall was covering in Man Coverage)

1 catch for 6 yards(motioned to mismatch against some other dude)

1 catch for 28 yards(Hall Was covering in Man coverage, Fitz just made a great catch)

1 catch for 12 yards(Hall was covering in zone coverage)

I still have the film on Fitz game against Hall. I have all of the games Pitt played last year(I grew up in Pitt and still my favorite team). plus Hall used his hands a lot, he cant do that in the NFL especially with the crack down on the 5 yard rule.
 
Last edited:
Top